Juan Mata

[Special Juan 27,111]

I mean whatever next, over to the Marko Marin thread to mention how much of a loss he will be loaning him out.

[Hutcho 8,443]

Do people have memories of a gold fish?

He has been our best player for the last 2 years. Having a shit game for spain means absolute sweet FA.

Talk about over-reactions...

[Stingray 9,441]

I mean whatever next, over to the Marko Marin thread to mention how much of a loss he will be loaning him out.

[Jase 43,479]

"He's powder puff soft" what the hell has that got to do with anything?

He's just won the clubs POTY twice on the belt and contributed massively since he arrived, we should be embracing that and stop worrying about when he will decline or how soft he is.

Some people have too much time in their hand being paranoid perhaps. Worrying and thinking too much about the negatives when there is so much more positives to embrace, as you said, and think about. We should be looking forward to how Mata, Hazard, Oscar, KDB etc get better with age and shape an exciting future with us as well as winning more and more trophies!

[Stingray 9,441]

Some people have too much time in their hand being paranoid perhaps. Worrying and thinking too much about the negatives when there is so much more positives to embrace, as you said, and think about. We should be looking forward to how Mata, Hazard, Oscar, KDB etc get better with age and shape an exciting future with us as well as winning more and more trophies!

Indeed!

Sorry.

[Jase 43,479]

Indeed!

Sorry.

You did that on purpose!

[Stingray 9,441]

You did that on purpose!

Ow yes .... :blue scalf:

[Jype 6,398]

So he was bad for Spain yesterday, who cares? He's clearly not a key player for them and even when he gets to play he's nowhere near the focal point of their attack so I can see why he struggles there. Have some people already forgotten how Mata has been our best player for two years straight and has carried the team on his back game after game? What more we could possibly have asked for?

While I somewhat agree that Mata isn't irreplaceable with the likes of Hazard, Oscar and De Bruyne at the club, it would still be beyond moronic to sell him. The idea is to improve the squad over a transfer window, not get rid of the team's best players. This fucking off-season...

[DDA 9,570]

Sell Mata haahahahahahahah fucking jokers!

[robsblubot 3,262]

Let me just remind everyone that we had a poor last season! We were third in the league, well behind the Mancs, which would be cause for celebration only if you were an Arsenal fan. Not to mention our "participation" in the CL...

Mata was overplayed and looked tired during several matches last season. While he did create and score many goals, his participation wasn't always adequate for a centralized midfielder. His defending, for example, is pretty bad as well and not something that can be easily improved. There will be times where having Mata centralized can be risky (say having him against Toure).

No player is bigger than the club. If Chelsea believe this overdependence is harmful, we should address it; and btw, by keeping KDB I guess we are.

[Mceachran 109]

Let me just remind everyone that we had a poor last season! We were third in the league, well behind the Mancs, which would be cause for celebration only if you were an Arsenal fan. Not to mention our "participation" in the CL...

Mata was overplayed and looked tired during several matches last season. While he did create and score many goals, his participation wasn't always adequate for a centralized midfielder. His defending, for example, is pretty bad as well and not something that can be easily improved. There will be times where having Mata centralized can be risky (say having him against Toure).

No player is bigger than the club. If Chelsea believe this overdependence is harmful, we should address it; and btw, by keeping KDB I guess we are.

Here's why you're "centralized" Mata theory is just wrong:

Imagine we play a 4-4-2 with two CM back from the two outside wingers, and then drop one forward behind the other (i.e. a 4-2-3-1) then MATA IS A SECOND FORWARD CONTRIBUTING DIRECTLY TO 50+ goals.

No, he doesn't need to improve his defending.

[Jase 43,479]

Let me just remind everyone that we had a poor last season! We were third in the league, well behind the Mancs, which would be cause for celebration only if you were an Arsenal fan. Not to mention our "participation" in the CL...

In regards to the Premier League last season, don't think we had a poor season. Yes, we could and should have perhaps done a bit better BUT at the start of the season, most people were aware that our squad, while it has talented players, wasn't strong enough yet to challenge United and City for the title due to the changes made and a lack of top quality ST upfront. Most of us back then would be satisfied if we finish 3rd at least, because of the reasons mentioned and the fact that we would improve on the 6th placed finish in the season before. In the end, we did that and are pleased with it but not celebrating it as if we won a trophy like Arsenal did when they got 4th.

As for the Champions League, yes, we should have done better. Some might say we were unlucky to get a tough group but had we see out a 2-0 lead over Juventus and defended better back then, we would have progressed from the group stage (though ironically, it was these problems that led us to winning the Europa League). Overall, in terms looking at last season as a whole, it was perhaps a bit disappointing simply because we were involved in so many competitions and got ourselves into fantastic positions to win trophies but bottled one after another till the last one. Should have won at least 2-3 then but there were lots of positive to take from in terms of the promise some players shown.

And mind you, had it not been for Mata who showed incredible consistency throughout the season in producing countless moment of brilliance and quality when we desperately need them, we would have finished the season worse than we did.

Mata was overplayed and looked tired during several matches last season. While he did create and score many goals, his participation wasn't always adequate for a centralized midfielder. His defending, for example, is pretty bad as well and not something that can be easily improved. There will be times where having Mata centralized can be risky (say having him against Toure).

Think the problem with Mata in regards to defending is his workrate, not his defending ability or anything. And I don't see how this can't be improved with proper coaching and management. After all, Benitez managed to ensure Hazard do his fair share of defending by increasing his workrate from poor to good. If Hazard can do that, then I don't see why Mata can't. There's always room for improvement and it's not like he's mentally weak or shown signs he can't be helped anymore in that aspect.

As for defending against Toure, the problem then wouldn't be about the defensive workrate (only) but more so gotta do with matching him for physicality, aggression and strength. No one from our team did it last season, not just Mata. Even if we put Oscar, who admittedly has a better workrate than Mata right now, to mark Toure, he would have struggled as well simply because of the difference in power and strength between the two.

[robsblubot 3,262]

Here's why you're "centralized" Mata theory is just wrong:

Imagine we play a 4-4-2 with two CM back from the two outside wingers, and then drop one forward behind the other (i.e. a 4-2-3-1) then MATA IS A SECOND FORWARD CONTRIBUTING DIRECTLY TO 50+ goals.

No, he doesn't need to improve his defending.

I guess we agree to disagree. He has no physical presence, nor the workrate. This system where you've got players (plural) who don't have to work only exists in loser sides.

In regards to the Premier League last season, don't think we had a poor season. Yes, we could and should have perhaps done a bit better BUT at the start of the season, most people were aware that our squad, while it has talented players, wasn't strong enough yet to challenge United and City for the title due to the changes made and a lack of top quality ST upfront. Most of us back then would be satisfied if we finish 3rd at least, because of the reasons mentioned and the fact that we would improve on the 6th placed finish in the season before. In the end, we did that and are pleased with it but not celebrating it as if we won a trophy like Arsenal did when they got 4th.

As for the Champions League, yes, we should have done better. Some might say we were unlucky to get a tough group but had we see out a 2-0 lead over Juventus and defended better back then, we would have progressed from the group stage (though ironically, it was these problems that led us to winning the Europa League). Overall, in terms looking at last season as a whole, it was perhaps a bit disappointing simply because we were involved in so many competitions and got ourselves into fantastic positions to win trophies but bottled one after another till the last one. Should have won at least 2-3 then but there were lots of positive to take from in terms of the promise some players shown.

And mind you, had it not been for Mata who showed incredible consistency throughout the season in producing countless moment of brilliance and quality when we desperately need them, we would have finished the season worse than we did.

Think the problem with Mata in regards to defending is his workrate, not his defending ability or anything. And I don't see how this can't be improved with proper coaching and management. After all, Benitez managed to ensure Hazard do his fair share of defending by increasing his workrate from poor to good. If Hazard can do that, then I don't see why Mata can't. There's always room for improvement and it's not like he's mentally weak or shown signs he can't be helped anymore in that aspect.

As for defending against Toure, the problem then wouldn't be about the defensive workrate (only) but more so gotta do with matching him for physicality, aggression and strength. No one from our team did it last season, not just Mata. Even if we put Oscar, who admittedly has a better workrate than Mata right now, to mark Toure, he would have struggled as well simply because of the difference in power and strength between the two.

Right, but that's the only point being made until ppl started, without reading or fully understanding the claims, jumping to conclusions that some wanted him out. The point was about squad depth... perhaps against City for example, we can have Mata *or* Hazard be given a somewhat free role, so we'll end up more hard-working players on the pitch. We gotta do something against City--whatever we have isn't working.

Workrate is key to defending. Especially up front where tackling isn't that important. btw, his taclking isn't great either.

It's all about having the right tools for the task. The idea that Mata has to play every single game IMO can even diminish his overall contribution.

[wj818 25]

I guess we agree to disagree. He has no physical presence, nor the workrate. This system where you've got players (plural) who don't have to work only exists in loser sides.

Right, but that's the only point being made until ppl started, without reading or fully understanding the claims, jumping to conclusions that some wanted him out. The point was about squad depth... perhaps against City for example, we can have Mata *or* Hazard be given a somewhat free role, so we'll end up more hard-working players on the pitch. We gotta do something against City--whatever we have isn't working.

Workrate is key to defending. Especially up front where tackling isn't that important. btw, his taclking isn't great either.

It's all about having the right tools for the task. The idea that Mata has to play every single game IMO can even diminish his overall contribution.

The main problem against machester city is their midfield, they are superior to us and they totally control the midfield every time.

[Magic Lamps 11,473]

Yup who gives a shit about Mata for Spain. I think Mata is a player who really has to have the team playing around him so his lack of pace and strength and in general any kind of athleticism does not get too exposed. You just can't place him on the wing just like Del Bosque did. Esp with that lack of protection they got with only one defensive midfielder. Two massive errors by the coach, completely outfoxed by Scolari. Mata remains our second best and most important player and he probably also would be that for Spain if they played a 4-2-3-1 with Mata as no.10. Thing is they don't, they rather build the team around Xavi and Iniesta, the latter is still better than Mata and hence one can understand that.

ON the other hand, people should stop looking up to Mata as if he was God. He might have been amazing and our best player overall in the past 2 years but in these 2 years we might have won 2 european trophies with a lot of luck but the squad is ridiculous compared to what we had 2004-2010. Mata is not even close as good as Lamps&Drogs of old and never will be. They could rip Barca or BAyern Munich apart single-handidly., Mata might contribute a lot of assists vs average sides but against real teams as Bayern, Barcelona, ManCity or Juventus he goes missing. The problem is, there is nothing he can do about it, he needs the ball to be played to him over and over again in good positions. He can't run, can't dribble, has no pace, no right foot and gets pushed over as soon as a good tackler gets near him. He is slower than every defender. All this makes it tricky to orchestrate the game. He pulls out some nice skills here and there and also has his moments, but his job is to make the game which he simply can't against big opponents. It's not that he is not mentally able to perform in big games or shit, it's simply his limitations as a player esp as an athlete which make it impossible for him to dictate the play in those games. That is why he is not the man we should build or team around. He is still a very useful player who shoud play almost every of our matches, but he is not our best player by ability.

It's Hazard. Hazard is like Messi. He is skilful and damn fast. He can run through defenses with ease create a goal out of nothing on his very own against any defender. He might not have done that against eh very big teams, too, but he, opposite to Mata, has the potential to do so, he does not have these limitations that prohibit him from becoming one of the very best. That is why we should play Hazard on the left wing where he belongs. If a we play counter-attacking and a 4-3-3 does fit Hazard better, then ditch Mata. We can't dominate Bayern or BArcelona, which would be necessary for mATA to be effective, but we can counterattack them to death for which we do not need Mata.

[Henrique 9,133]

I love Mata and I think he's an excellent representative of Chelsea Football Club, but I'm really starting to think that he won't have another season like he did last time out in terms of importance to the team, minutes and goals/assists. I really do think he might sit out a few matches where Oscar's workrate might be considered more important, because Mata can sometimes struggle to impose himself on the opposition.

I actually think that Oscar has a higher ceiling than Mata and that Jose might choose to give him the Number 10 role instead of Juan, which is probably why there's been these stories leaking out. This isn't a case of 'Jose likes to bully the opposition' but Mata always gives the impression of being knackered and sometimes the distances between him and the other midfielders makes passing the ball out of defence tricky, and also creates holes for the opposition to exploit.

Maybe that's a case of his stupidly heavy workload over the last 24 months and maybe Jose can work on some of these issues but I do think that Mata might become slightly less important to our team next season.

Depressing post. TC became a sad place during this period, as usual.

[Mceachran 109]

So many things you just said... I hear Mata also can't tie his own shoes.

[Blue Gino 377]

FFS are there Liverscum or Red Devils in the mist around here? Taking a dump on mighty mouse Mata? Seriously? Silly season and anti-Chelsea writers and commentators have clouded the judgement of many around here. Can't believe the brainwashed comments on here. If you don't like Mata, that's fine but Torres is a pile of shit and hard to defend, whereas Mata has been magical and to question if the club is better off without him is fucking treason! He's not a defender, they are the weak point of this club ffs.