Juan Mata

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

But what about in a 4-3-3? There the RCM/LCM can provide more cover for the full-back when needed...That's how it worked when we used to play Anelka on the wing.

Those teams were generally very good defensively. We had a great back 4 and players like Essien, Mikel, Ramires (not to mention Kalou who, if nothing else, did his defensive duties). Besides, we were smashing lots of teams then. If we start scoring 5 and 6 goals all the time, then we don't exactly have to worry about defensive shape. The problem with the 4-3-3 for us is that our two best players this year have pretty easily been Hazard and Mata and the 4-3-3 makes them less important. De-emphasizing your best players just doesn't make sense to me.

[Spike 12,049]

People shouldn't consider Mata a midfielder. He is a foward, he is deep lying foward like Del Piero or Totti.

[Spike 12,049]

Barca play with Iniesta on the wing at times, I don't hear those fools complaining about how he's holding the team back.

I do.

http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football/barca/

[The only place to be 11,313]

Mata does drop back. In fact, he often drops back further than Oscar. The issue is that he doesn't defend very well. I understand in certain teams under certain managers, the system is more important than anything and because Mata drifts, he might not fit into that sort of system. However, it's not like that in every system. Man City won the league last year in a large part to David SIlva who played a similar role to the one Mata plays for us.The fundamental question right now is are we better with Mata in the middle or not and I think the answer is very clearly yes. Oscar has enormous potential, but apart from his defensive work, he's worse than Mata in every way right now. De-emphasizing your best player for someone who has potential is ridiculous for a team who actually cares about winning. And many advanced midfielders also act as playmakers. Mata gives us results. In less than two years, he has won us tons of points. If some manager wants to come in and change the system around, fine, but to move Mata now would make no sense. Also, the defensive aspect of Mata and Hazard is going to be problematic anywhere. Is it better to have Mata and Hazard on the wings than Mata in the centre? The centre of the pitch has more defensive cover and you can afford a poorer defensive player there. A winger that doesn't track back is more dangerous IMO.

The view that I take, is that Oscar has the potential to be one of the best players in the world. Already he's shown glimpses of just how good he can be especially in the Champions League, but also at international level. Now that's not say say Mata hasn't been great for us because he has but this is about incorporating both players into the same team whilst getting the best from each of them.

If we're going to look at Oscar as a player we're going to keep around then I think we have to make a commitment to him and build the team around him. That's a gamble, but one I think has a tremendous upside and also allows Mata to play on the wing still.

What Mata needs to do in that instance is work on his workrate and perhaps even his fitness. How many match threads do people make comments about him needing to be rested because he looks a bit tired? I'd say at least 35-40% of them. At some point that stops being a quirk and starts becoming a hinderance - the same hasn't been said anywhere near as much about Oscar.

I would say this is another of our first-world problems like the Cech/Courtois debate but this is much more fundamental to the way the team is going to play in the next 5 years. We're talking about the heartbeat of the team here and which player serves us best going forward.

We spent £20 million on Oscar's potential - at some point you actually have to try and turn that potential into reality and I think the game against West Brom showed just what he can do. Yes he should've finished those chances but it was encouraging to see him get in those positions, arriving late into the box, splitting defenders and finding space and even creating his own shooting opportunities from the edge of the area. Maybe it's something we leave until the summer, but at some point we are going to have to choose especially if we get a coach like Jose who likes players to do their jobs defensively with the odd exception.

[Muzchap 8,966]

The view that I take, is that Oscar has the potential to be one of the best players in the world. Already he's shown glimpses of just how good he can be especially in the Champions League, but also at international level. Now that's not say say Mata hasn't been great for us because he has but this is about incorporating both players into the same team whilst getting the best from each of them.

If we're going to look at Oscar as a player we're going to keep around then I think we have to make a commitment to him and build the team around him. That's a gamble, but one I think has a tremendous upside and also allows Mata to play on the wing still.

What Mata needs to do in that instance is work on his workrate and perhaps even his fitness. How many match threads do people make comments about him needing to be rested because he looks a bit tired? I'd say at least 35-40% of them. At some point that stops being a quirk and starts becoming a hinderance - the same hasn't been said anywhere near as much about Oscar.

I would say this is another of our first-world problems like the Cech/Courtois debate but this is much more fundamental to the way the team is going to play in the next 5 years. We're talking about the heartbeat of the team here and which player serves us best going forward.

We spent £20 million on Oscar's potential - at some point you actually have to try and turn that potential into reality and I think the game against West Brom showed just what he can do. Yes he should've finished those chances but it was encouraging to see him get in those positions, arriving late into the box, splitting defenders and finding space and even creating his own shooting opportunities from the edge of the area. Maybe it's something we leave until the summer, but at some point we are going to have to choose especially if we get a coach like Jose who likes players to do their jobs defensively with the odd exception.

Agree - I see no problem with Mata/Oscar playing for the same role - and being rotated next season.

We have relied on Mata way too much and we burn the guy to pieces - if he isn't playing, we ain't...

It's healthy to have competition for places and both Oscar and Mata can play other positions too - so will get plenty of play time...

Lets see what Mou thinks

[CHOULO19 24,332]

So how do you allow Mata to roam freely on the wing AND provide protection to the full-back?

Simple. You play 4-3-3 with:

Cech

Back FOUR

MIKEL

Ramires-Oscar

Mata Hazard

Striker

It's amazing how our managers insist on playing 4-2-3-1 when 4-3-3- would solve so many of our problems.

[English Freak 456]

All I know is we didn't have shit for creativity until he came along and despite countlessly bailing this team's asses out time and time again, for multiple managers, bloggers are starting little fires and whispers like the link posted a while back about how he's a weak link. How come Hazard is fucking untouchable? These players aren't perfect. All I know is he was the best thing to happen to this club when he arrived. Now two more attacking mids arrive and suddenly he's keeping the club from becoming better? These two arrived and so far this club hasn't won jack shit and yet Juan is suddenly the weak link? I don't think so. He'd have double the assists right now if Torres wasn't the striker, maybe then there would be more goals and Juan's defensive inefficiencies wouldn't even be discussed because Chelsea would be winning games more comfortably. There's flaws in this squad for sure I just don't think Mata is the one to focus on. Instability with managers and pissing away 50 million dollars on a player who has given up on himself are the big ones for me.

But wasn't Torres one of the reasons behind Mata choosing Chelsea in the first place?

The Spanish connection has helped us gain a quality player in Mata....just like Arteta used his Spanish roots to help Arsenal sign Cazorla and Monreal.

[Blue Armour 4,165]

It's amazing how our managers insist on playing 4-2-3-1 when 4-3-3- would solve so many of our problems.

Its true, but like Torontochelsea suggested, they might feel it would reduce Mata and Hazards involvement in the build-up play. Its also unfortunate that Rafa's a 4-2-3-1 manager. I think he did try a 4-3-3 once (which failed) but with the wrong personnel.

Those teams were generally very good defensively. We had a great back 4 and players like Essien, Mikel, Ramires (not to mention Kalou who, if nothing else, did his defensive duties). Besides, we were smashing lots of teams then. If we start scoring 5 and 6 goals all the time, then we don't exactly have to worry about defensive shape. The problem with the 4-3-3 for us is that our two best players this year have pretty easily been Hazard and Mata and the 4-3-3 makes them less important. De-emphasizing your best players just doesn't make sense to me.

Its a sacrifice perhaps, but that depends on the player in that position right? When Anelka played, he also served as one of the creative focal points for the team (I remember in 09-10 when our build-up play suffered when he was out injured for a couple of weeks)..I think Mata can perform a similar role (perhaps even better)...Its not like say, playing Kalou and giving him a very specific set of instructions to follow in the match, thereby restricting his role. (which is good for Kalou)

[Styles 9,790]

Agree with the view that Oscar should be given license to play inside andrealise his potential. I don't think Mata is suited to playing centrally and is much better floating inside from a wide position.

Against Juventus at home and Shakthar at home, two very good sides, Oscar was comfortably our best player. I haven't seen Mata put in two great performances like that against teams on that level from a central position.

[kellzfresh 7,226]

Nice article in the previous page. The fact that all our best games this season (tottenham, arsenal, juve first half, norwich, manutd before torres red card) came with both mata and oscar rotating positions in the middle, with oscar there most of the time, proves that there is some truth to that article. Both oscar or mata in the center have their risks.

PROBLEM
When oscar plays centrally, he presses and we win back the ball better, but that means mata in the wing and we are punished on the flanks since mata doesn't really press.

Once mata plays center, we are dominated through the middle but safe on the flanks.

SOLUTION
So when we come up against teams that use wing play, play mata in the middle and moses on the flanks and oscar on the bench.

When we come up against teams that play through the middle then use oscar in the middle and mata on the flanks.



A funny fact is Once oscar plays in the center, our formation becomes like the 4-3-3 we all want when we defend.

Mikel ramires
Oscar

Mata. Hazard
Ba

Compared to this

Mikel ramires

Oscar Mata Hazard
Ba

[Mundaka 243]

Or we can lighten the defensive work mazacar has to do by putting a defensive pivot that stays in position?

mikel-luiz

mazacar

ba

& next season luiz back to defence

mikel-kdb

mazacar

ba/lukaku

mazacar could roam more like this

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

The view that I take, is that Oscar has the potential to be one of the best players in the world. Already he's shown glimpses of just how good he can be especially in the Champions League, but also at international level. Now that's not say say Mata hasn't been great for us because he has but this is about incorporating both players into the same team whilst getting the best from each of them.

If we're going to look at Oscar as a player we're going to keep around then I think we have to make a commitment to him and build the team around him. That's a gamble, but one I think has a tremendous upside and also allows Mata to play on the wing still.

What Mata needs to do in that instance is work on his workrate and perhaps even his fitness. How many match threads do people make comments about him needing to be rested because he looks a bit tired? I'd say at least 35-40% of them. At some point that stops being a quirk and starts becoming a hinderance - the same hasn't been said anywhere near as much about Oscar.

I would say this is another of our first-world problems like the Cech/Courtois debate but this is much more fundamental to the way the team is going to play in the next 5 years. We're talking about the heartbeat of the team here and which player serves us best going forward.

We spent £20 million on Oscar's potential - at some point you actually have to try and turn that potential into reality and I think the game against West Brom showed just what he can do. Yes he should've finished those chances but it was encouraging to see him get in those positions, arriving late into the box, splitting defenders and finding space and even creating his own shooting opportunities from the edge of the area. Maybe it's something we leave until the summer, but at some point we are going to have to choose especially if we get a coach like Jose who likes players to do their jobs defensively with the odd exception.

I understand what you're saying but don't agree. You can't build a team around potential and hope to win. WBA was probably Oscar's best Premier League game, but Mata has had probably ten games better than that this season. Yes, we spent 20 or 25M on Oscar, but we also spent 23M on Mata and Mata is actually our best player. De-emphasizing a legitimate player of the year candidate for someone who hasn't scored a single goal from open play and has been much worse is craziness. It we had to choose between them, right now it would be absolutely no contest. That said, I see no reason why they both can't get plenty of games in the middle of the pitch.Oscar doesn't need to start 50 games in the middle to get better and Mata doesn't need to start 50 to be effective. We play 60 games a season. The issue is that the trio of Mata, Oscar, and Hazard is likely to always be imbalanced and problematic. It really never made any sense to spend almost all our money in the last two seasons on players who all play the same position when he had/have so many other holes. We now have insane talent and depth at attacking midfield and very little anywhere else.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Among other news he switched Nike shoes with Adidas.

[Jusek 2,031]

Among other news he switched Nike shoes with Adidas.

Yeah, same with Torres.

[xPetrCechx 13,548]

Yeah, same with Torres.

So mata will not score anymore?!

[The only place to be 11,313]

I understand what you're saying but don't agree. You can't build a team around potential and hope to win. WBA was probably Oscar's best Premier League game, but Mata has had probably ten games better than that this season. Yes, we spent 20 or 25M on Oscar, but we also spent 23M on Mata and Mata is actually our best player. De-emphasizing a legitimate player of the year candidate for someone who hasn't scored a single goal from open play and has been much worse is craziness. It we had to choose between them, right now it would be absolutely no contest. That said, I see no reason why they both can't get plenty of games in the middle of the pitch.Oscar doesn't need to start 50 games in the middle to get better and Mata doesn't need to start 50 to be effective. We play 60 games a season. The issue is that the trio of Mata, Oscar, and Hazard is likely to always be imbalanced and problematic. It really never made any sense to spend almost all our money in the last two seasons on players who all play the same position when he had/have so many other holes. We now have insane talent and depth at attacking midfield and very little anywhere else.

See I can see where you're coming from, but sometimes you have to look at a player's ceiling and how good they could be. We spent £20 million on a 21 year old - you're always buying potential at that age so you can't then make decisions based on him only having potential. We're also ignoring the Champions League games where he's scored 5 goals from open play in 6 matches, and gave what I think is the performance of the season against Juventus.

Mata at his absolute best is probably close to where he is now. I truly believe Oscar has the potential to be the best player in the world. Yes they could share time but in crunch games I'd definitely be looking to start Oscar in the middle and build the whole team around him. In that scenario we still need Mata and I'd put him on the right-wing but he needs to work on his defending and that's what any new coach should focus on in the summer.

If we're not going to use Oscar like that and we're simply going to use him as a winger then we should sell him now. I'm a football fan first and foremost and I really don't want us to ruin or under-utilize what could be a once in a generation talent simply because we're focusing on the short-term once again.

Edited March 5, 2013 by The only place to be

[English Freak 456]

See I can see where you're coming from, but sometimes you have to look at a player's ceiling and how good they could be. We spent £20 million on a 21 year old - you're always buying potential at that age so you can't then make decisions based on him only having potential. We're also ignoring the Champions League games where he's scored 5 goals from open play in 6 matches, and gave what I think is the performance of the season against Juventus.

Mata at his absolute best is probably close to where he is now. I truly believe Oscar has the potential to be the best player in the world. Yes they could share time but in crunch games I'd definitely be looking to start Oscar in the middle and build the whole team around him. In that scenario we still need Mata and I'd put him on the right-wing but he needs to work on his defending and that's what any new coach should focus on in the summer.

If we're not going to use Oscar like that and we're simply going to use him as a winger then we should sell him now. I'm a football fan first and foremost and I really don't want us to ruin under-utilize what could be a once in a generation talent simply because we're focusing on the short-term once again.

Well said. I definitely think Oscar > Mata in terms of effectiveness in the middle.

[Korea 734]

Actually, wasn't Torres more relevant in CL last year in comparison to Mata..