Politics & Stuff

[CHOULO19 24,332]

The republican debates are great comedy central material, though the democrats with cyborg Clinton and a few non-figures aren't that much better. Pitty Sanders doesn't stand a chance.

On another note, don't want to be impolite but are you really Lebanese? (some people on here 'carry' flags just because they like their appearance) Cause I was wondering about the current situation there under Hezbollah and how the war in Syria and the migrant crisis are felt. Coverage about Lebanon has always been contradictory, though R.Fisk, who lives there too, manages to shed a more 'positive' light.

Trust me, mate. No one chooses to be Lebanese, they're usually just doomed to be!

Tell me, what do you wish to know?

To be fair the migrant crisis is hardly 'felt' by ordinary people. I mean why would it, they're just people like everyone else who even share the same language and pretty similar culture. It did however cause some disgusting racism from mainstream political parties. But even that has mostly died down 3-4 years into the 'crisis'. But it is felt very much as a crisis by the grossly underfunded NGOs and people who are scrambling to provide something that resembles basic human rights to the poorest of those refugees.

Economically the situation was already terrible to begin with. We are just NOW feeling the full effect of the 09 crisis as Lebanon depended enormously on the money brought into the country by Lebanese people living abroad. We have no industrial sector and the agricultural one is in constant deficit. We rely on tourism and Arabian gulf money and both have dried up considering the situation in the region.

Let's just say that Robert Fisk is a.......'unique' man.

[iseah100 5,612]

The republican debates are great comedy central material, though the democrats with cyborg Clinton and a few non-figures aren't that much better. Pitty Sanders doesn't stand a chance.

On another note, don't want to be impolite but are you really Lebanese? (some people on here 'carry' flags just because they like their appearance) Cause I was wondering about the current situation there under Hezbollah and how the war in Syria and the migrant crisis are felt. Coverage about Lebanon has always been contradictory, though R.Fisk, who lives there too, manages to shed a more 'positive' light.

Whoa whoa whoa. Who says Sanders doesn't stand a chance? #FeelTheBern

[herzogian 148]

Trust me, mate. No one chooses to be Lebanese, they're usually just doomed to be!

Tell me, what do you wish to know?

To be fair the migrant crisis is hardly 'felt' by ordinary people. I mean why would it, they're just people like everyone else who even share the same language and pretty similar culture. It did however cause some disgusting racism from mainstream political parties. But even that has mostly died down 3-4 years into the 'crisis'. But it is felt very much as a crisis by the grossly underfunded NGOs and people who are scrambling to provide something that resembles basic human rights to the poorest of those refugees.

Economically the situation was already terrible to begin with. We are just NOW feeling the full effect of the 09 crisis as Lebanon depended enormously on the money brought into the country by Lebanese people living abroad. We have no industrial sector and the agricultural one is in constant deficit. We rely on tourism and Arabian gulf money and both have dried up considering the situation in the region.

Let's just say that Robert Fisk is a.......'unique' man.

Our conversation suddenly became very topical since there just was a deadly bombing in Beirut.Hope everything is ok and that there aren't too many casualties.

That's also what I wanted to ask you about actually, the political situation. Is sectarian violence between Shia and Sunni also a big issue in Lebanon? And what do you think about Hezbollah? Though it is a recognized and participating political party in your country , countries like the USA, France and the Netherlands classified it as a terrorist organisation. How is this viewed in Lebanon? At last, what do you think about their involvement in the Syrian civil war ?

[herzogian 148]

Whoa whoa whoa. Who says Sanders doesn't stand a chance? #FeelTheBern

Sadly Clinton has al the money and media behind her while they're doing everything they can to frame Sanders as an old, weak and crazy leftie who has zero credibilty.

[iseah100 5,612]

Sadly Clinton has al the money and media behind her while they're doing everything they can to frame Sanders as an old, weak and crazy leftie who has zero credibilty.

They can try all they want. With social media and othwr websites (reddit, tumblr, etc.) They know the truth. I honestly think Bernie will win. Trump is destroying the Republican party and Clinton is a snake. Bernie has the average blue collar worker behind him.

[Spike 12,049]

They can try all they want. With social media and othwr websites (reddit, tumblr, etc.) They know the truth. I honestly think Bernie will win. Trump is destroying the Republican party and Clinton is a snake. Bernie has the average blue collar worker behind him.

Ohhh, hahahahahaha.

Haaaaa.

lol

Good times. Thanks for that hearty laugh.

[iseah100 5,612]

Ohhh, hahahahahaha.

Haaaaa.

lol

Good times. Thanks for that hearty laugh.

You never say anything positivie. You like disagreeing me.

[Stingray 9,441]

You never say anything positivie. You like disagreeing me.

He thinks you are a ginger [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

[iseah100 5,612]

He thinks you are a ginger [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

That's more offensive to me than him calling me a wetback. That hurts.

[Spike 12,049]

You never say anything positivie. You like disagreeing me.

You do it to yourself by listing website like tumblr and reddit.

[iseah100 5,612]

You do it to yourself by listing website like tumblr and reddit.

Reddit has articles from non biased sources. I don't fux with tumblr. Bernie will win. Watch.

[Spike 12,049]

Reddit has articles from non biased sources. I don't fux with tumblr. Bernie will win. Watch.

Reddit also has a board that was dedicated to interfering with a police investigation that forced the FBI to release information on the Boston Bombings earlier than they wanted.

"I-it was this guy! He has been missing for days! Let's continue this witch hunt! We did it reddit!"

Turns out the guy they fingered as the culprit killed himself several days earlier and all they did was fuck everything up for everyone.

Ahh, fuck reddit. the only good part of it is the porn.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Our conversation suddenly became very actual since there just was a deadly bombing in Beirut.Hope everything is ok and that there aren't too many casualties.

That's also what I wanted to ask you about actually, the political situation. Is sectarian violence between Shia and Sunni also a big issue in Beirut? And what do you think about Hezbollah? Though it is a recognized and participating political party in your country , countries like the USA, France and Netherlands classified it as a terrorist organisation. How is this viewed in Lebanon? At last, what do you think about their involvement in the Syrian civil war ?

Sigh.....Honestly I'm still in shock at the moment. This is the worst atrocity to hit the country since the Israeli assault in 2006. I want to joke and say you knew something and didn't tell me but the magnitude of the crime is just too much....sigh.

Politically, Lebanon has always been a sectarian country. Naturally there have been shockwaves of the sectarian divide in the region but generally nothing violent, just political. There have been some exceptions like rounds of violence between Islamic extremists and Alawites (technically not Shias but close) in Tripoli but most of the violence has been either directed towards the Lebanese army or towards civilians like was the case today.

What I think of Hizbollah is not a question that can be answered simply. I've talked before in this thread about what I think of labeling Hizbollah as terrorists. To begin with, the term itself is not one that I understand nor can find consistent meaning for. So give me your definition of a terrorist organization and I'll try to define them accordingly. As for my own opinion of them, I wrote this a couple of years ago on here in response to a similar question and it still stands mostly true:

This might be a little longer than you wanted, so I apologize for that, but it's a tricky subject that needs explaining if you're not from the region. I'll try to be as objective as possible.

Hezboullah started back in 1982 during the (second) Israeli invasion of Lebanon. They started as a religious extremist group. Not quite as bad as Al Qaeda, but not that far off, tbh. They forced people in the area they had under control to do as they want. But then again 1982 was in the middle of the Lebanese civil war and each militia was doing the exact same thing to the areas they had under their control. It's that just for Hezboullah it had a religious spin on it.

In the 90s, after the civil war ended (well the fighting ended, the civil has been ongoing since the 1840s), they were steadily becoming less "extreme". The Lebanese society is a very diverse one and everyone has to accept the other as no one can cancel anyone out. In fact, right now, if you take into account some of the religious extremist Qaeda-like groups we currently have, then Hezboullah is one of the more moderate religious groups. But they are an armed group, not just a political party.

During the 90s, they also became the only major side fighting against Israel here in Lebanon with the diminishing role of the Palestinians here and the secular armed parties. They had a couple of wars with Israel during the 90s and many monthly-basis missions up until the year 2000 when they managed to force Israel out of most of the south of Lebanon which they were still occupying since 1982. Some say that the Israelis retreated by themselves, other say Hezboullah forced them. I honestly have no idea which is true. But that triumph (along with the death of Hafez Al Asad and being succeeded by Bachar) gave Hezboullah some real backing from Syria and Iran and they now had some serious weapons at their disposal. We're talking about more than 50,000 short and medium range missiles at the very least estimate along with advanced anti-tank weapons (and we even saw a glimpse of anti-ships weapons in 2006).

This is where the US real issues with Hezboullah began. They were now a genuine threat to Israel and can change the 'equation' in the region. Before 2000, they would launch every month a few Katyusha missiles; half of them would miss and land inside Lebanon and the other half would cause panic and forest fires in Israel at worst. But this was no longer the case as became evident during the 2006 war. Hezboullah, with no more than 4-5 men in each village, managed to keep the Israelis out for more than 33 days while they fired thousands of missiles on Israel non-stop. This is when the US started really working on destroying the image of Hezboullah in Europe and in the Arab world.

In the internal issues, I have many problems with Hezboullah. For starters they are a sectarian party (as are all 'effective' parties in Lebanon). I do not share their beliefs nor do I belong to their ideology. But I accept that they are a large of the Lebanese demography and they completely accept that there are people that don't belong in their demography as well. But when it comes fighting Israel, let's just say that we were Israel's play-toy until Hezboullah came along. I have no doubt that the moment they give up their weapons, the Israeli army will be on Lebanese soil again.

The people who are with Hezboullah have a reputation of being religious, but they also have a reputation of being very polite, honest and incredibly organized (as a party and even a militia they are organized the extent that it's actually scary!).

As for the terrorist part, whenever someone says that I remember something from the 2006 war. Like all of those who live in the southern suburb of Beirut, I was forced out of my home to a safer area. But we would still go home at times to get clothes and stuff from our house and so that Dad can check on his store (I think we went 3 or 4 time during the 33 days). One of those time, we had to park the car far from the house because there were literally buildings collapsed in the middle of the streets. Hezboullah had left some of their people in the area to keep an eye on everything and stop anyone from robbing the vacant houses. Two of those guys were helping us to get to our house and urging us to get done quickly because it was not safe. We passed by the entrance of a building where a stray dog has gotten him self locked in with the gate shut. The poor guy must have been starving. So the Hezboullah guys opened the gate for him and gave him a can of canned meat which was probably supposed to be part of their lunch that day ( I later learned that those two guys got killed after a building was brought down on them). And coincidentally, that same day happened to be the day that an Israeli plane had destroyed two Red Cross vehicles that were transporting over 20 women and children from a village in the south killing them all. Then Rice has the nerve to come out and say that Israel are fighting the terrorist Hezboullah. Lmao.

PS: I'm too lazy to proof read this so sorry for any mistakes

Shortly, military wise in terms of resisting Israeli assaults the resistance has a near unanimous support from the people that goes well beyond political, ideological and even national barriers. In terms on internal politics Hezbollah has become part of the corrupt sectarian system in Lebanon (although not quite good at it as the rest of them).

As for the involvement in the Syrian civil war, it was done for selfish reasons. They did it to preserve their main weapons supply rout, a strong ally and the strength of the so called resistance axis. They were not motivated by the best interest of the country and its people. That said, in a purely practical sense their involvement has had a positive effect on the country to first and foremost secure the border which was taken by takfiri jihadis including several Lebanese villages (a Lebanese village called Arsal is still till now under Qaeda and ISIS rule) and to actually stop the actual war from spilling over into Lebanon and from turning into another Iraq which was an actual possibility. In a geo-strategic sense, as a multi-cultural and religion country our best interest is in Bashar Assad staying power. However the actual involvement cannot be justified neither morally nor legally. At the end of the end of the day they are still supporting a tyrant and a war criminal.

How this is viewed in Lebanon is only through the lens of one side or the other of the fighting in Syria because in Lebanon every political party is either with the regime or the rebels. So normally the criticism from their pro-gulf pro-USA opposition in Lebanon is invalid as those forces themselves helped fund and arm the Islamist extremists in Syria.

Apologies for the probably incoherent and poorly written post. As I said, I'm still in a bit of a shock to be completely honest.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

And of course the western media headlines the suicide bombing of one the poorest and most crowded market places in Lebanon resulting in the death of 43 civilians and the injuring of over 200 as "Bomb hits Hezbollah stronghold".... go figure.

[iseah100 5,612]

Reddit also has a board that was dedicated to interfering with a police investigation that forced the FBI to release information on the Boston Bombings earlier than they wanted.

"I-it was this guy! He has been missing for days! Let's continue this witch hunt! We did it reddit!"

Turns out the guy they fingered as the culprit killed himself several days earlier and all they did was fuck everything up for everyone.

Ahh, fuck reddit. the only good part of it is the porn.

That's one subreddit. There are intelligent posts on there. It's not as bad as 4chan, not perfect, but not as terrible as you're making it out to be.

[Spike 12,049]

That's one subreddit. There are intelligent posts on there. It's not as bad as 4chan, not perfect, but not as terrible as you're making it out to be.

I'm sorry senpai

[iseah100 5,612]

I'm sorry senpai

Que?

[herzogian 148]

First of all, thank you for your insightful and again very nuanced answers. Looking back at my initial post it gives away the stereotipical way in how I view countries in the Middle-East and how I put every country there under the same umbrella. I considered such bombings to be an everyday thing which of course they are not. I can not even begin to fathom how shocked everyone is and what this means for your country. I sincerely hope this will remain 'just' an isolated incident.

To begin with, the term itself is not one that I understand nor can find consistent meaning for.

Regarding terrorism, you're right it is a very dubious term. Even the United Nations has struggled to come up with a good and sound definition. Propably one of the reasons is that some definitions would also include Israel or the USA themselves as terrorist organisations. To answer with a cliché: one man's terrorist is another man's freedomfighter. If I read your assesement, in a sense, this also is the case in Lebanon. Hizbollah started and grew stronger as a reaction to the war(s) with Israel and this, obviously, also is the reason why Israel and its allies want to view it as a terrorist organisation. Always easier to have public opinion behind you when you can frame your enemy as a terrorist, the same is happening in Turkey right now with the PKK.

Regarding framing Hizbollah, or even broader in this case, Lebanese people as terrorists, this short story which maybe will interest you:

In Belgium there is a famous political activist and columnist of Lebanese orginin, Dyab Abou Jajah, who during the war in 2006 went to Lebanon to help. Though he was allready a contested figure in our country, due to the fact he doesn't exactly mince his words, upon his return the far right, Vlaams Belang, used his involvement in that war as a way to frame him as a extremist to take away his Belgium citizenship. Luckily thing cleared out and he is now quite a respected talkshowhost and columnist in our country.

This is not how the story ends however. Just recently with the elections of a new Labour leader some media used a meeting between Jeremy Corbyn, Jajah and Lebanese MP Hussein Hajj Hassan as a way to frame Corbyn as a dangerous fool who deals with terrorist organisations. Since Jajah is a rather well-known figure in Belgium this story was debunked quite rapidly but a lot of people fell for it and still believe it.