Super Frank Thread

[the wes 7,212]

Lamps needs to sort out the defence or else we are going to leak a lot of goals this season 

[Vesper 27,351]

1 minute ago, the wes said:

Lamps needs to sort out the defence or else we are going to leak a lot of goals this season 

and our fucked up zonal marking on set plays

unless that is part of what you meant by defence

[NikkiCFC 7,595]

4 hours ago, BlueLion. said:

The last three games have, simply put, been a real reality check. 

In all three matches, we have started absolutely superbly, genuinely playing some of the best football I've seen Chelsea ever play. Yet in all three matches, a lack of composure and an inability to convert chances has meant we stand here with a draw and two defeats from three competitive matches. 

I think we need to be realistic and consider the pros and cons of the situation, which ultimately will determine our season's ambitions.

I think there are plenty of positives right now. As I've mentioned, the brand of attacking football we are playing is making us an enjoyable watch (which is our fanbase's greatest criticism of the former manager), and the biggest plus point is the belief in youth players. Chelsea have needed a season like this for the past decade. We have never truly transition properly from one squad to the next. Our approach has also been so short-termist that, instead of bringing through youngsters (the odd exception aside), we've chosen to spend big and either invest in young foreign players, or go for players that can still function and perform well, but perhaps have already seen their better days - players such as Pedro, Giroud, David Luiz, for example. We have the propensity to make a negative situation (the transfer ban) a positive one by bringing through these young players and giving them considerable game time, which is something of a premium when it comes to our talented youngsters. We have a terrific academy and we are now in a position where we both have to, and need to, play these youngsters and give them the shot they deserve. Mason Mount is the biggest, most obvious evidence of this transition. We've been putting it off for years and years, but necessity dictates that this is the time to give these players the chance to shine. We also have to consider the fact that we are, realistically, missing three first XI players, meaning things will improve in terms of squad options and that we haven't yet seen our best team, playing our best football. Nobody can argue that Rudiger is our best defender; on recent evidence, whilst Pedro has had three promising games for us, CHO is probably more productive in the final third, and the player who I believe to be our best box-to-box midfielder, RLC, is yet to come into the team. We also have Reece James, who I will reserve judgement on, but Lampard seems to think he will play a considerable role this season, but we need to make sure we aren't doing the usual thing of putting too much pressure on the young man. That being said, he can't be any worse than Azpilicueta, but that's a separate debate...

But there are some major problems inherent within the squad. There is a flipside to every situation - and playing kids is no exception. There's the famous quote - "You won't win anything with kids" - and to some extent this does ring true. The reason that we have gone out and invested frequently is because, at a club like Chelsea, there is such an expectation to win (- that expectation needs to be relaxed this season, which I'll come onto later). Then there are issues with Frank. I want to make this clear: this is not a post bashing Frank Lampard. I am 100% behind him, though I do believe his tenure has come at the wrong time, though only time will tell with regards to this. But we need to accept the obvious: this is Frank's second season as a manager. Look at today - I am furious with his decision to play ten of the eleven that started on Wednesday, and think it was incredibly naive to do so against a team like Leicester, who are one of those horrible teams that press you and push you and harass you for 90 minutes and would do for another 90 if they could. Whilst he's got us playing a good brand of attacking football, this is the worst we've been defensively in quite some time. Having Rudiger back in the team will add more balance (Andreas is good enough, but Kurt panics on the ball and doesn't have the composure that Rudiger has; with the style of football we're employing, that is a big disadvantage), but we need to especially look at the way that we are dealing with crosses and set pieces at the minute. There are then issues within the squad from an attacking point of view - we have a lot of players who are good around the box, but not necessarily with that final phase of play. We are not a crossing team and we don't necessarily have many players who can play killer through balls. More importantly, our striking options are poor. Let's be honest. Giroud is an honest striker and links the ball nicely; he'll get us 10-15 goals a season reliably, but who is replacing the Hazard x-factor and the ability to pull a rabbit out of the hat? Is it Mount? I'm not so sure, though he took his goal well today. 

The point I'm making is this: we have to relax our ambitions this season. I'm sorry guys, I really don't think we are going to finish in the top four. You can't write us off in the cup competitions, but I can realistically see us struggling in the UCL without a favourable group draw. I'll leave it up to you as to whether you think I'm being reactionary or otherwise (I don't much care either way), but I think we need to ease the pressure on the boys. Short-term pain could be of massive long-term gain. We need to consider youth development as being the priority this season, that is the target and playtime is the reward. A trophy or four would be nice, of course, but this is a case of building for the future. We also need to think about the expectation of Frank as our manager. He will learn so much from every minute. He is level-headed and I think we need to be about the current situation. There is no need for doom and gloom - I think we have been really unlucky so far - but we need to temper our expectations somewhat. 

I agree. I won't be disappointed if we don't get top4. I really don't have any expectations in terms of results. But I hope we can be a hit of the season like Ajax last season. They had 5,6 young players with breakthrough season and every football fan in the world now knows about them. So if, let's say after this season Mount is worth 70m, James 50m, CHO and Pulisic close to 100m and others too I will consider season successful. It's not really about money because we won't sell them anyway I just tried to explain it in simple words. This will mean those young players had great season and we can count on them in the future. It will save us a lot of money also. 

[Magic Lamps 11,452]

42 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Lampard has a lot of potential and this team has a lot of potential. But Lamps messed up with the starting line up. I think that Barkley should have started with Mount, so Jorginho could have gotten some rest. Jorginho was one of our best players against Pool and he run his ass off that day. A fresh Barkley with Mount, who did not play that much against Pool, would have given us more stability and especially a better pressure off the ball. I also wanted to start Willian, but I don´t think that would have done anything good today.

I think that Lamps should give Batsman a chance next week, even though I don´t think that he is suited for Lamps system. But Batsman can score goals. He may not be involved in much else, but he can score goals at least sometimes and we currently need a goalscorer. Giroud is not a goalscorer and Tammy is very good for the last 20 minutes.

Also guys, don´t forget that RLC is injured and he was one of our best players last season. His physicality combined with his technique is something that Chelsea really need in midfield. CHO is also injured and he is way better than Willian. Also, CHO can cross the ball and with Giroud and Tammy, we have great headers. It is pretty sad that we currently have no good crossers at all. James is also injured and Azpi is getting worse every season and this is probably his last season as a starter for this club. James is a beast and he can cross too.

We had three tough matches a  the beginning of the season and we have phases in the game where we look very good, Last season under Sarri, I remember that we had matches, especially against the big teams, where we looked awful 90 minutes straight. Lamps improved our fluidity in our offensiv phase. Our weakness is probably that we don´t have the enough concentration in our midfield and we lack in goalscorers.

I agree mostly. I thing Tammy is an absolute shitty header of the ball tho. He usually dives underneath crosses like today. I think midfield is the least of our worries. The defence does not really join the pressing and pushes high, so we usually hav e alot of space between midfield and defence for teams to exploit. I really would like to see Bats in this system. His hold up play might be shit but he has the legs to press so he should be able to learn it. Our chances come from playing quick and not building from the back where we would need a big target man anyway. I am not even sure Lamps knows what a nice little poacher Bats is. Maybe he is just like Demba Ba someone who is absolute useless in training but still scores his fair share in games. I understand that Giroud had to be kept on cos he scored and it would have meant throwing Tammy under the bus. But now both have sucked so I think it is Bats turn. Willian, Pedro, Tammy (we need a catchy name for it maybe Tamwilledro) is the most frustrating offense. one i want to never see again but probably will. Miles worse then Anelkalouda. I dont get the insistence on Tammy. Lamps obviuosly has his darlings, especially Mount. But the little fella is a brilliant player, full of energy, pace, determination and can actually score goals. Tammy is absolutely useless. Even Lukaku was better at 20. Already had 17 EPL goals under his belt at that age. 

But yeah our defence is shit as well. Usually you would expect a chelsea side to get a 1-0 over the line. There are phases were you are shit in any game like Souness said and then you have to make sure you do not concede. But we still played like we were chasign the game and were all over the place in midfield. And part of this was due to faitgue but also i think lamps can improve the tactics on running afte rlosing the ball. Azpi's decline and Pedro consistently losing balls in dangerous positions does not help either. But our right side was clearly target by Leicester yeseterday. Only when Willian came on to do fuck all they attacked his side as well. 

We are under pressure now and need to win the next two games 100%. I expect us to do so and would have even if we had 6 instead of 1 point in the bag right now. 

 

[Henrique 9,133]

As soon as Lampard was appointed manager I entered in the "I don't care mode" for this season. I just hope he is given time to develop something useful, but I still think his appointment never made sense in the first place.

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

Agree Jody Morris will be useless as a no2.

I don't know how good of a coach lamps is on the training ground. I have doubts about it.

All good managers have assistant coaches which bare a burden on the training ground. Avram grant got the guy from Barcelona. Jose had Steve Clarke. Ferguson had the Portuguese fella.

Coaches like Pepe and sarri are kinda uncommon in how hands on they are on the training pitch.



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[Superblue 6,331]

Yesterday was extremely underwhelming after such a bright start in the first 20 minutes. I think the first 20 minutes is an indicator of how Lampard wants us to play and if we can sustain that for the first half (which to be fair we did against United and definitely against Liverpool) then I do think we have the capability of blowing some teams away this season. We have to be more clinical and sharp in front of goal but I think that will come and right now we just really need a couple of wins to get some confidence flowing all around. 

That attacking style is a big contrast to a lot of the slow and drab play from last year and as long as the chances are being created I do think the goals will start to come. I've always felt we've generally been quite a slow starting team over the years and so it's refreshing seeing us coming out of the traps early and putting the opposition on the back foot. City and Liverpool last season did this a lot and killed the game off in the first half, allowing them to control and wear down opponents further in the second half and I think that is where we're trying to head towards.

I'm definitely prepared to accept tiredness as a big factor yesterday. We completely dropped off a cliff and the last hour of the game was a terrible watch. Maybe Lampard could have changed it up a bit with his line up but we don't have a huge amount of options and quality in reserve at present with a few out. We were cut open at will yesterday, there was so much space between the lines for Leicester who themselves are a decent possession based team and they should have capitalised and beat us. The last 10 minutes of the game was disappointing too as we seemed to get a bit of a second wind but everything became frenetic as we tried to push for a winner and instead left ourselves even more open to the counter. That's where we need a bit more calmness and composure in our play too. I can imagine the adrenaline was there to try and kick the season off at home with a win and I'm certainly not against the mindset of not settling for a draw despite us struggling, but the execution needs to be far better. 

I am still happy to reference that Liverpool game however as proof that given time, patience and players returning back, Lampard can get us playing the way he wants with an exciting attacking intent but also be more compact without the ball. Like many have alluded to already however, there will be inconsistency this season and it will be a steep learning curve for Lampard and the younger players, and it will also be an opportunity to see if some of the more experienced players can step their games up to fill the void of Hazard (Willian's 'cameo' yesterday was pathetic but he also didn't look anywhere near fit either and maybe he's rushed himself back to try and help the team when we're light on players in those positions).

These next 2 games before the international break are massive. Take the wins from them and it will settle everything down, get some confidence and momentum within the side and should have us in a reasonable position in the league.

[communicate 2,703]

2 hours ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Yesterday was extremely underwhelming after such a bright start in the first 20 minutes. I think the first 20 minutes is an indicator of how Lampard wants us to play and if we can sustain that for the first half (which to be fair we did against United and definitely against Liverpool) then I do think we have the capability of blowing some teams away this season. We have to be more clinical and sharp in front of goal but I think that will come and right now we just really need a couple of wins to get some confidence flowing all around. 

That attacking style is a big contrast to a lot of the slow and drab play from last year and as long as the chances are being created I do think the goals will start to come. I've always felt we've generally been quite a slow starting team over the years and so it's refreshing seeing us coming out of the traps early and putting the opposition on the back foot. City and Liverpool last season did this a lot and killed the game off in the first half, allowing them to control and wear down opponents further in the second half and I think that is where we're trying to head towards.

I'm definitely prepared to accept tiredness as a big factor yesterday. We completely dropped off a cliff and the last hour of the game was a terrible watch. Maybe Lampard could have changed it up a bit with his line up but we don't have a huge amount of options and quality in reserve at present with a few out. We were cut open at will yesterday, there was so much space between the lines for Leicester who themselves are a decent possession based team and they should have capitalised and beat us. The last 10 minutes of the game was disappointing too as we seemed to get a bit of a second wind but everything became frenetic as we tried to push for a winner and instead left ourselves even more open to the counter. That's where we need a bit more calmness and composure in our play too. I can imagine the adrenaline was there to try and kick the season off at home with a win and I'm certainly not against the mindset of not settling for a draw despite us struggling, but the execution needs to be far better. 

I am still happy to reference that Liverpool game however as proof that given time, patience and players returning back, Lampard can get us playing the way he wants with an exciting attacking intent but also be more compact without the ball. Like many have alluded to already however, there will be inconsistency this season and it will be a steep learning curve for Lampard and the younger players, and it will also be an opportunity to see if some of the more experienced players can step their games up to fill the void of Hazard (Willian's 'cameo' yesterday was pathetic but he also didn't look anywhere near fit either and maybe he's rushed himself back to try and help the team when we're light on players in those positions).

These next 2 games before the international break are massive. Take the wins from them and it will settle everything down, get some confidence and momentum within the side and should have us in a reasonable position in the league.

I wont use Liverpool game as reference. In that game we played medium block and play on the counter plus in 2nd half the after firmino came in, everything change. 

So far our chances came from out intense pressing, but you basically need to kill the game in 20/30 min because high pressing take a lot of you. 

 

[communicate 2,703]

17 hours ago, Vesper said:

and our fucked up zonal marking on set plays

unless that is part of what you meant by defence

Everyone use zonal marking especially when you have only 3 tall players. Alonso was the 1st choice lb last season mainly due to his height. 

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

Too soon to judge how this team will end up wins all or fails miserably. As I said earlier, if this situation continue in the next 10 games or so, Lampard will be sacked for sure. Then new manager won't do anything worse than him. If Lampard capable to quickly sort things up, top 4 is still on a reach though. Any other achievement will be a bonus.

[NikkiCFC 7,595]

3 minutes ago, RoyalBlues said:

Too soon to judge how this team will end up wins all or fails miserably. As I said earlier, if this situation continue in the next 10 games or so, Lampard will be sacked for sure. Then new manager won't do anything worse than him. If Lampard capable to quickly sort things up, top 4 is still on a reach though. Any other achievement will be a bonus.

No he won't. Any other achievement? Top4 is over achievement this season. Frank won't be sacked even if he finish 11th. 

[communicate 2,703]

2 minutes ago, RoyalBlues said:

Too soon to judge how this team will end up wins all or fails miserably. As I said earlier, if this situation continue in the next 10 games or so, Lampard will be sacked for sure. Then new manager won't do anything worse than him. If Lampard capable to quickly sort things up, top 4 is still on a reach though. Any other achievement will be a bonus.

As long as we are not in or close to relegation zone, Lamp won't be sacked 

[communicate 2,703]

After 3 games, people will hate me by saying this but we probably need Willian to get fit and play his best. He will slow down our offense and we need that. 

 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

Just now, communicate said:

After 3 games, people will hate me by saying this but we probably need Willian to get fit and play his best. He will slow down our offense and we need that. 

 

His best? His best was done for when we last won the title. You wont see peak Willy ever ever again my friend.

[communicate 2,703]

10 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

His best? His best was done for when we last won the title. You wont see peak Willy ever ever again my friend.

But after 3 games, It is obvious we need one more less direct player. Kova, Jorginho are good combination but we can't play that combination if we want to play Mount. So we need one more player to play kova or Jorginho role. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

3 minutes ago, communicate said:

But after 3 games, It is obvious we need one more less direct player. Kova, Jorginho are good combination but we can't play that combination if we want to play Mount. So we need one more player to play kova or Jorginho role. 

Yes I get what your saying......but Willy is def not the answer imo. Hasnt been for a long time.

[communicate 2,703]

1 minute ago, Atomiswave said:

Yes I get what your saying......but Willy is def not the answer imo. Hasnt been for a long time.

We have no other solution. Willian is the only player with that characteristic in our team 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

Just now, communicate said:

We have no other solution. Willian is the only player with that characteristic in our team 

We dont need to slow anything down mate, just be more solid and be better in possession.