Politics & Stuff

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 14/11/2012 at 19:25, incometax said:

Israel only fires back in retaliation.

This actually made me laugh.

First, those 120 rockets cause next to no damage while the Israeli has resulted in the deaths of tens of civilians, mostly women and children. There is no war between two sides simply because there is absolutely no balance in the power.

The notion that Israel only retaliates is completely ridiculous. Here is a quick history lesson: Only a hundred years ago Israel did not exist and the parents of the current inhabitants were scattered all over the world and had no idea that they were Israelians (not a word, but you get what I mean). On came the British colonization of Palestine after WWI and, urged on by a group of people in powerful places who called them selves Zionists, started bringing Jews from all over the world to live in Palestine. In 1948, armed and funded mainly by the US, these Zionists kicked out most of the original unarmed inhabitants and declared the state of Israel. The people who were kicked out went to neighboring Arab countries where they were and still are forced to live in large camps that lack basic living necessities like schools and hospitals; they have no right to own estates and businesses and have little chance of employment. The rest of the Palestinians, aided by some Arabic countries, started a war against Israel to reclaim their land. 64 years later and countless western interventions in the middle east and all of the Arabic countries have stopped supporting the Palestinian cause and those people have stopped fighting for their and are now just fighting to preserve whatever land and basic human rights they have left. They do so using light weapons that are more than 30 years old and locally manufactured missiles that are as likely of hitting their target as I am to sleeping with Angelina Jolie. So, No. Israel is not retaliating because they are the invaders and they are the ones who forced those civilians to bare arms to defend themselves.

And yes, let's call the people trapped in a small over-populated province that has been under siege for years with no fuel or food entering it, let's call them terrorist. And of course the guys bringing down buildings on their inhabitants and who have the most weapons of mass destruction in the world, they are the good guys, no doubt.

[Kieran. 6,317]

http://rememberthese...member2000.html

RIP. :'(

Fuck Israel. Nothing against Israelis, but I can't stand the fucking terror state.

[incometax 116]

  On 14/11/2012 at 20:49, CHOULO19 said:

This actually made me laugh.

First, those 120 rockets cause next to no damage while the Israeli has resulted in the deaths of tens of civilians, mostly women and children. There is no war between two sides simply because there is absolutely no balance in the power.

The notion that Israel only retaliates is completely ridiculous. Here is a quick history lesson: Only a hundred years ago Israel did not exist and the parents of the current inhabitants were scattered all over the world and had no idea that they were Israelians (not a word, but you get what I mean). On came the British colonization of Palestine after WWI and, urged on by a group of people in powerful places who called them selves Zionists, started bringing Jews from all over the world to live in Palestine. In 1948, armed and funded mainly by the US, these Zionists kicked out most of the original unarmed inhabitants and declared the state of Israel. The people who were kicked out went to neighboring Arab countries where they were and still are forced to live in large camps that lack basic living necessities like schools and hospitals; they have no right to own estates and businesses and have little chance of employment. The rest of the Palestinians, aided by some Arabic countries, started a war against Israel to reclaim their land. 64 years later and countless western interventions in the middle east and all of the Arabic countries have stopped supporting the Palestinian cause and those people have stopped fighting for their and are now just fighting to preserve whatever land and basic human rights they have left. They do so using light weapons that are more than 30 years old and locally manufactured missiles that are as likely of hitting their target as I am to sleeping with Angelina Jolie. So, No. Israel is not retaliating because they are the invaders and they are the ones who forced those civilians to bare arms to defend themselves.

And yes, let's call the people trapped in a small over-populated province that has been under siege for years with no fuel or food entering it, let's call them terrorist. And of course the guys bringing down buildings on their inhabitants and who have the most weapons of mass destruction in the world, they are the good guys, no doubt.

Its no big suprise you will distort facts and history to slander the state of israel. As your country plunges into the depths of patheticness, Israel rises stronger in inovation, science, technology, and liberal democracy. This must eat you up at night. Firstly there have been jews living in what is modern day Israel for thousdands of years. Secondly Palestine is a latin word not arab and that was the name the british gave it because they controlled the land. After world war 2, jews realized "oh shit we need a homeland to defend ouselfs", they mass migrated to their ORIGINAL homeland as the british finnaly enacted on the balfour declaration which had been lingering around for a while. The balfour declartion split the land between the jews and arabs, but the arabs said no and jews said yes. The second israel claimed indepenence they were attacked by the neighbouring arab countries; to make a long story short the arabs were humiliated. Flash foward to the 1967 war, the arabs come back and attack israel and get humilated again, and on top of that israel took over the golem heights, west bank and a big chunk of egypt and a few other small pieces. Again they took over the land where the arabs had invaded/attacked Israel from. Israel eventualy gave back alot of the land as concensions for peace, except maintained control of the west bank b/c arabs kept using that to fire rockets onto israel. While this is happening jews in middle east were forced to leave and most absorbed in Israel, but palestineans(aka just southern syrians) stayed in the west bank because they had no choice. If they left to neighbooring arab countires they were not aloud citizenship in the country, nor healthcare or educational rights. In the biggest stroke of irony palestinains are aloud that in Israel. There are many arabs in israel that are members of parliment, and it was even an arab judge that sentenced a former Israeli Prime Minster to jail for a rape charge. Anyways back on track Israel never invaded an arab country and stole land. This is false, they took the land that was rightfully divided for them by the current hosts(england!) of the land.However since then the west bank has been "occupied" since 1967 but only becasue arabs kept firing rockets into israel from there. Heres a video I stumbled upon that explains the west bank a bit more clearly.

Anyways fastwording to today. If your country was constantly under threat you would be screaming for action and protection. I think the jews have shown remarkable control in not retaliating even stronger. As for this notion that hamas rockets dont do any damage to israel is ridicioulus. Israeli's only have 15 seconds to get to a bunker when a siren goes off. Why would they need to do that if the rockets did no dmg???? Secondly Israel is very carefull when it fires back to not harm civilians but the nature of hamas is to fire from schools and hospitals. The main difference is, if Israel does kill a child or woman, it is an error that is vigrously studied to not happen again, but if hamas kills a woman or child in Israel it is a celabrated success.

I am getting all this from the book "Son of Hammas".

http://www.amazon.ca/Son-Hamas-Gripping-Political-Unthinkable/dp/1414333072

This is the story of a man who was dubbed the next leader of Hamas but saw the light and exposes all about the terror and disgrace to human rights Hamas is.

Oh btw this is in the hamas charter:

'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will

obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.'

nice ppl eh?

[incometax 116]

Its funny that one of the reasons hamas shoots rockets into israel, knowing israel will respond, is to than defame them and labell them as agressors in the internatonal community. Its the only tool they have vs israel. Its convient that pali's are always looking for a picture perfect shot to than post on internet or twitter to make israel look bad. Heres my evidence of their attempted provkation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHHQArtFxOA

Palestine refuses to reconize jewish state and our brought up to hate and always fight israel(the entire west by extension). Just look how indoctornated the children are. Tell me again who the aggressors are?

[incometax 116]

  On 14/11/2012 at 20:52, KieranVogel said:

http://rememberthese...member2000.html

RIP. :'(

Fuck Israel. Nothing against Israelis, but I can't stand the fucking terror state.

Can you detail to me what exactly consistutes Israel as a terror state, rather than linking this website anyone could of made?

[Azpinator 2,325]

  On 14/11/2012 at 22:20, incometax said:

but palestineans(aka just southern syrians) stayed in the west bank because they had no choice. If they left to neighbooring arab countires they were not aloud citizenship in the country, nor healthcare or educational rights.

I don't want to get into the whole thing but just for the record, Palestinians are not "just southern Syrians". Palestinians have almost the same accent to most Jordanians and far more alike than Southern Syrians'. And I know many of Palestinian (even Iraqi) people that live in my country, now they may not have citizenship, but we went to the same school for example, all equal. My country treats those people like any other Syrian.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Really pointless to get into this stuff on here. Nobody is going to change their minds about it. Better off sticking to football!!

[Rmpr 8,977]

  On 14/11/2012 at 23:05, TorontoChelsea said:

Really pointless to get into this stuff on here. Nobody is going to change their minds about it. Better off sticking to football!!

Well, actually this is the place to talk about it. I agree though, neither side is saint nor is totally right, pointless discussion.

[Spike 12,049]

  On 14/11/2012 at 20:49, CHOULO19 said:

The notion that Israel only retaliates is completely ridiculous. Here is a quick history lesson: Only a hundred years ago Israel did not exist and the parents of the current inhabitants were scattered all over the world and had no idea that they were Israelians (not a word, but you get what I mean).

Israel/Judea has existed almost as long as the jews themselves. The jews themselves being the original inhabitants. Buuuut, in saying that they conquered over 2500 years ago and Israel/Judea hasn't really been Jewish since. Besides, what a Jew is has evolved in those years, what once was a country, ethnicity and religion all rolled into one has changed immensly. Since, so much has changed concerning what a Jew is, I don't believe they have the right to the land, but they definfintely were the first inhabitants.

I don't agree with what either the Israeli or the Palenstine governments does or plans to do. The are both terrible, reggardless of retaliation, aggression, which side has the most guns, etc. They both do terrible things to eachother and I can't see why people would want to side with one or the other. There is no moral victor, no moral supperiority, just violence.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

You know the tragically funny thing about Isreal-Palestine?

If Israel had just abide by the boundaries set out to them, which the Palestinians were in favor of, this could have all been avoided. The fact that Palestine is not even recognized as a country is disgraceful. Free Palestine. Free Kashmir. Free Africa.

[Blue-in-me-Veins 4,067]

  On 14/11/2012 at 23:14, Rmpr said:

Well, actually this is the place to talk about it. I agree though, neither side is saint nor is totally right, pointless discussion.

i wouldn't call it pointless. Even if opinions dont change and each side has its faults.

[Kieran. 6,317]

  On 15/11/2012 at 01:15, LDN Blue said:

You know the tragically funny thing about Isreal-Palestine?

If Israel had just abide by the boundaries set out to them, which the Palestinians were in favor of, this could have all been avoided. The fact that Palestine is not even recognized as a country is disgraceful. Free Palestine. Free Kashmir. Free Africa.

FACT.

[Muzchap 8,966]

Unfortunately it's Britains fault historically - as with so many other problems post Great era.

Until both sides learn to negotiate there will be no end to this mindless violence and needless death.

If Israel are provoked they will respond!

Whoever decided the best form of negotation is a rocket is to blame!

Firing rockets to change a situation will do nothing but escalate.

If both sides are serious about this, they need to sit down and determine reasonable objectives. Israel already relocated 9000+ people and changed the boundary, this still wasn't good enough - time for a reality check!

Israel could flatten Palestine, but won't because of international pressure, every single country in the world has been invaded and borders changed - it's just an arbitrary process - just deal with what you have, focus on improving your people's lives instead of spending the money on weapons!

[CHOULO19 24,332]

@incometax, there is no hope that we will agree on anything so I won't reply to your many many historical and logical mistakes. But just for the record, my state might not be leading the world in technology and 'democracy' ( ) but at least we don't kill innocent children and women and if Israel is represents 'innovation' then you can shove innovation up your ass.

  On 14/11/2012 at 23:18, Spike Spiegel said:

Israel/Judea has existed almost as long as the jews themselves. The jews themselves being the original inhabitants. Buuuut, in saying that they conquered over 2500 years ago and Israel/Judea hasn't really been Jewish since. Besides, what a Jew is has evolved in those years, what once was a country, ethnicity and religion all rolled into one has changed immensly. Since, so much has changed concerning what a Jew is, I don't believe they have the right to the land, but they definfintely were the first inhabitants.

I don't agree with what either the Israeli or the Palenstine governments does or plans to do. The are both terrible, reggardless of retaliation, aggression, which side has the most guns, etc. They both do terrible things to eachother and I can't see why people would want to side with one or the other. There is no moral victor, no moral supperiority, just violence.

That is very true. To add even more, most of the original Jew inhabitants turned Christian when Jesus arrived and then most of those converted to Islam after Mohammed. It is true that there were still Jews in Palestine a hundred years ago, but they were a minority. So most of the descendants of the original inhabitants of Israel were, rather ironically, killed and exiled from Israel in 1948. The Jew immigration to Palestine during the British colonization era is a well documented fact, denying it is beyond delusional.

As for taking sides, well I personally had little choice. You can't really not take sides when your countries gets invaded every other year and people you know get killed. Israel occupied the south of Lebanon for about 20 years, they even reached and occupied Beirut in 1982. They had huge prison camp to torture and kill anyone they didn't like. Up until 2006, Israel would come into Lebanon, kidnap people, assassinate other, and blow up buildings on almost a monthly basis. And when the people being killed, tortured and blown are relatives or friends, you tend to side against the people killing them.

Though the situation has changed since Iran started backing and arming the Islamic resistance in Lebanon. They created what is called a 'balance of terror'. No one in the middle east can ever match up to Israel's fire power, but what that basically means is that they are afraid of Hizbullah's missiles as much as we are afraid of their aircrafts, warships, and highly advanced missiles...cowards

[Fulham Broadway 17,114]

A lull from the inevitable slaughter of Palestinians coming-

Thought for the day ;

A third of the world’s entire food supply could be saved by reducing waste – or enough to feed 3 billion people.

In Australia it is estimated that food waste makes up half of that country’s landfill

[Rmpr 8,977]

  On 15/11/2012 at 17:24, Fulham Broadway said:

Thought for the day ;

A third of the world’s entire food supply could be saved by reducing waste – or enough to feed 3 billion people.

In Australia it is estimated that food waste makes up half of that country’s landfill

We produce enough food to feed 11 billion people by UN prameters of nutrients necessary for one day of normal life.

[Kieran. 6,317]

$30 Billion of US Aid will be going to Israel. I am so sorry Palestine...:'(

[BlueLyon 9,359]

War is only a way to make lot of profit. Nothing else. Innocent always take the short way. Fuck governments!