Politics & Stuff

[Amblève. 4,995]

War is only a way to make lot of profit. Nothing else. Innocent always take the short way. Fuck governments!

"When the rich wage war it's the poor who die." - Jean-Paul Sartre

A wise man that Sartre guy.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

America's on going support for Israel means Obomba will never, ever, want Palestine and Israel to sort out their differences. It's not in the American foreign policy mantra to have this settled. The more conflict that goes on the higher profits the US defense industry will make. Even the UK's economy will benefit, I'm sure BAE is supplying the Israeli's in this attempted genocide.

I'm not saying here that Palestine terrorists are innocent of causing harm, but the fact is if Israel hadn't attempted & been successful in continuing to build settlements where they weren't supposed then this conflict would've been very minimal. The fact is that they were never going to have total peace, but it would've been significantly less if the Israelis had behaved.

But at the end of the day... war with Iran is still inevitable. A country that hasn't even done anything yet, every country has nuclear weapons. Who are the west to even dictate who can and can't have them when the US & Soviet Union are the damn reason we almost went to WW3. The cold war has taught the world absolutely nothing. Where's JFK and his failure to speak adequate German when you need him, that Jelly Doughnut ?!

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Hats off to Celtic fans:

[CHOULO19 24,332]

The terrorists that incometax said Israel was targeting in Gaza:

[Fulham Broadway 16,383]

You got to watch the media language with Israel/Gaza as well.

They just said one of the ineffective rockets fired into Israel was made in Iran.

Funny how they never mention the cluster bombs, drones, phosphorous etc used by Israel is made by the US, Lockeed or BAe systems in the UK

[CHOULO19 24,332]

You got to watch the media language with Israel/Gaza as well.

They just said one of the ineffective rockets fired into Israel was made in Iran.

Funny how they never mention the cluster bombs, drones, phosphorous etc used by Israel is made by the US, Lockeed or BAe systems in the UK

Speaking of media language, ever notice that Israelis are always 'killed' by the rockets while Palestinians just 'die' in Gazza...

[Fulham Broadway 16,383]

Speaking of media language, ever notice that Israelis are always 'killed' by the rockets while Palestinians just 'die' in Gazza...

Yes and terms such as "atrocity," "brutal murder," "mass murder," "savage cold blooded killing," "lynching" and "slaughter" have been used to describe the death of Israelis but not for the death of Palestinians. The word "terrorist" is often used to describe Palestinians. However, in reports of an Israeli group attempting to bomb a Palestinian school members of the Israeli group were referred to as "extremists" or "vigilantes" but not as "terrorists''

(Glasgow Media Watch)

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Bravo.

[Fulham Broadway 16,383]

Documented by reuters though corporate media preferred to exclude the build up -

This latest escalation in the conflict began when a non-Hamas paramilitary group took a revenge attack on an armored jeep on the Israeli side of the border fence after the killing of a 12-year old boy playing football some days earlier. Israeli tanks responded with cannon shells into the Gaza Strip. Hamas launched rockets at Israeli towns and villages. Hundreds of thousands of Israelis rushed to their shelters. The car bearing the Hamas military commander, Ahmad Ja’abariwas, blown up by a missile from the air.

Palestinians live with the lies Israel can do no wrong. Israel lives and dies by security. Israeli aggression is called self-defence. Legitimate defence is called terrorism. The real victim here is peace and truth

[CHOULO19 24,332]

This latest escalation in the conflict began when a non-Hamas paramilitary group took a revenge attack on an armored jeep on the Israeli side of the border fence after the killing of a 12-year old boy playing football some days earlier. Israeli tanks responded with cannon shells into the Gaza Strip. Hamas launched rockets at Israeli towns and villages. Hundreds of thousands of Israelis rushed to their shelters. The car bearing the Hamas military commander, Ahmad Ja’abariwas, blown up by a missile from the air.

The thing is, the Israelis have really underestimated how much the resistance has strengthened in the past 4 years and they have got themselves in trouble. The aim of the attack was to wipe out rocket launching sites to decrease the resistance's ability to threaten their cities. They did so in the first day of the attack, except the sites turned out to be fake, which made their attack completely pointless. The resistance in the last four years has apparently acquired Iranian "Fajir 5" rockets which have a range up to 100 Km, "Cornett" anti-tank missiles and some sort of anti-air missiles which they have used to take down a couple of Appatchis all without the knowledge of the Israelis. They basically doing exactly what Hezboullah did in 2006 in much smaller scale due to their limited abilities.

The missiles on Tel Aviv are of huge significance and have never happened before. Some military sources trying to call the iron dome a success because it has intercepted most of the missiles but they intentionally miss two points the first is that those 'interceptions' has cost till now 200 million dollars while the rockets being launched probably cost less than 1% of that. Second, the rockets are not meant to actually destroy anything or even kill anyone for that matter. The moment the sirens sound in Tel Aviv and hundreds of thousands of people run to the shelters, the rockets have accomplished their desired job.

So now, Israel have on their hand a resistance that is stronger and more threatening than ever and no way of stopping it. They have run out of target from day one and are now literally randomly targeting civilian buildings which in turn is raising global awareness against their crimes. But at the same time they can't stop because "Israel never loses in wars". All they can do now is beg the Egyptians to convince Hamas of a truce and make it look like they achieved their targets.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

Well i read most of the comments on the Gaza-Israel topic, first of all i need to say that unfortunately i can agree on alot of the ideas of the "criticism" on Israel's government, i think our approach and attitude was so wrong for years and years, pretty much since the Oslo agreement and those years, since then Israel just got more extremist by the day, i mean the opinions of the people and their disbelief in peace with the palestinians. Im ashame of alot of what is happening, BUT, you do need to do some homework becuase most of you are really too radical and naive in your opinions, even for me. The truth is that the palestinians are guilty of the situation as well. Truth is their leaders are the Hamas, pure terrorists who say time and time again they want too kill all Israelis. Just look at some videos from their TV channels. they chose them to be their authorities and government and its a problem. Its hard for me to put all the guilt on their citizens who sufferd from their last government who took money from them, but you can expect for more from people who wants to make difference. its a dissapointment for people like me who do belive in peace. but again my anger is mainly on Israel, cause first of all thats my country and its our citizens who live in a nightmare, and mostly- we are the ones with power to make big steps. Israel do pretty much nothing to get peace, not in those last few years when we have a very right-sided government. and again, even if we'll do want to get to somewhere, its very hard to see what will happen next, what will happen in Gaza. Lets say we'll do give them back some of their lands that have been occupied in 1967, and i support to do that (but it wont happen btw, like i said with the opinions of people today), but its not that easy to be sure they will stop bombing Israel and demand more. The trust of Israel in the Hamas is the main problem, and as long as i think different from most, even i cant be sure in anything. Hamas got to fall to get to somewhere, thats how it looks. Another problem is that Mahmoud Abbas, who is the president of the palestinian national authorities on the Hamas rivals- Fatah, who is supposed to be an alternative- someone to talk to, is pretty much have no power in Gaza.

RIGHT NOW, i think its imposibble to solve those problems (and there is much more of them), the conflict just got too far and i dont think their will be a solution sadly.

Again, i completly disagree with what we do (didnt mentioned it, also important thing is to get off the blockade on Gaza) , but you cant ignore how messed up things in Gaza are. they are, like Israel, not a side to make a peace with. Still, im maybe naive, but if our current leaders had the same opinions as myself, maybe there was something to do. But we are like 15% of the votes here who share those more open-minded ideas, so it wont be given a chance.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

So now, Israel have on their hand a resistance that is stronger and more threatening than ever and no way of stopping it. They have run out of target from day one and are now literally randomly targeting civilian buildings which in turn is raising global awareness against their crimes. But at the same time they can't stop because "Israel never loses in wars". All they can do now is beg the Egyptians to convince Hamas of a truce and make it look like they achieved their targets.

WOW, this is some loads of shit. first of all- "and are now literally randomly targeting civilian buildings" - again, i do not support this attack, im not supporting any attack, but this is just not true. Im aware civilians are killed by accident, and thats WAY more than enough, but what youre trying to achive by lying this way? our military doesnt attack civilians deliberately. The day it will happen, i wont be here.

Youre trying to make it look like Israel need to beg to someone, you completly got it wrong mate. People here wants the attack to continue, they are actually going to expand the operation. They are probably about to get to Gaza by foot (i mean tanks and infantry soldeirs). The voices here saying they want to stop the attack from Hamas, and if it wont work by talking, they will use much bigger force.

Hamas are the ones btw who trying to "make it look like they achieved their targets". youre talking about bombs in Tel Aviv, but people are living their own life pretty much like before. Hamas did get something, it is an achivment for them, but its not what will "win them the war". its not enough honestly.

By the way you can say Hamas isnt realy trying to kill, but thats just ridiculous realy. yes just bombing is enough for Israel to "get the point", but off course Hamas wants people here killed. Im sure they are very carefull with their targets, GIVE ME A BREAK. Hamas do want to kill civilians, if some of you think otherwise. Im not saying it to prove something and you probably already got that im an opposite in my country, but you need to know the facts- if ill go now to Gaza and say "hi, im an Israeli", they will kill me by seconds, if a Palestinian will do the same here, which is common- there are alot of Palestinians in israel, there will probably be alot of hate from racist idiots in some citys. but in a normal situation nothing more. ( but yes there are ugly fights and stuff)

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Well i read most of the comments on the Gaza-Israel topic, first of all i need to say that unfortunately i can agree on alot of the ideas of the "criticism" on Israel's government, i think our approach and attitude was so wrong for years and years, pretty much since the Oslo agreement and those years, since then Israel just got more extremist by the day, i mean the opinions of the people and their disbelief in peace with the palestinians. Im ashame of alot of what is happening, BUT, you do need to do some homework becuase most of you are really too radical and naive in your opinions, even for me. The truth is that the palestinians are guilty of the situation as well. Truth is their leaders are the Hamas, pure terrorists who say time and time again they want too kill all Israelis. Just look at some videos from their TV channels. they chose them to be their authorities and government and its a problem. Its hard for me to put all the guilt on their citizens who sufferd from their last government who took money from them, but you can expect for more from people who wants to make difference. its a dissapointment for people like me who do belive in peace. but again my anger is mainly on Israel, cause first of all thats my country and its our citizens who live in a nightmare, and mostly- we are the ones with power to make big steps. Israel do pretty much nothing to get peace, not in those last few years when we have a very right-sided government. and again, even if we'll do want to get to somewhere, its very hard to see what will happen next, what will happen in Gaza. Lets say we'll do give them back some of their lands that have been occupied in 1967, and i support to do that (but it wont happen btw, like i said with the opinions of people today), but its not that easy to be sure they will stop bombing Israel and demand more. The trust of Israel in the Hamas is the main problem, and as long as i think different from most, even i cant be sure in anything. Hamas got to fall to get to somewhere, thats how it looks. Another problem is that Mahmoud Abbas, who is the president of the palestinian national authorities on the Hamas rivals- Fatah, who is supposed to be an alternative- someone to talk to, is pretty much have no power in Gaza.

RIGHT NOW, i think its imposibble to solve those problems (and there is much more of them), the conflict just got too far and i dont think their will be a solution sadly.

Again, i completly disagree with what we do (didnt mentioned it, also important thing is to get off the blockade on Gaza) , but you cant ignore how messed up things in Gaza are. they are, like Israel, not a side to make a peace with. Still, im maybe naive, but if our current leaders had the same opinions as myself, maybe there was something to do. But we are like 15% of the votes here who share those more open-minded ideas, so it wont be given a chance.

Mahmoud Abbas is a US puppet that they openly endorse because he's a reactionary which means he'll appease the Israeli's and open the door for them to continue building their illegal settlements into Palestine.

I do sympathize with most Israeli citizens because I don't believe for a second that they approve of the what's going on in that region, everyday living in fear of what's coming your way from the other side. It's refreshing to actually talk to an Israeli who does recognize the atrocities of their government.

Hamas are quite violent in their approach and of course that's undeniable that they are guilty of not trying to fix the situation, a fault that lies with both Hamas & the Israelis. Though I wouldn't stretch so far as to call them terrorists, I mean you have to remember the Palestinians did actually vote in that regime so democracy does exist somewhere in this war-torn region.

I think Choulo made a very good point though, your government has underestimated exactly how much power Hamas has gathered in anticipation of this renewed escalation of further violence. But ultimately you're right, nothing will be done in terms of settling this. Certainly not while the UN & US remains quiet of the crimes Israel continues to commit, because they've been more than vocal about Hamas.

Also, if you don't mind me asking, do you consider yourself a Zionist?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Well i read most of the comments on the Gaza-Israel topic, first of all i need to say that unfortunately i can agree on alot of the ideas of the "criticism" on Israel's government, i think our approach and attitude was so wrong for years and years, pretty much since the Oslo agreement and those years, since then Israel just got more extremist by the day, i mean the opinions of the people and their disbelief in peace with the palestinians. Im ashame of alot of what is happening, BUT, you do need to do some homework becuase most of you are really too radical and naive in your opinions, even for me. The truth is that the palestinians are guilty of the situation as well. Truth is their leaders are the Hamas, pure terrorists who say time and time again they want too kill all Israelis. Just look at some videos from their TV channels. they chose them to be their authorities and government and its a problem. Its hard for me to put all the guilt on their citizens who sufferd from their last government who took money from them, but you can expect for more from people who wants to make difference. its a dissapointment for people like me who do belive in peace. but again my anger is mainly on Israel, cause first of all thats my country and its our citizens who live in a nightmare, and mostly- we are the ones with power to make big steps. Israel do pretty much nothing to get peace, not in those last few years when we have a very right-sided government. and again, even if we'll do want to get to somewhere, its very hard to see what will happen next, what will happen in Gaza. Lets say we'll do give them back some of their lands that have been occupied in 1967, and i support to do that (but it wont happen btw, like i said with the opinions of people today), but its not that easy to be sure they will stop bombing Israel and demand more. The trust of Israel in the Hamas is the main problem, and as long as i think different from most, even i cant be sure in anything. Hamas got to fall to get to somewhere, thats how it looks. Another problem is that Mahmoud Abbas, who is the president of the palestinian national authorities on the Hamas rivals- Fatah, who is supposed to be an alternative- someone to talk to, is pretty much have no power in Gaza. RIGHT NOW, i think its imposibble to solve those problems (and there is much more of them), the conflict just got too far and i dont think their will be a solution sadly. Again, i completly disagree with what we do (didnt mentioned it, also important thing is to get off the blockade on Gaza) , but you cant ignore how messed up things in Gaza are. they are, like Israel, not a side to make a peace with. Still, im maybe naive, but if our current leaders had the same opinions as myself, maybe there was something to do. But we are like 15% of the votes here who share those more open-minded ideas, so it wont be given a chance.

I really appreciate your open-mindedness mate and there is a lot of common ground between my opinion and what you wrote above. Besides the point that LDN already made about Mahmoud, the only point I would disagree with is that you can't, imo, put as much blame on the Palestinians as on your government. I am in no way saying that they are guilt-free, in fact the Palestinian leaders are all corrupt corrupt bastards and idiots who gamble with the lives of their people and sell for cheap. But I, as human being, can't help but think why are those humans extremists which something I could never be? What happened to force these people to the extremes? And I know you probably won't like my opinion on this, but it is Zionism that drove them to the extreme. It's been an ongoing slaughter from 1948; they have been thrown out of their homes or had them bulldozed on their heads, they've been under siege and they've lost most of their land as well as their basic human rights. I am not excusing their extremism or blood lust, just saying that Israel and the west have played a major part in it.

Another point is, I honestly think they stopped fighting for land a long time ago, and despite what their leaders keep on saying in a rather poetic way, all the Palestinian people want is simply to live. End the siege, allow them to have their basic rights of life and the people themselves will kick Hamas and the extremists out because everyone has had enough fighting imo.

On a side note, Hamas are part of the Ikhwan, or muslim brotherhood that is mainly found in Egypt, and since their election in Egypt the US has managed to 'convince' them to take a 180 degrees turn and are now supporters of Israel. So despite them being muslim extremists, they are now what Hilarity Clinton would call "Arabic Moderation".

WOW, this is some loads of shit. first of all- "and are now literally randomly targeting civilian buildings" - again, i do not support this attack, im not supporting any attack, but this is just not true. Im aware civilians are killed by accident, and thats WAY more than enough, but what youre trying to achive by lying this way? our military doesnt attack civilians deliberately. The day it will happen, i wont be here.

I know that your media does their best to portray a different image but this what's happening. Tell me then, what has your army been targeting since Friday? Take yesterday for a example: ALL the attack yesterday were on civilian houses in Gaza (well to be completely fair, one was on a russian tv station) and almost all the causalities yesterday were women and children.

I'm sorry to tell you this, but your army does kill civilians deliberately, and has done countless times in the past, sometimes even in front of the media's cameras like the Mohammed the little boy who was shot while he was in his father's arms which was the catalyst for the second 'intifada'. The Israeli army has in the past bombed a UN shelter were all the women and children Qana had taken shelter killing 80 of them at once, they have bulldozed homes with their inhabitants still inside them to build new settlements and they have targeted many reporters. There are records of hundreds of Palestinian CHILDREN who were killed by snipers. And there are just examples of much much more. In fact, I knew civilians who were deliberately killed by the Israeli army when they occupied parts of Lebanon.

Youre trying to make it look like Israel need to beg to someone, you completly got it wrong mate. People here wants the attack to continue, they are actually going to expand the operation. They are probably about to get to Gaza by foot (i mean tanks and infantry soldeirs). The voices here saying they want to stop the attack from Hamas, and if it wont work by talking, they will use much bigger force.

Okay beg was an exaggeration, but what I meant is that, despite the army's threats and Nataniaho's speeches, Israel is not at all benefiting from the current situation. They are clearly unable to stop the rockets, and while air-raids are just another day in Gaza, the resistance's rockets have managed to disrupt the life in many Israeli cities most significant of which is Tel Aviv which had never been bombed before. I think that the threats of a land invasion are just hot air simply because they know that the losses will not be worth it. Especially with the Cornett missiles that the Palestinians now have and that cause the Israeli army great losses in Lebanon, the cost of a land invasion will be too high and it will achieve next to nothing because the rockets will not stop.

Hamas are the ones btw who trying to "make it look like they achieved their targets". youre talking about bombs in Tel Aviv, but people are living their own life pretty much like before. Hamas did get something, it is an achivment for them, but its not what will "win them the war". its not enough honestly.

I don't think any sane man can believe Hamas can 'win the war'. The amount of funding, arming, and international support for Israel is absolutely ridiculous compared to Hamas'. Hamas and the Palestinians are fighting because they have nothing else left to do. The Palestinians will never have the power to get their land back nor will the west let them get it if they ever manage to have enough power to get it.

And just for the record, the vast majority of the rockets launched on Israel are not by Hamas who after the Egyptian revolution are now in the anti-Iran axis which consequently meant that they are not being armed anymore. The rockets, in particular the Iranian rocket "Fajer 5" which is causing you all sort of problems, are being launched by the "Islamist Jihad" militia...just for factual accuracy.

By the way you can say Hamas isnt realy trying to kill, but thats just ridiculous realy. yes just bombing is enough for Israel to "get the point", but off course Hamas wants people here killed. Im sure they are very carefull with their targets, GIVE ME A BREAK. Hamas do want to kill civilians, if some of you think otherwise. Im not saying it to prove something and you probably already got that im an opposite in my country, but you need to know the facts- if ill go now to Gaza and say "hi, im an Israeli", they will kill me by seconds, if a Palestinian will do the same here, which is common- there are alot of Palestinians in israel, there will probably be alot of hate from racist idiots in some citys. but in a normal situation nothing more. ( but yes there are ugly fights and stuff)

I apologize my wording of the statement did not make it clear. I did not mean that Hamas don't intend to kill Israelis, that is ultimately the why you launch missiles, to kill. The fighters in Gaza have as much blood lust as the Israeli army. But what I meant is that the Palestinian missiles don't need to actually kill to achieve their purpose. The moment the sirens in the targeted city sound, the launching is considered a success. That is because, as I said before, they can never dream to match Israel's fire power, instead all they try to achieve is a "Terror Balance" i.e. make you afraid of war just as much as they are.

They kill you in Gaza not because they are racists but because of what Israelis have done to them in the past. It's not like Hitler who just decided that Jews should not live; it's not racism against the Jewish religion like Hitler, or skin color like in the US. In fact, throughout history the only place that Jews were not oppressed in was the Arab world. A nice historical fact to serve as evidence to that, is when Arabs were forced out of Andalusia in Spain and Portugal, the Jewish community there moved back with Arabs to north Africa in fear of Christian oppression and they remained there till the early 20th century and some are still there now. Moreover, only a century ago, Jews were peacefully living side by side next to Muslims and Christians in none other than Palestine, as well as Lebanon and Syria and various Arab countries. So it was never about racism against Jews, it has always been about ant-Zionism.

i won't get into the complicated situation of the Palestinians living in Israel but it is no surprise, it is, after all, their land.

[Fulham Broadway 16,383]

Quite a lot of babies and children killed again

http://palestinefrommyeyes.wordpress.com/2012/11/17/gazaunderattack-names-and-ages-of-killed-people-who-fell-victim-during-the-past-ongoing-israeli-attacks-on-gaza/

[nadavTKL 1,787]

I really appreciate your open-mindedness mate and there is a lot of common ground between my opinion and what you wrote above. Besides the point that LDN already made about Mahmoud, the only point I would disagree with is that you can't, imo, put as much blame on the Palestinians as on your government. I am in no way saying that they are guilt-free, in fact the Palestinian leaders are all corrupt corrupt bastards and idiots who gamble with the lives of their people and sell for cheap. But I, as human being, can't help but think why are those humans extremists which something I could never be? What happened to force these people to the extremes? And I know you probably won't like my opinion on this, but it is Zionism that drove them to the extreme. It's been an ongoing slaughter from 1948; they have been thrown out of their homes or had them bulldozed on their heads, they've been under siege and they've lost most of their land as well as their basic human rights. I am not excusing their extremism or blood lust, just saying that Israel and the west have played a major part in it.

i said couple of times that i put more blame on our side, much more acctualy. To surprise you, i do think Israel drove them to the extreme, at least some of it (we dont know exactly what was before). Like i said, our approch always was wrong IMO, too agressive and most of all we didnt compromise almost never.

Another point is, I honestly think they stopped fighting for land a long time ago, and despite what their leaders keep on saying in a rather poetic way, all the Palestinian people want is simply to live. End the siege, allow them to have their basic rights of life and the people themselves will kick Hamas and the extremists out because everyone has had enough fighting imo.

I hope you right, and i didnt say something else about that, just saying you cant be sure.

On a side note, Hamas are part of the Ikhwan, or muslim brotherhood that is mainly found in Egypt, and since their election in Egypt the US has managed to 'convince' them to take a 180 degrees turn and are now supporters of Israel. So despite them being muslim extremists, they are now what Hilarity Clinton would call "Arabic Moderation".

I know that your media does their best to portray a different image but this what's happening. Tell me then, what has your army been targeting since Friday? Take yesterday for a example: ALL the attack yesterday were on civilian houses in Gaza (well to be completely fair, one was on a russian tv station) and almost all the causalities yesterday were women and children.

I'm sorry to tell you this, but your army does kill civilians deliberately, and has done countless times in the past, sometimes even in front of the media's cameras like the Mohammed the little boy who was shot while he was in his father's arms which was the catalyst for the second 'intifada'. The Israeli army has in the past bombed a UN shelter were all the women and children Qana had taken shelter killing 80 of them at once, they have bulldozed homes with their inhabitants still inside them to build new settlements and they have targeted many reporters. There are records of hundreds of Palestinian CHILDREN who were killed by snipers. And there are just examples of much much more. In fact, I knew civilians who were deliberately killed by the Israeli army when they occupied parts of Lebanon.

I'll correct myself, i do know about some horrible stories that our army did in Gaza, also things you mentioned, not denying that at all, what i meant is that our government and the head of the army are not giving orders to kill civilians deliberately.Those things you mentioned are terrible things that soldeirs and stupid commanders decided to do on their own. Again, im sure its not orders from the top (prime minister, our Chief of General Staff etc). If you do think its direct orders from them, i think its you that listen to much to your media. maybe their were uglier stories from the past that i dont know of, but right now, those people who lead Israel dont give those orders. about that: "what has your army been targeting since Friday? Take yesterday for a example: ALL the attack yesterday were on civilian houses in Gaza". Again, i cannot agree on those actions(and not all the attack was on houses, again, dont lie because i know whats going on too)- but they are attcking places that from them Hamas sending their rockets. Like you said Hamas "gamble with the lives of their people and sell for cheap", i do belive they are firing from places with civilians just to make our army attack there, and then they will say our army is killing civilians. Its obvious and everyone knows that. If you didnt understand my ideas- i acttualy think we shouldnt attack at all, not if its near civilians or if it is. but i think we messep up too much so now everything is irreversible, and Israel cant do nothing when rockets flying all the time on the citizens. Its sad that we are choosing the wrong option again and again.

Oh, and dont worrey, "media" is a big word, there is alot on sources here, like every country almost. alot of channels and alot of different newspapers, and the media in israel consider as an opposite to whats going on in the gonverment, fully left wing. So we know everything and they are not giving any mercies on the mistakes of our army and gonverment.

Okay beg was an exaggeration, but what I meant is that, despite the army's threats and Nataniaho's speeches, Israel is not at all benefiting from the current situation. They are clearly unable to stop the rockets, and while air-raids are just another day in Gaza, the resistance's rockets have managed to disrupt the life in many Israeli cities most significant of which is Tel Aviv which had never been bombed before. I think that the threats of a land invasion are just hot air simply because they know that the losses will not be worth it. Especially with the Cornett missiles that the Palestinians now have and that cause the Israeli army great losses in Lebanon, the cost of a land invasion will be too high and it will achieve next to nothing because the rockets will not stop.

"air-raids are just another day in Gaza", not its not, civilians in Gaza arent killed day by day by our army, our army doesnt attack so many objective in Hamas in normal days. i think youre lying to youself abit, and with no reason realy, becuase im not someone to argue with, i agree on alot of the things you said. so we should be realistic. I will tell you the truth- yes rockets have managed to disrupt the life in israel, but the thing is no one is surprised that Hamas got all the way to Tel Aviv with their rockets, no one is in shock. And i can also tell that most people here want the oparation to go to another level, people are fully behind the gonverment (again, most of them).

I don't think any sane man can believe Hamas can 'win the war'. The amount of funding, arming, and international support for Israel is absolutely ridiculous compared to Hamas'. Hamas and the Palestinians are fighting because they have nothing else left to do. The Palestinians will never have the power to get their land back nor will the west let them get it if they ever manage to have enough power to get it.

And just for the record, the vast majority of the rockets launched on Israel are not by Hamas who after the Egyptian revolution are now in the anti-Iran axis which consequently meant that they are not being armed anymore. The rockets, in particular the Iranian rocket "Fajer 5" which is causing you all sort of problems, are being launched by the "Islamist Jihad" militia...just for factual accuracy.

I apologize my wording of the statement did not make it clear. I did not mean that Hamas don't intend to kill Israelis, that is ultimately the why you launch missiles, to kill. The fighters in Gaza have as much blood lust as the Israeli army. But what I meant is that the Palestinian missiles don't need to actually kill to achieve their purpose. The moment the sirens in the targeted city sound, the launching is considered a success. That is because, as I said before, they can never dream to match Israel's fire power, instead all they try to achieve is a "Terror Balance" i.e. make you afraid of war just as much as they are.

They kill you in Gaza not because they are racists but because of what Israelis have done to them in the past. It's not like Hitler who just decided that Jews should not live; it's not racism against the Jewish religion like Hitler, or skin color like in the US. In fact, throughout history the only place that Jews were not oppressed in was the Arab world. A nice historical fact to serve as evidence to that, is when Arabs were forced out of Andalusia in Spain and Portugal, the Jewish community there moved back with Arabs to north Africa in fear of Christian oppression and they remained there till the early 20th century and some are still there now. Moreover, only a century ago, Jews were peacefully living side by side next to Muslims and Christians in none other than Palestine, as well as Lebanon and Syria and various Arab countries. So it was never about racism against Jews, it has always been about ant-Zionism.

I know, just wanted to say it so people will understand whats going on, maybe it was unnecessary.

i won't get into the complicated situation of the Palestinians living in Israel but it is no surprise, it is, after all, their land.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

Mahmoud Abbas is a US puppet that they openly endorse because he's a reactionary which means he'll appease the Israeli's and open the door for them to continue building their illegal settlements into Palestine.

I do sympathize with most Israeli citizens because I don't believe for a second that they approve of the what's going on in that region, everyday living in fear of what's coming your way from the other side. It's refreshing to actually talk to an Israeli who does recognize the atrocities of their government.

Hamas are quite violent in their approach and of course that's undeniable that they are guilty of not trying to fix the situation, a fault that lies with both Hamas & the Israelis. Though I wouldn't stretch so far as to call them terrorists, I mean you have to remember the Palestinians did actually vote in that regime so democracy does exist somewhere in this war-torn region.

I think Choulo made a very good point though, your government has underestimated exactly how much power Hamas has gathered in anticipation of this renewed escalation of further violence. But ultimately you're right, nothing will be done in terms of settling this. Certainly not while the UN & US remains quiet of the crimes Israel continues to commit, because they've been more than vocal about Hamas.

Also, if you don't mind me asking, do you consider yourself a Zionist?

I call them terrorists becuase i see how they talk, i see how they are acting, hiding on houses of citizans and schools to send their

rockets so we'll attack there.

a Zionist? what do you mean by it?

I can say that i do think we deserve to live in Israel, the sons of israel lived in those lands thousends of years ago, but i do belive Palestines have their right to demand to live here to. I belive in justice and i want Israel to be a quiet place to live in- so i belive in a solution of two states living on those lands. If you'll ask almost anyone in israel today, they'll say im not a "Zionist", but i dont realy care about those things. Its intresting for me to know why you asked that actually..

[Rmpr 8,977]

I know that your media does their best to portray a different image but this what's happening.

Sorry, you are being extremely impartial. You cant think everyone`s media and means to obtain information is always missleading and you have all the right information. You are very much close to what is happening, but that does not mean you are with the absolutely right point of view. Any comunication service works for their own purposes. It is up to the individual to decide on what parts to believe and gather as much information from both parts as possible...

You both have great points, but it is not here that you both will agree on centuries of dispute and vengance!

IT IS JUST LIKE AFRICAN TRIBOS, IT IS NOT ABOUT RATIONAL REASONS ANYMORE.