The European Leagues & Competitions Thread V2

[OhForAGreavsie 5,890]

8 hours ago, BlueStorm1003 said:

I wanted Monaco to get through, but I can see why you would rather see city do well.

How does exactly a nation's teams progress affect the amount of teams we can get into the UCL?

I know that if a country does bad, it can lose a spot, but I don't know exactly how it works. What sort of progress should we want from other English clubs to benefit ourselves from it?

Clubs collect coefficient points based on their performances in Europe's two completions. More points are available to be gained in the CL than in the EL but a good run in the EL will earn more points than an early departure from the CL.

These points are aggregated for each country and a table is produced based on points accumulated over the five most recent seasons. The top three nations in this table are awarded a fourth CL entrant. Before this round of matches Spain led, by a mile, Germany were second and we were third though only three points ahead of Italy. The points gained gained by United if they progress, and especially by Leicester, are vital.

Previously the allocation of CL places was made annually. So if a nation fell out of the top three it could at least hope to recover its place during the following season. From now on however, the assessment will be made once every three seasons. This means if we lose our fourth Champions League place, it will be gone for at least three years. Worse, with only three clubs competing in the CL, that means only three lots of CL points which can be added to the total instead of four, and remember more points are gained per round in the CL than in the EL. Over the course of three years we will have nine chances to collect Champions League points while the top three nations will have 12. So to overtake them we would have to score more points than they do despite having 3 fewer CL attempts than they will.

What is more, in another change, the fourth entrant from the top three countries will no longer need to qualify for the group stages.  Instead they will automatically enter the tournament in the last 32. No chance of a team failing to qualify for the group stage, as Everton once did, and missing out on the group stage coefficient points. From now on, once you fall out of the top three it'll be harder to get back in.  The scramble for the top four in the Premier League, will become the scramble of the top three.

It's not only that however. Fewer games for city helps them be competitive in the league and The Cup. I would have loved to see them distracted by Europe, while we ran away with the two domestic trophies. Unfortunately that hope bit the dust tonight.

Nor is it only those two things. Defeat for Monaco would have made it more likely that their players would be ready to move on this summer and that would increase our chances of getting some of the talented footballers we are all raving about. The further Monaco progress this season the more likely the stars are to consider it worth sticking with their current "project". This last bit isn't an exact science and the money offered by Europe's bigger clubs would obviously be a factor but whichever way you cut it, elimination in the last 16, gives players less reason to stay optimistic and continue in the south of France.

[Johnnyeye 7,440]

Congrats Monaco, deserved winners today and deserved to go through in the end, that City win in the first leg was mostly because Monaco were very tired after battering City and it almost cost them dearly when City turned it around in the first leg, but in the end Monaco showed everyone they mean business, PSG take note. Cheers

[Johnnyeye 7,440]

4 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

 It's not only that however. Fewer games for city helps them be competitive in the league and The Cup. I would have loved to see them distracted by Europe, while we ran away with the two domestic trophies. Unfortunately that hope bit the dust tonight.

we are 10 points clear at the moment, we only depend on ourselves to win the title and to try and win the FA Cup too, we have had lesser games all season compared to City so no excuses for us, no room for complancency now, we must be focused and treat each game like a final until we are crowned Champions. Cheers

[DYC. 7,542]

Aguero is a bonafide legend in English football. But he's been such a dud in Europe. Ghost for Argentina as well. A shame in a way. I used to love him. He was one of the best teenage players I've seen.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

12 minutes ago, DYC. said:

So he's not a nice man and often stressed out. Difference between a twat and a narcissist. But I understand your issue with him.

Maybe too big a risk as you'd also lose a lot of height and power. He's 5'7 and 58 kg.

He's no Alex Sandro or Filipe Luis but I'm fine with Alonso. When he signed I thought he was decent and I still think he's decent. But he's consistently decent. Rarely has a bad game. Least of Chelsea's problems.

Alonso is decent but i feel both Alonso and Moses are too easily nullified going forward.

He's a good squad player but i'd really be looking for an upgrade in the summer. Next season if we actually want to achieve something in the CL we need better players then just decent ones.

 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,890]

15 minutes ago, Johnnyeye said:

we are 10 points clear at the moment, we only depend on ourselves to win the title and to try and win the FA Cup too, we have had lesser games all season compared to City so no excuses for us, no room for complancency now, we must be focused and treat each game like a final until we are crowned Champions. Cheers

Agreed that there is no room for complacency. That means that, while the 10 points are a tremendous cushion, I don't want to reject any possible further advantage which might be available to us. We are not celebrating being out of Europe. We desperately want to be in and being out is a sign failure. The only consolation for that failure comes from the lighter program we have enjoyed. That advantage ended last night.

I don't care how much we have already gained from it; I wish it had continued all the way to May 27. 

[DYC. 7,542]

5 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

Alonso is decent but i feel both Alonso and Moses are too easily nullified going forward.

He's a good squad player but i'd really be looking for an upgrade in the summer. Next season if we actually want to achieve something in the CL we need better players then just decent ones.

 

You can't upgrade your entire XI in one summer. You're lucky if you get two. Three at a stretch. If  And if I could only pick two positions, I'd go for replacing Matic and Moses. For me it's CM>RWB>RW>CB>LWB in terms of importance.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,890]

6 minutes ago, DYC. said:

You can't upgrade your entire XI in one summer. You're lucky if you get two. Three at a stretch. If  And if I could only pick two positions, I'd go for replacing Matic and Moses. For me it's CM>RWB>RW>CB>LWB in terms of importance.

The only difference of opinion between us here is that I would swap CB and LWB in your list.

[kmk108 1,186]

19 minutes ago, Johnnyeye said:

we are 10 points clear at the moment, we only depend on ourselves to win the title and to try and win the FA Cup too, we have had lesser games all season compared to City so no excuses for us, no room for complancency now, we must be focused and treat each game like a final until we are crowned Champions. Cheers

Exactly. IMO, the story of the season isn't that other teams haven't been able to capitalize on our mistakes, it's that we've been able to get points even when we haven't played well. We've truly played like champions. If we somehow don't win it with a 10 point lead at this point in the season, it won't be because City or some other team is out of Europe and can focus, it's because we threw away the lead.

I don't care how we look anymore. The only thing I care about is points and two wins at Wembley.

[Pizy 18,368]

8 minutes ago, DYC. said:

You can't upgrade your entire XI in one summer. You're lucky if you get two, three at a stretch. If  And if I could only pick two positions, I'd go for replacing Matic and Moses. For me it's CM>RWB>RW>CB>LWB in terms of importance.

I personally think Moses can be trusted more in big games than Alonso. As we've seen numerous times this season, Alonso is rendered useless when the other team has a pacey, athletic winger. He so slow defending and is awkward on the ball going forward. Valencia almost completely negated him going forward the other day.

Moses at least has blistering pace and dribbling that will always cause problems.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

59 minutes ago, DYC. said:

Lemar is not a forward for me. Very much a midfielder. But a much lesser player on the right.

Left midfield in a flat midfield four suits him perfectly but he could possibly adapt to a LWB position as an offensive wingback. But then again, Hazard and Lemar on the same flank is most likely too vulnerable defensively.

Maybe, but I think players like Lemar and Bakayoko suit us far more than Silva and Verratti. 

Forget all the fancy possesion bs. I will leave that to Pep, Klopp and other wankers. Give me powerful, efficient, technical players anyday. 

Despite I was against Bakayoko because he is more of same type as Matic (and I wanted a playmaker), but now I realise all we need is a better player of Matic qualities, not different one. Strong, good on ball, quick and dynamic. All that Bakayoko is. Most problems we had against Spurs and Pool. Why? Because they have power and pressing. Get Bakayoko/Vidal and Lemar and we can beat them at their own game. Get Silva and Veratti and they will still overrun us like it was nothing. Why? Because even with Verratti or Silva, we will never ever in million years control, dominate game against such teams. And this is where Verratti, Silva excel. But we play press and counter football, meaning we need players good off the ball who can be quick and efficient when we get the ball. 

We already deal with small sides. We need a plan for big sides. And no way will we play controlling and possesion football against the likes of Real or Bayern. We will sit deep, wait for chance and go out only if needed. Lemar, Bakayoko etc are perfect for that.

Meanwhile Pep can be signing as many Sanes and fancy little midfielders. This aint fecking spain. 

I saw enough of city and arsenal, two most "spanish silky football" sides from england who did fuck all with those fancy players in CL. 

I know the trend today is be as barcelonish or realish as possible but ffs we are english side. We were dominating with likes of Lamps, Essien, Anelka, Duff, Gudjohnsen, while others had Decos and Ronaldinhos and Zidanes. The main problem with english football is because we want to adapt to different style of football. 

Like putting a square in circle. It wont work. Spanish are masters at their game and will beat us if we play by their rules. Get a strong squad, dynamic, energetic, powerful, efficient, quick, that can defend for 90min or annihilate them in direct attacks and you have a chance. 

The sooner EPL realises that, the sooner they will get back to their best. Its no fucking coincidence Arsenal didnt win a title since they lost Viera and co, and replaced them with "modern" bunch of footballers 

[Johnnyeye 7,440]

27 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Agreed that there is no room for complacency. That means that, while the 10 points are a tremendous cushion, I don't want to reject any possible further advantage which might be available to us. We are not celebrating being out of Europe. We desperately want to be in and being out is a sign failure. The only consolation for that failure comes from the lighter program we have enjoyed. That advantage ended last night.

I don't care how much we have already gained from it; I wish it had continued all the way to May 27. 

i get what you are saying, more tired legs for City would be an advantage for us, but only if we take full advantage of it, and be honest, do you want City to win the Champions League anytime soon? i don´t, not even Arsenal, United, Liverpool, for me its us or no one from England, they can go far but i don´t want them to win it, can you imagine if either of them won? we wouldn´t hear the end of it. Cheers

[DYC. 7,542]

8 minutes ago, Pizy said:

I personally think Moses can be trusted more in big games than Alonso. As we've seen numerous times this season, Alonso is rendered useless when the other team has a pacey, athletic winger. He so slow defending and is awkward on the ball going forward. Valencia almost completely negated him going forward the other day.

Moses at least has blistering pace and dribbling that will always cause problems.

I actually disagree. Moses has been far more disappointing for me. Sometimes he looks completely out of his depth. His decision-making just isn't good enough for me. And he's often left unmarked because of it. And his positional sense is off. At least you can count on Alonso doing the basics right. Great legs, good positioning and distributes the ball well. Players will outpace him from time to time but the left flank is never (too) exposed. And he's very helpful when it comes to defending set-pieces.

Alonso is like Ferreira. If a true upgrade can be acquired, great. If not, no worries.

[Johnnyeye 7,440]

23 minutes ago, kmk108 said:

Exactly. IMO, the story of the season isn't that other teams haven't been able to capitalize on our mistakes, it's that we've been able to get points even when we haven't played well. We've truly played like champions. If we somehow don't win it with a 10 point lead at this point in the season, it won't be because City or some other team is out of Europe and can focus, it's because we threw away the lead.

I don't care how we look anymore. The only thing I care about is points and two wins at Wembley.

i trust Conte and the players to avoid any kind of nightmare scenario, the players are experienced enough to know that its far from over and that they must finish the job, they´ve won many titles in the past and know what needs to be done, we are not going to be bottlers like Arsenal and Liverpool, we´ve come all this way, so we need to concentrate and finish with a bang in the remaining games, the main focus is the Premier League, the FA Cup is just a bonus right now, if we can win it then perfect, we have the squad to win both, but if i had to choose one its definitely the league. Cheers mate

[Blue-in-me-Veins 4,067]

37 minutes ago, DYC. said:

I actually disagree. Moses has been far more disappointing for me. Sometimes he looks completely out of his depth. His decision-making just isn't good enough for me. And he's often left unmarked because of it. And his positional sense is off. At least you can count on Alonso doing the basics right. Great legs, good positioning and distributes the ball well. Players will outpace him from time to time but the left flank is never (too) exposed. And he's very helpful when it comes to defending set-pieces.

Alonso is like Ferreira. If a true upgrade can be acquired, great. If not, no worries.

 

Would you fancy Willian in the RWB role next season? 

[DYC. 7,542]

6 minutes ago, Blue-in-me-Veins said:

Would you fancy Willian in the RWB role next season? 

Nahh, we would've seen it this season if that was an option. Don't think he possesses the defensive nous and power for the role.

[BlueStorm1003 539]

2 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Clubs collect coefficient points based on their performances in Europe's two completions. More points are available to be gained in the CL than in the EL but a good run in the EL will earn more points than an early departure from the CL.

These points are aggregated for each country and a table is produced based on points accumulated of the five most recent seasons. The top three nations in this table are awarded a fourth CL entrant. Before this round of matches Spain led, by a mile, Germany were second and we were third though only three points ahead of Italy. The points gained gained by United if they progress, and especially by Leicester, are vital.

Previously the allocation of CL places was made annually. So if a nation fell out of the top three it could at least hope to recover its place during the following season. From now on however, the assessment will be made once every three seasons. This means if we lose our fourth Champions League place, it will be gone for at least three years. Worse, with only three clubs competing in the CL, that means only three lots of CL points which can be added to the total instead of four, and remember more points are gained per round in the CL than in the EL. Over the course of three years we will have nine chances to collect Champions League points while the top three nations will have 12. So to overtake them we would have to score more points than they do despite having 3 fewer CL attempts than they will.

What is more, in another change, the fourth entrant from the top three countries will no longer need to qualify for the group stages.  Instead they will automatically enter the tournament in the last 32. No chance of a team failing to qualify for the group stage, as Everton once did, and missing out on the group stage coefficient points. From now on, once you fall out of the top three it'll be harder to get back in.  The scramble for the top four in the Premier League, will become the scramble of the top three.

It's not only that however. Fewer games for city helps them be competitive in the league and The Cup. I would have loved to see them distracted by Europe, while we ran away with the two domestic trophies. Unfortunately that hope bit the dust tonight.

Nor is it only those two things. Defeat for Monaco would have made it more likely that their players would be ready to move on this summer and that would increase our chances of getting some of the talented footballers we are all raving about. The further Monaco progress this season the more likely the stars are to consider it worth sticking with their current "project". This last bit isn't an exact science and the money offered by Europe's bigger clubs would obviously be a factor but whichever way you cut it, elimination in the last 16, gives players less reason to stay optimistic and continue in the south of France.

Thanks for the explanation mate!

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

13 hours ago, DYC. said:

You can't upgrade your entire XI in one summer. You're lucky if you get two. Three at a stretch. If  And if I could only pick two positions, I'd go for replacing Matic and Moses. For me it's CM>RWB>RW>CB>LWB in terms of importance.

True but i think 3 would be reasonable since we've gotten a significant amount of money to spend. For me it would be CM>RWB/LWB>CB>RW. Looking at the players we'd want to replace Pedro for me is the least of our worries.

12 hours ago, DYC. said:

I actually disagree. Moses has been far more disappointing for me. Sometimes he looks completely out of his depth. His decision-making just isn't good enough for me. And he's often left unmarked because of it. And his positional sense is off. At least you can count on Alonso doing the basics right. Great legs, good positioning and distributes the ball well. Players will outpace him from time to time but the left flank is never (too) exposed. And he's very helpful when it comes to defending set-pieces.

Alonso is like Ferreira. If a true upgrade can be acquired, great. If not, no worries.

Both are given lots of time and space on the ball. Alonso can't go past players as he just doesn't have the skill or pace to do it while Moses might go past players from time to time but then he struggles to play that final ball.

For me both are an issue and both need replacing.