Ramires

[Barbara 15,149]

his situation is very similar to Mata in the last two years. When we had a dire AM for years, Mata arrived and it seemed like the second coming. Rami looked absolutely amazing in the terrible pivot we've had for so many years. Now we have some class and a technical player at Matic and he makes Rami look really, really, really poor.

Yes, there's the stamina, the pace, even the tackles, and all those things are good, but they're not enough, simple as that.

Has he scored some important goals? For sure, to which I'm very thankful. Did he carry our pivot for a while? Yes, he did. Doesn't change the fact he is very poor technically and a very frustrating player...

Now we have Matic we should be raising our stakes. We have pace in Salah and André, we don't need to keep Ramires simply because of his versatility playing as a RW, but Mourinho won't give up on a player like him... unfortunately. I've never been a fan of his, but his good doings for us in the last couple of seasons made me forget how I used to dislike him... now he seems to remember me of that every match (even though I haven't watch today's and don't plan to)

I wish we had a better partner for Matic. We needed someone that was like Lamps on his best days. That's the perfect partner for Matic as he (Matic) can hold himself in the DM position well enough. Either we get a new Lamps or we get a more defensive midfielder and morph Matic in a new Lamps. Either way, the time has come when Ramires shouldn't be more than a squad player in this team and we should accept offers for him if they come (and they're good). Having Matic but not having someone as good to be his partner only attenuates the problem. Matic is a HUGE improvement to our pivot(infinitely more than Rami was when he settled - let's not forget it took him almost two seasons to settle), but to capitalize everything he can bring to us, we should get him a better partner. Maybe van Ginkel could be the one - for the future. Haven't seen enough of Marco to say it. I just wish we had someone better than Ramires...

I agree with everyone who's said he wouldn't be a starting player in any top-class team in the world. Why should we accept it then? It has nothing to do with ungratefulness - people tend to relate you wanting an improvement with not respecting the past and services done by a player - but this is about us being in a new level now and therefore requiring a better pivot. We won't make it to the next level of competitiveness with the best in Europe with Ramires as our indisputable midfielder... it makes no sense

[lionsden 4,689]

what he offered last year was 90 minutes of continual high energy play ,,, now Willian gives that with a little better control ..

Little?. I'm sure you meant much much better control as he's the second most technically gifted player in our squad just behind Hazard.

[oman43 45]

his situation is very similar to Mata in the last two years. When we had a dire AM for years, Mata arrived and it seemed like the second coming. Rami looked absolutely amazing in the terrible pivot we've had for so many years. Now we have some class and a technical player at Matic and he makes Rami look really, really, really poor.

Yes, there's the stamina, the pace, even the tackles, and all those things are good, but they're not enough, simple as that.

Has he scored some important goals? For sure, to which I'm very thankful. Did he carry our pivot for a while? Yes, he did. Doesn't change the fact he is very poor technically and a very frustrating player...

Now we have Matic we should be raising our stakes. We have pace in Salah and André, we don't need to keep Ramires simply because of his versatility playing as a RW, but Mourinho won't give up on a player like him... unfortunately. I've never been a fan of his, but his good doings for us in the last couple of seasons made me forget how I used to dislike him... now he seems to remember me of that every match (even though I haven't watch today's and don't plan to)

I wish we had a better partner for Matic. We needed someone that was like Lamps on his best days. That's the perfect partner for Matic as he (Matic) can hold himself in the DM position well enough. Either we get a new Lamps or we get a more defensive midfielder and morph Matic in a new Lamps. Either way, the time has come when Ramires shouldn't be more than a squad player in this team and we should accept offers for him if they come (and they're good). Having Matic but not having someone as good to be his partner only attenuates the problem. Matic is a HUGE improvement to our Ramires (infinitely better than Rami was when he settled - let's not forget it took him almost two seasons to settle), but to capitalize everything he can bring to us, we should get him a better partner. Maybe van Ginkel could be the one - for the future. Haven't seen enough of Marco to say it. I just wish we had someone better than Ramires...

I agree with everyone who's said he wouldn't be a starting player in any top-class team in the world. Why should we accept it then? It has nothing to do with ungratefulness - people tend to relate you wanting an improvement with not respecting the past and services done by a player - but with us being in a new level now and therefore requiring a better pivot. We won't make it to the next level of competitiveness with the best in Europe with Ramires as our indisputable midfielder... it makes no sense

We obviously have different views, look at my favourite player lol. But that isn't a bad thing, its the point of these forums. I see Matic and Rammy as different players to be honest, you seem to think now Matic has come Ramires' vulnerabilities are shown. Well OK I agree to some extent but look at it in a different light. What Ramires can do which Matic can't? Run box to box for 90 or even 120 minutes, score goals (yes we obviously havent had time to see Matic) etc. Why after literally ONE game is everyone criticising Ramires? we lost not because of him, but for many reasons. Don't be rash in your judgement.

[Barbara 15,149]

We obviously have different views, look at my favourite player lol. But that isn't a bad thing, its the point of these forums. I see Matic and Rammy as different players to be honest, you seem to think now Matic has come Ramires' vulnerabilities are shown. Well OK I agree to some extent but look at it in a different light. What Ramires can do which Matic can't? Run box to box for 90 or even 120 minutes, score goals (yes we obviously havent had time to see Matic) etc. Why after literally ONE game is everyone criticising Ramires? we lost not because of him, but for many reasons. Don't be rash in your judgement.

No, I've been criticizing him for a while. Check match threads. He's had a great start of season for us. But he's poor... a great athlete as some qualified, but technically he's poor. For the things we'll be aiming in the future he isn't enough. For the Chelsea of the past years and even the present Chelsea he's enough, but not really for the future. That's my point. Matic exposes how bad our pivot has been (all of it, not only Rami and Rami's been our best midfielder in the past couple of years) and that if we could improve it, we'd be much more competitive. It's all about where the stakes are and I think they'll be higher next season. If Mourinho wants us to be the very fave in the league and real contenders in UCL, then we need to give Matic a better partner.

[oman43 45]

No, I've been criticizing him for a while. Check match threads. He's had a great start of season for us. But he's poor... a great athlete as some qualified, but technically he's poor. For the things we'll be aiming in the future he isn't enough. For the Chelsea of the past years and even the present Chelsea he's enough, but not really for the future. That's my point. Matic exposes how bad our pivot has been (all of it, not only Rami and Rami's been our best midfielder in the past couple of years) and that if we could improve it, we'd be much more competitive. It's all about where the stakes are and I think they'll be higher next season. If Mourinho wants us to be the very fave in the league and real contenders in UCL, then we need to give Matic a better partner.

Fair points. Your giving Matic a lot of responsibility (building the team on him in a way) considering we haven't seen a lot of him since his return!!!??? (He has looked the real deal don't get me wrong.) You talk of a young team building for the future, well ramires is 26, hardly incapable of learning/adapting? Like I have said on other threads, you need a combination of qualities in a team, hard workers/ goal scorers / flashy players. Ramires gives the team what JM wants. He'll never be the best player in the team, doesn't mean he isn't useful!

[dee25 1,044]

I love Ramires. Every time he touched the ball though.....

[Barbara 15,149]

Fair points. Your giving Matic a lot of responsibility (building the team on him in a way) considering we haven't seen a lot of him since his return!!!??? (He has looked the real deal don't get me wrong.) You talk of a young team building for the future, well ramires is 26, hardly incapable of learning/adapting? Like I have said on other threads, you need a combination of qualities in a team, hard workers/ goal scorers / flashy players. Ramires gives the team what JM wants. He'll never be the best player in the team, doesn't mean he isn't useful!

actually is the opposite, because I don't feel we should overload Matic as we did with Ramires - and leading them to be overplayed - and the fact that not only Matic doesn't have Rami's stamina, but his own level of it isn't that great, we should give him a partner that won't make the team rely on him more than it should. It really doesn't solve our pivot if we keep overloading one of the two players because their partners are sub-par. Matic is what we need, but we don't need only him, otherwise we're partially wasting the investment by overplaying the guy and getting him exhausted.

If Matic had Rami's stamina, then I'd probably be less emphatic about an improvement.

I know Rami gives something special. Why can't we find someone who gives us energy and stamina, but also technical quality? City has it with Fernandinho, I'm sure we can find it with someone else. I'm not saying Rami doesn't have his qualities, I'm just saying he's not good enough...

[zolayes 14,489]

Little?. I'm sure you meant much much better control as he's the second most technically gifted player in our squad just behind Hazard.

fair comment

[Henrique 9,133]

Runs and runs and runs and runs, but the lack of a consistent, quality touch will always let him down.

What might save him from being sold is his versatility and stamina, but I'd prefer a more composed presence in the pivot so that we can control games better.

Yeah, playing game after game under Mourinho, and what MIGHT save him is his versality and stamina.

[Henrique 9,133]

Always thought he was a terrible footballer technically but an unbelievable athlete. hate saying this, but he's frustrating to watch with the ball in his feet. terrible passer with an awful first touch but Mourinho loves him and I can understand why. I'd have Matic any day of the week ahead of him.

I think its really strange how people love new players. Just wait weeks and months to choose Matic over Ramires. This is the 2nd time I watched Matic in his return (I was travelling untill days ago). Some people said he was great against City, but to be honest today he was just average. He received lots of votes for the man of the match, but its just the "new face in town" effect. Won some challenges but I just get feeling he is little bit harsh, most of his challengers end up as a foul. Well, only my 2nd game impression, it takes more than one big game against City to evaluate a player.

Its just really odd how many people voted for a DM for man of the match when for the 90% of the 2nd half West Browinch had lots of space in the midfield.

[Henrique 9,133]

I wish we had a better partner for Matic. We needed someone that was like Lamps on his best days. That's the perfect partner for Matic as he (Matic) can hold himself in the DM position well enough. Either we get a new Lamps or we get a more defensive midfielder and morph Matic in a new Lamps. Either way, the time has come when Ramires shouldn't be more than a squad player in this team and we should accept offers for him if they come (and they're good). Having Matic but not having someone as good to be his partner only attenuates the problem. Matic is a HUGE improvement to our pivot(infinitely more than Rami was when he settled - let's not forget it took him almost two seasons to settle), but to capitalize everything he can bring to us, we should get him a better partner. Maybe van Ginkel could be the one - for the future. Haven't seen enough of Marco to say it. I just wish we had someone better than Ramires...

I agree with everyone who's said he wouldn't be a starting player in any top-class team in the world. Why should we accept it then? It has nothing to do with ungratefulness - people tend to relate you wanting an improvement with not respecting the past and services done by a player - but this is about us being in a new level now and therefore requiring a better pivot. We won't make it to the next level of competitiveness with the best in Europe with Ramires as our indisputable midfielder... it makes no sense

1- Lampard in the old days would not be playing in the pivot. Even tough some supid commentators in Brazil said such a thing back then, Lampard was never a DM. Morphing Matic into a new Lampard does not make sense at all, and if such a thing happens it means Matic wont be playing in the pivot.

2- As someone said before, you are suggesting that Mourinho should build a midfield around Matic. Just wait a while before jumping into those kind of conclusions. Matic is a good player, yeah, but he was playing in portuguese league and Chelsea was the only big european club really interested. He is far from a HUGE name, he might be one day.

3- In the beginning of the season Ramires was one of our most consistent players, and now we have this kind of silly comment: "its time to sell Ramires because we got Matic".

4- You just wish we had a better player than Ramires. I just wish we had a "proper" RB, instead of Ivanovic, I just wish we had a proper LB, instead of a so-so RB playing out of position, I just with we had a better player than Hazard (Messi or Ronaldo would have killed the game today, right), a better player than Willian (Ronaldo and Messi instead of Hazard and Willian would be a HUUUGE improvement, what do you think), I just wish we had better DM than Matic (Xuaistaiger would be perfect, or perhaps we could buy Iniesta and Xavi and morph them into a proper DM player).

Just saying you want a better player than Ramires is not enough. Who are those players? are they available? How they will fit in Mourinho system? Mata is a better player than Salah, no question about that, but Salah is just better to what Mourinho want him to do. Thats why one was sold, and the other one just arrived.

Football is complicated. Coming to a football forum and complaining about a player's weakness is easy. Thats why we have NBA All Stars game. You can choose all the best players in the world in every position, and all you have to do is a "click".

[Strike 7,217]

Runs and runs and runs and runs, but the lack of a consistent, quality touch will always let him down.

What might save him from being sold is his versatility and stamina, but I'd prefer a more composed presence in the pivot so that we can control games better.

this guy will be shockingly bad. Bosingwa level when he loses his pace/stamina. still a good squad player till then

[Joe Ay 66]

I'm of the view that Rami is a tremendous player for us if we're set up to play on the break, where his burning pace and stamina can exploit gaps in the defence and open up room for others. But against teams that sit back and deep, he doesn't really add much to our play as we need someone more controlled and composed.

I think Rami is best suited to play in the big games where we let other teams take the initiative and while we play on the counter. Against the smaller teams like WHU or WBA, might be worth exploring playing Oscar in the pivot with Matic, having Hazard as CAM and having Schurrle / Salah on the wings with Willian.

[Strike 7,217]

1- Lampard in the old days would not be playing in the pivot. Even tough some supid commentators in Brazil said such a thing back then, Lampard was never a DM. Morphing Matic into a new Lampard does not make sense at all, and if such a thing happens it means Matic wont be playing in the pivot.

2- As someone said before, you are suggesting that Mourinho should build a midfield around Matic. Just wait a while before jumping into those kind of conclusions. Matic is a good player, yeah, but he was playing in portuguese league and Chelsea was the only big european club really interested. He is far from a HUGE name, he might be one day.

3- In the beginning of the season Ramires was one of our most consistent players, and now we have this kind of silly comment: "its time to sell Ramires because we got Matic".

4- You just wish we had a better player than Ramires. I just wish we had a "proper" RB, instead of Ivanovic, I just wish we had a proper LB, instead of a so-so RB playing out of position, I just with we had a better player than Hazard (Messi or Ronaldo would have killed the game today, right), a better player than Willian (Ronaldo and Messi instead of Hazard and Willian would be a HUUUGE improvement, what do you think), I just wish we had better DM than Matic (Xuaistaiger would be perfect, or perhaps we could buy Iniesta and Xavi and morph them into a proper DM player).

Just saying you want a better player than Ramires is not enough. Who are those players? are they available? How they will fit in Mourinho system? Mata is a better player than Salah, no question about that, but Salah is just better to what Mourinho want him to do. Thats why one was sold, and the other one just arrived.

Football is complicated. Coming to a football forum and complaining about a player's weakness is easy. Thats why we have NBA All Stars game. You can choose all the best players in the world in every position, and all you have to do is a "click".

Matic is the DM. since Chelsea play 2 players in the middle most of the times, Midfielder next to him would ideally have better technique/passing than Ramires. . Toni Kroos is apparently available listening to what Guardiola is saying at Bayern. there's also Pogba, Gundogan, back problems aside all quality options. also van ginkel, romeu

[kellzfresh 7,229]

his situation is very similar to Mata in the last two years. When we had a dire AM for years, Mata arrived and it seemed like the second coming. Rami looked absolutely amazing in the terrible pivot we've had for so many years. Now we have some class and a technical player at Matic and he makes Rami look really, really, really poor.

Yes, there's the stamina, the pace, even the tackles, and all those things are good, but they're not enough, simple as that.

Has he scored some important goals? For sure, to which I'm very thankful. Did he carry our pivot for a while? Yes, he did. Doesn't change the fact he is very poor technically and a very frustrating player...

Now we have Matic we should be raising our stakes. We have pace in Salah and Andr¨¦, we don't need to keep Ramires simply because of his versatility playing as a RW, but Mourinho won't give up on a player like him... unfortunately. I've never been a fan of his, but his good doings for us in the last couple of seasons made me forget how I used to dislike him... now he seems to remember me of that every match (even though I haven't watch today's and don't plan to)

02

I wish we had a better partner for Matic. We needed someone that was like Lamps on his best days. That's the perfect partner for Matic as he (Matic) can hold himself in the DM position well enough. Either we get a new Lamps or we get a more defensive midfielder and morph Matic in a new Lamps. Either way, the time has come when Ramires shouldn't be more than a squad player in this team and we should accept offers for him if they come (and they're good). Having Matic but not having someone as good to be his partner only attenuates the problem. Matic is a HUGE improvement to our pivot(infinitely more than Rami was when he settled - let's not forget it took him almost two seasons to settle), but to capitalize everything he can bring to us, we should get him a better partner. Maybe van Ginkel could be the one - for the future. Haven't seen enough of Marco to say it. I just wish we had someone better than Ramires...

02

I agree with everyone who's said he wouldn't be a starting player in any top-class team in the world. Why should we accept it then? It has nothing to do with ungratefulness - people tend to relate you wanting an improvement with not respecting the past and services done by a player - but this is about us being in a new level now and therefore requiring a better pivot. We won't make it to the next level of competitiveness with the best in Europe with Ramires as our indisputable midfielder... it makes no sense

Exactly, ramires is now reminding me of how he used to be during ancellotis days.

He is just having a bad run of form like a normal player, but his technical liability just seems to make things worse. I suggested that lamps should be starting against the smaller teams because he offers a lot going forward. But ramires is very good in the big games.

I honestly don't think he'll be able to start for Brazil in the world cup. What are the Brazilian fans saying about him in Brazil?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

He had a bad game yesterday, but talk about exaggeration...To begin with, no one had an outstanding game for us, no one, so it's not like it was only Rami who under-performed. Plus, we all know that his biggest assets has always been his energy and his runs which he obviously can't do when opponents sit deep. He always plays worse against teams that defend deep, we already know that.

[Mufassir08 2,400]

I have always said that Rambo is a great player to have in the squad.Whenever you play he'll play with his heart and soul not to mention he is very very effective against teams who will attack us in numbers but he'll look useless against teams which wont give him space to run into like West Brom.Next season we really should buy a proper DLP so that we can use Rambo in the most effective way,He'll still be a crucial part of the team just not an out and out starter like he is nowadays.

[The Chels 2,502]

A good squad option but he should really be no more than that given how many mistakes he makes in a match. To those that keep defending Ramires, are you honestly saying that you aren't worried about him giving the ball away or breaking down an attack pretty much every time he gets the ball? Because I am, and I'm sure a lot of others are too. I can't understand why Mourinho likes him at all, tbh. Even a 35-year-old Lampard, whose natural position is not the pivot, offers more than Ramires does there. If only he were younger then I'm sure he'd definitely play more often over Ramires. Really hoping we can get a good CM to partner Matic in the summer but I'm not too hopeful as I think we're just looking for a striker and possibly a LB.