Juan Mata

[didierforever 7,349]

Are you fucking kidding me? Did you watch the game? Perfectly fine? Compared to what? Did you not see the tempo of the game increase in every aspect with the introduction of Oscar and Willian???

Bertrand wasn't used in the FA Cup or the league cup tie at Sunderland (might have been injured but who knows?). As for delusion I think you wrote the book on it Mr Fan since 2007.

I'm not sure you have that authority though.

What about the results? He was used in all 3 PL losses. We were drawing away to Southampton and Norwich until he was removed (in the 81st minute at Norwich), and went on to win. It was 1-1 at home to Cardiff until he was replaced with Oscar - 4-1.

It's harsh because he's a great player but he seems to undermine the system when he's playing and it's not his fault. The system is fucking hard to play.

He was injured so much in his final season and was becoming a shadow of his former self which was a massive shame. Why you still haven't forgiven Jose says more about you, although you've already said you're looking forward to Mata destroying us in a United shirt.

Fuck knows what you think supporting a club is.

i am not fucking kidding any1. i watched the game and hence i used "more effective" with oscar and willian and hence i used "we can be more flexible". try and read and understand others point of view too. oh wait must be hard for mr. i-am-the-best-chelsea-fan-ever.

i dont have that authority but it seems so weird coming from some1 who goes about giving judgement on club's youth policy towards chalobah and club's finances like u actually have a part in it.

hazard and oscar and JT and cech were used too in all the 3 PL defeats. everton defeat had jack-squat to do with mata. we dominated, could not convert one on ones and open goals (schurrle and etoo) and were conceded due to a defensive brain fart of luiz. newcastle, the team a a whole looked flat. your references to the games he started simply say what my point is, SQUAD DEPTH.

so let me get this straight out, u want a system, which relies on the tremondous workrate of every player involved on the pitch to be continued to employed with absolutely no back-up and replacements? well seems fair to me. sell schurrle too.

[SinineUltra 1,164]

Knowing how PSG already are willing to offload Lavezzi, Pastore, Menez and company. YEAP

Are you assuming all this based on some yellow pages? Don't get too caught up in media's fabrications.

[Rmpr 8,977]

No. That's the thing. More hype than substance

Exactly!

But like Special Juan said, reading the stupid arguments in here, one would lead to conclude he was already sold...

[Korea 734]

Are you assuming all this based on some yellow pages? Don't get too caught up in media's fabrications.

So, if MAta goes to PSg. Their going to keep zlatan, cavani, lavezzi, pastore, menez, lucas, and their 2 young french wingers??

[Special Juan 27,099]

I think Rooney is coming here ya know.

[SinineUltra 1,164]

So, if MAta goes to PSg. Their going to keep zlatan, cavani, lavezzi, pastore, menez, lucas, and their 2 young french wingers??

Who knows, but if they splash money on a new signing they certainly won't instantly resell him to another club - which was your point.

[Thendo 1,088]

Things is not looking good, even BBC reporting on it now:

BBC Sport ‏@BBCSport 1m

Manchester United have today made an approach for Chelsea’s Spanish winger Juan Mata, says BBC sports editor David Bond #MUFC #CFC

Ben Smith ‏@BenSmithBBC 5m

Juan Mata did not train with #CFC 1st team today. Not injured. Things now moving quickly towards #MUFC move

[Korea 734]

Who knows, but if they splash money on a new signing they certainly won't instantly resell him to another club - which was your point.

I never said instantly.

In addition, all those guys have been there for what? 1-2 seasons?

[The only place to be 11,313]

There's a big drop in quality when you rely on Moses/Ramires as back-up compared to Mata - no matter what system you're trying to implement, you're going to get a drop in quality. We have 3 terrible strikers compared to the top teams and our midfield still needs work, as does our defence. We rely on our AMs to win us games. Mata is still capable of getting goals and assists. He's not disabled.

There's generally a big drop in the quality of our play when Mata is used. He doesn't press as well, he doesn't counter as fast and he just looks slower. Agreed that if you want to change the system we play to one that suits him then we should absolutely keep him.

We've been lucky with Hazard's, Oscar's and Willian's fitness until now. Imagine if Hazard pulled his hamstring again like he did 2 weeks before the end of last season? Woops. All of a sudden there goes the majority of our goals from midfield and the guy who needs to be constantly doubled up on. We're then reliant on our only 3 quality AMs to win us games in the league, FA cup and CL.

Doesn't really matter if we still have Mata if Hazard is injured. Schurrle would almost certainly play. We'd lack depth but we could go to 433 which we've played this season more than once

I'm not talking about Stoke or FA cup games. I'm talking about if we get stuck for injuries in really important games like a Dortmund in the CL or something. I don't want the likes of Moses anywhere near such a game. If Oscar gets injured I want Mata to take his place as CAM. Making progress in the CL itself can gain us millions and it could be jeopardised by weakening the strength of our only strength - quality AMs.

If Oscar got injured then Hazard or Willian would take his position. It's what happened at Southampton.

Again, we need to talk about what Jose has done and is likely to do, not what people on here want him to do.

And no, I don't fully believe Mata is totally incapable of playing a no.10 in José's system. He was having a perfect game against Southampton, 100% passing, 3/4 tackles made in his own half and had every right to feel aggrieved at being taken off so early. There were exaggerations on both camps towards Mata's influence compared Oscar's in that game. He was doing a good job at what he was asked and has made great strides in his game compared to the start of the season but some people refuse to see it. He's not just as defensively good as Oscar the same way Oscar is not as offensively good as Mata. Somethings have to be traded.

Good point...except Mata was playing on the RIGHT-WING in that game and Hazard was in the centre. Oscar and Willian changed that game for us completely and Oscar put the team on his back (not for the first time).

You must be confused. I'm not saying, 'let's keep him forever' I'm saying that contrary to popular belief, he can still do a good job for us and is great cover to have until the summer where we can not sell to a rival. I find it ironic that you call people glory hunters but you're very quick to get all googly eyed over a big wad of cash (we can fuck all with now) offered to us by our biggest rival in the past decade. Especially since they wouldn't do the same in the summer. Somethings should not have a price. Did Dortmund give a shit when Bayern offered for Lewandowski? Did they fuck. They have some pride

And Lewandowski is now going to Bayern for free.

I love Mata, but there's a point at which reality needs to take precedence over sentimentality. He's been a great servant for us for a few years now, but he's simply being wasted on the bench. If we needed him then I'd be against selling him, but we don't. There are 5 players I'd use instead of him at the moment.

I don't like the idea of us selling to United and I'm praying PSG come in with some dirty Euros, but I also think United aren't the same United without Ferguson. Mata isn't in the top 12 players I'd be terrified of them getting (mostly CMs).

You're advocating a 4-3-3 but if remember correctly you were the one harping on about Oscar being our CAM. You heard José, he doesn't want him tracking full-backs. 4-3-3 is not realistic as long as he is here. But you can continue to point to the whole of 1/2 games as your proof if you really feel like it...

I'm saying we've played 433 with Oscar operating as a right-winger who actually plays centrally quite a bit with Ramires working his bollocks off in the right channels. I brought it up in response to people suggesting we'd suffer injuries in certain positions.

.

Good one. Instead of making stupid smart-arse comments that contribute fuck all, shouldn't you be more worried about people calling you names? You know, to match your discriminatory behaviour towards Chelsea fans? Just so you don't get your knickers in a twist again because you can't defend yourself. Oh wait no, your defence is to prove yourself to be a big tough guy by asking to fight people who live in different countries. Solid!

I made a light-hearted comment at the end of a more serious (or as serious as football discussions get) post.

Back on the ignore list with you. Enjoy your pint.

[different level 1,056]

If we sell Mata this winter, not only to United but in general, he has every right to hate our guts after everything he did for the club in the past two seasons.

[Pizy 17,860]

I think Rooney is coming here ya know.

He fucking better be.

[SinineUltra 1,164]

I never said instantly.

In addition, all those guys have been there for what? 1-2 seasons?

Majority of the superstars yes, but keep in mind the club was taken over by Qatar moneybags in 2011 while becoming the sole owner only in 2012.

[Korea 734]

Majority of the superstars yes, but keep in mind the club was taken over by Qatar moneybags in 2011 while becoming the sole owner only in 2012.

And when the next big thing comes, what makes you think they wont sell Mata to whoever?

[Kieran. 6,317]

BBC:

Manchester United make a bid for Chelsea midfielder Juan Mata in the region of £35m. Developing story: http://bbc.in/1g09nuq #MUFC #CFC

[SinineUltra 1,164]

And when the next big thing comes, what makes you think they wont sell Mata to whoever?

Am I talking to a brick wall here, mate?

[The only place to be 11,313]

so let me get this straight out, u want a system, which relies on the tremondous workrate of every player involved on the pitch to be continued to employed with absolutely no back-up and replacements? well seems fair to me. sell schurrle too.

No, I think we need 5 players for those 3 positions or use the 433 we've used sporadically this season to good effect.

Ideally we'd sign a 5th AM who wold be a right-sided, left-footed player who fits the system. At the moment we have Hazard, Oscar, Willian, Schurrle and Ramires (who can play on the right if needed) if Mata leaves.

[Jase 43,479]

Using Mata changes the system as well though. Haven't you noticed that?

And we've already used 433 with Rami in the middle interchanging with Oscar on the right and the pressing and counter system STILL worked. With Mata is simply doesn't.

Aye while that maybe true but you'll have to keep in mind that it was a rubbish West Ham side we played against, a West Ham side that is getting hammered in every game. Just because it worked against them, doesn't mean it will work against others and besides, that is only 1 game or in other words, such a small sample size to use as a counter argument to the squad depth point. In fact, I haven't seen anyone provide a solid reason or two that we can survive with 4 AMs for 3 positions for the remainder of the season.

From the 'business' point of view, yeah I can see the benefits of getting 40m for a supposedly squad player which we can use the money for something else. I get that. However from the squad's perspective, where does this leave us for the remainder of the season? We'll only have 4 AMs then for 3 positions and it takes an injury to someone before we get down to our bare bones all of a sudden. There is no doubt that we have done well recently and with the trio of Hazard-Oscar-Willian and there's arguably no reason to break that up.

However, I think people are getting carried away by that and forgetting in the past few weeks, we have only played a game once a week. Hence, there wasn't real need to change a winning team, if you like, as everyone is fresh and that is why the likes of Mata, Schurrle, Cole etc haven't played and only do when being called upon. If you all remember when we had tons of games before January, like every 3-4 days we have a game to play and the whole squad was basically utilized then, not just Mata, not just Schurrle but the full squad. After this week, we'll be basically playing a game every 3-4 days once more and when that time comes, we'll need everyone to come in and do their job as we cannot expect the current XI lot to play and perform every week.

Am aware that with just 4 AMs, we could switch to a 4-3-3 again but every time when Mourinho has used that approach this season, it's only done to counter the opposition (e.g Arsenal away) or to close a game out. Of course, he did play it against West Ham but I suspect that was just more of adapting to the opposition we face. Mourinho has admitted that 4-2-3-1 is his favoured formation previously and even if we were to change formation from time to time, I don't think it will help much with the consistency. Moreover, changing to the 4-3-3 is one thing but would any of our current strikers be comfortable with that? Still gotta make sure everyone is comfortable within a system and not just having 1-2 parts functioning and the rest not.

All in all, I can see both point of views in selling Mata but I just think there will be more negative impact on us if we were to do that now and this is excluding the implications of selling him to United.

[The Mak 4,459]

Back on the ignore list with you. Enjoy your pint.

Thank fuck for that! You just enjoy yourself down there!