Juan Mata

[The Mak 4,459]

  On 22/01/2014 at 14:09, The only place to be said:

Except Mata doesn't play. When he does play, our AMs aren't generally the strength they are when we've got Oscar, Willian and Hazard in the side. If we get injuries in those positions to Hazard and Oscar for example, we're fucked whether we still have Mata or not because our team is built around those types of players. Mata isn't needed.

There's a big drop in quality when you rely on Moses/Ramires as back-up compared to Mata - no matter what system you're trying to implement, you're going to get a drop in quality. We have 3 terrible strikers compared to the top teams and our midfield still needs work, as does our defence. We rely on our AMs to win us games. Mata is still capable of getting goals and assists. He's not disabled.

We've been lucky with Hazard's, Oscar's and Willian's fitness until now. Imagine if Hazard pulled his hamstring again like he did 2 weeks before the end of last season? Woops. All of a sudden there goes the majority of our goals from midfield and the guy who needs to be constantly doubled up on. We're then reliant on our only 3 quality AMs to win us games in the league, FA cup and CL.

  On 22/01/2014 at 14:09, The only place to be said:

United's real targets might actually be available in the summer though. This is a panic buy by them.

Who gives a shit.

  On 22/01/2014 at 14:09, The only place to be said:

If we sell Mata, we lose a player who doesn't actually seem to make our team function in quite the same way it does without him. Honestly at this point in time he might actually be sixth choice AM behind Hazard, Oscar, Willian, Schurrle and Ramires. When we play a top team, NOBODY includes Mata. So we're going to say no to £40 million for a player to only appear against Stoke in the FA Cup and maybe West Ham in the league.....oh wait, we can't afford a replay so we probably shouldn't risk playing Mata against Stoke because last time he played against them we lost.

I'm not talking about Stoke or FA cup games. I'm talking about if we get stuck for injuries in really important games like a Dortmund in the CL or something. I don't want the likes of Moses anywhere near such a game. If Oscar gets injured I want Mata to take his place as CAM. Making progress in the CL itself can gain us millions and it could be jeopardised by weakening the strength of our only strength - quality AMs.

And no, I don't fully believe Mata is totally incapable of playing a no.10 in José's system. He was having a perfect game against Southampton, 100% passing, 3/4 tackles made in his own half and had every right to feel aggrieved at being taken off so early. There were exaggerations on both camps towards Mata's influence compared Oscar's in that game. He was doing a good job at what he was asked and has made great strides in his game compared to the start of the season, but some people refuse to see it. He's not just as defensively good as Oscar the same way Oscar is not as offensively good as Mata. Somethings have to be traded.

You must be confused. I'm not saying, 'let's keep him forever' I'm saying that contrary to popular belief, he can still do a good job for us and is great cover to have until the summer where we can not sell to a rival. I find it ironic that you call people glory hunters but you're very quick to get all googly eyed over a big wad of cash (we can fuck all with now) offered to us by our biggest rival in the past decade. Especially since they wouldn't do the same in the summer. Somethings should not have a price. Did Dortmund give a shit when Bayern offered for Lewandowski? Did they fuck. They have some pride

  On 22/01/2014 at 14:09, The only place to be said:

And against West Ham we only played 2 AMs so does we need him for that one or could we go with a 3 man midfield of Lamps, Matic and Rami?

You're advocating a 4-3-3 but if remember correctly you were the one harping on about Oscar being our CAM. You heard José, he doesn't want him tracking full-backs. 4-3-3 is not realistic as long as he is here. But you can continue to point to the whole of 1/2 games as your proof if you really feel like it...

  On 22/01/2014 at 14:09, The only place to be said:

Oh shit, I've got it. CARBONITE. The people who want to keep Mata don't actually want to play him. They want to Han Solo him and hang him in Jabba's palace (no jokes about the woman who owns Southampton please lads). That will be a real statement piece...it'll really tie the room together.

.

Good one. Instead of making stupid smart-arse comments that contribute fuck all, shouldn't you be more worried about people calling you names? You know, to match your discriminatory behaviour towards Chelsea fans? Just so you don't get your knickers in a twist again because you can't defend yourself. Oh wait no, your defence is to prove yourself to be a big tough guy by asking to fight people who live in different countries. Solid!

[Special Juan 27,621]

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:34, Rmpr said:

Did any updates come out about his supposed transfer to United?

Reading around in here you would think so.

Sold for 40M plus a tub of Haribo cola bottles.

[SinineUltra 1,170]

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:31, Korea said:

My question is if Mata is sold to France, what makes you think he wont transfer back to the BPL to United or another team?

You must be joking. For the sake of argument, let's say that PSG or Monaco buy Mata for 35-40mil, do you really think they forked out that kind of money just to be a middle man in a grand scheme to poach Mata from Chelsea to ManUtd?

[The only place to be 11,313]

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:33, Gilvorak said:

Believe it or not I've actually backed Jose on most things up until now (including the mini-meltdown on here when we were really struggling earlier this season or the outrage we loaned Lukaku to Everton). I just can't contemplate selling our best player despite him not getting a fair shot all season long and to our rivals nevertheless.

He might be our best player, but if he doesn't fit the system then what use is he?

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:33, Gilvorak said:

The boring football and results first mentality as well as the near-exclusion and development of youth are all staples of his management I've learned to accept during his first tenure here.

Then go and support United. You've already expressed a desire to see Mata come back and destroy us so you're halfway there.

If you think watching players like Eden Hazard is boring then I'm sorry, I don't know what to tell you. Yes we need to develop youth and there are cases where we could've done so but I hope this is something we commit to in the future. Jose is saying all the right things and the inclusion of Ake, Kalas and Baker in first-team plans is a nice step but we need to do more.

But he deserves time to do so. By my reckoning, Mourinho has given as many under-18s their debuts as Wenger has this year.

[Strike 7,314]

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:26, Eviltwinz93 said:

There is a plausible inferance that can be taken from this deal coming to fruition: that Mourinho has finally broken the board power and commands full control of the happenings of Chelsea, but again this is an inferance. As @We Hate Scouse, pointed out it could indeed be the board bowing their heads to a tantilising 40 million pounds rather than handing Mourinho a vote of confidence. Maybe that's the case maybe it's not, we can't know for sure.

Again as you mentioned earlier, why do we need the money now? If* this happens, I'd imagine it was Jose's call ultimately

*it's still a big If

[FabHazard 655]

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:33, The only place to be said:

Under Moyes? I'd rather we sold Mata to PSG but if there's no offer on the table then you're left with hoping Mata retains value in the summer.

I am ok with selling mata......all i can't stand is selling him to manures!!!!

[We Hate Scouse 10,291]

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:36, Special Juan said:

Reading around in here you would think so.

Sold for 40M plus a tub of Haribo cola bottles.

Explains all the arguing that's going on...Who will get the Haribo? The club or his agent? WHY NOT AGREE A DEAL FOR 2 TUBS CHELSEA? WHY!?!?!?!

[Korea 734]

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:37, SinineUltra said:

You must be joking. For the sake of argument, let's say that PSG or Monaco buy Mata for 35-40mil, do you really think they forked out that kind of money just to be a middle man in a grand scheme to poach Mata from Chelsea to ManUtd?

Knowing how PSG already are willing to offload Lavezzi, Pastore, Menez and company. YEAP

[Strike 7,314]

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:34, Rmpr said:

Did any updates come out about his supposed transfer to United?

No. That's the thing. More hype than substance

[didierforever 7,349]

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:31, The only place to be said:

Are you fucking kidding me? Did you watch the game? Perfectly fine? Compared to what? Did you not see the tempo of the game increase in every aspect with the introduction of Oscar and Willian???

Bertrand wasn't used in the FA Cup or the league cup tie at Sunderland (might have been injured but who knows?). As for delusion I think you wrote the book on it Mr Fan since 2007.

I'm not sure you have that authority though.

What about the results? He was used in all 3 PL losses. We were drawing away to Southampton and Norwich until he was removed (in the 81st minute at Norwich), and went on to win. It was 1-1 at home to Cardiff until he was replaced with Oscar - 4-1.

It's harsh because he's a great player but he seems to undermine the system when he's playing and it's not his fault. The system is fucking hard to play.

He was injured so much in his final season and was becoming a shadow of his former self which was a massive shame. Why you still haven't forgiven Jose says more about you, although you've already said you're looking forward to Mata destroying us in a United shirt.

Fuck knows what you think supporting a club is.

i am not fucking kidding any1. i watched the game and hence i used "more effective" with oscar and willian and hence i used "we can be more flexible". try and read and understand others point of view too. oh wait must be hard for mr. i-am-the-best-chelsea-fan-ever.

i dont have that authority but it seems so weird coming from some1 who goes about giving judgement on club's youth policy towards chalobah and club's finances like u actually have a part in it.

hazard and oscar and JT and cech were used too in all the 3 PL defeats. everton defeat had jack-squat to do with mata. we dominated, could not convert one on ones and open goals (schurrle and etoo) and were conceded due to a defensive brain fart of luiz. newcastle, the team a a whole looked flat. your references to the games he started simply say what my point is, SQUAD DEPTH.

so let me get this straight out, u want a system, which relies on the tremondous workrate of every player involved on the pitch to be continued to employed with absolutely no back-up and replacements? well seems fair to me. sell schurrle too.

[SinineUltra 1,170]

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:39, Korea said:

Knowing how PSG already are willing to offload Lavezzi, Pastore, Menez and company. YEAP

Are you assuming all this based on some yellow pages? Don't get too caught up in media's fabrications.

[Rmpr 8,977]

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:39, Strike said:

No. That's the thing. More hype than substance

Exactly!

But like Special Juan said, reading the stupid arguments in here, one would lead to conclude he was already sold...

[Korea 734]

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:41, SinineUltra said:

Are you assuming all this based on some yellow pages? Don't get too caught up in media's fabrications.

So, if MAta goes to PSg. Their going to keep zlatan, cavani, lavezzi, pastore, menez, lucas, and their 2 young french wingers??

[Special Juan 27,621]

I think Rooney is coming here ya know.

[SinineUltra 1,170]

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:46, Korea said:

So, if MAta goes to PSg. Their going to keep zlatan, cavani, lavezzi, pastore, menez, lucas, and their 2 young french wingers??

Who knows, but if they splash money on a new signing they certainly won't instantly resell him to another club - which was your point.

[Thendo 1,088]

Things is not looking good, even BBC reporting on it now:

BBC Sport ‏@BBCSport 1m

Manchester United have today made an approach for Chelsea’s Spanish winger Juan Mata, says BBC sports editor David Bond #MUFC #CFC

Ben Smith ‏@BenSmithBBC 5m

Juan Mata did not train with #CFC 1st team today. Not injured. Things now moving quickly towards #MUFC move

[Korea 734]

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:48, SinineUltra said:

Who knows, but if they splash money on a new signing they certainly won't instantly resell him to another club - which was your point.

I never said instantly.

In addition, all those guys have been there for what? 1-2 seasons?

[The only place to be 11,313]

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:36, The Mak said:

There's a big drop in quality when you rely on Moses/Ramires as back-up compared to Mata - no matter what system you're trying to implement, you're going to get a drop in quality. We have 3 terrible strikers compared to the top teams and our midfield still needs work, as does our defence. We rely on our AMs to win us games. Mata is still capable of getting goals and assists. He's not disabled.

There's generally a big drop in the quality of our play when Mata is used. He doesn't press as well, he doesn't counter as fast and he just looks slower. Agreed that if you want to change the system we play to one that suits him then we should absolutely keep him.

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:36, The Mak said:

We've been lucky with Hazard's, Oscar's and Willian's fitness until now. Imagine if Hazard pulled his hamstring again like he did 2 weeks before the end of last season? Woops. All of a sudden there goes the majority of our goals from midfield and the guy who needs to be constantly doubled up on. We're then reliant on our only 3 quality AMs to win us games in the league, FA cup and CL.

Doesn't really matter if we still have Mata if Hazard is injured. Schurrle would almost certainly play. We'd lack depth but we could go to 433 which we've played this season more than once

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:36, The Mak said:

I'm not talking about Stoke or FA cup games. I'm talking about if we get stuck for injuries in really important games like a Dortmund in the CL or something. I don't want the likes of Moses anywhere near such a game. If Oscar gets injured I want Mata to take his place as CAM. Making progress in the CL itself can gain us millions and it could be jeopardised by weakening the strength of our only strength - quality AMs.

If Oscar got injured then Hazard or Willian would take his position. It's what happened at Southampton.

Again, we need to talk about what Jose has done and is likely to do, not what people on here want him to do.

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:36, The Mak said:

And no, I don't fully believe Mata is totally incapable of playing a no.10 in José's system. He was having a perfect game against Southampton, 100% passing, 3/4 tackles made in his own half and had every right to feel aggrieved at being taken off so early. There were exaggerations on both camps towards Mata's influence compared Oscar's in that game. He was doing a good job at what he was asked and has made great strides in his game compared to the start of the season but some people refuse to see it. He's not just as defensively good as Oscar the same way Oscar is not as offensively good as Mata. Somethings have to be traded.

Good point...except Mata was playing on the RIGHT-WING in that game and Hazard was in the centre. Oscar and Willian changed that game for us completely and Oscar put the team on his back (not for the first time).

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:36, The Mak said:

You must be confused. I'm not saying, 'let's keep him forever' I'm saying that contrary to popular belief, he can still do a good job for us and is great cover to have until the summer where we can not sell to a rival. I find it ironic that you call people glory hunters but you're very quick to get all googly eyed over a big wad of cash (we can fuck all with now) offered to us by our biggest rival in the past decade. Especially since they wouldn't do the same in the summer. Somethings should not have a price. Did Dortmund give a shit when Bayern offered for Lewandowski? Did they fuck. They have some pride

And Lewandowski is now going to Bayern for free.

I love Mata, but there's a point at which reality needs to take precedence over sentimentality. He's been a great servant for us for a few years now, but he's simply being wasted on the bench. If we needed him then I'd be against selling him, but we don't. There are 5 players I'd use instead of him at the moment.

I don't like the idea of us selling to United and I'm praying PSG come in with some dirty Euros, but I also think United aren't the same United without Ferguson. Mata isn't in the top 12 players I'd be terrified of them getting (mostly CMs).

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:36, The Mak said:

You're advocating a 4-3-3 but if remember correctly you were the one harping on about Oscar being our CAM. You heard José, he doesn't want him tracking full-backs. 4-3-3 is not realistic as long as he is here. But you can continue to point to the whole of 1/2 games as your proof if you really feel like it...

I'm saying we've played 433 with Oscar operating as a right-winger who actually plays centrally quite a bit with Ramires working his bollocks off in the right channels. I brought it up in response to people suggesting we'd suffer injuries in certain positions.

  On 22/01/2014 at 15:36, The Mak said:

.

Good one. Instead of making stupid smart-arse comments that contribute fuck all, shouldn't you be more worried about people calling you names? You know, to match your discriminatory behaviour towards Chelsea fans? Just so you don't get your knickers in a twist again because you can't defend yourself. Oh wait no, your defence is to prove yourself to be a big tough guy by asking to fight people who live in different countries. Solid!

I made a light-hearted comment at the end of a more serious (or as serious as football discussions get) post.

Back on the ignore list with you. Enjoy your pint.