Enzo Maresca Thread

[Vesper 28,289]

On 03/06/2024 at 16:05, Mário César said:

When I look at him I see such a lack of personality 

I see a empty person

 

sorry we could not plate up Big Sam for you

[Vesper 28,289]

How much like Pep Guardiola is Enzo Maresca?

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5549110/2024/06/10/enzo-maresca-pep-guardiola-Chelsea/

 

It is easy to see why so many comparisons are made between new Chelsea head coach Enzo Maresca and the man he used to be assistant to at Manchester City — Pep Guardiola.

Beyond their similar physical appearance, Maresca has adopted a football philosophy that could have been drawn straight out of the Guardiola playbook.

The circumstances of Maresca’s move to Manchester City in 2020 should serve to confirm the similarities to — or at least his suitability for — Guardiola.

City were looking for a new under-23s manager and sporting director Txiki Begiristain put forward Maresca’s name, having heard good things about him from former City boss Manuel Pellegrini, who coached Maresca at Malaga in Spain.

Maresca was part of Pellegrini’s backroom staff at West Ham United and Begiristain, always planning for the future, was keen to get him on board in some capacity, with half an eye on pairing him up with Guardiola — or possibly even succeeding him — in the future.

Having emerged as the strongest candidate for the position following a round of interviews, he led a fine City team to the club’s first ever Premier League 2 title before being picked up by Parma. After a season there, he returned to City to join Guardiola at last in 2022, as part of his first-team staff.

So, how similar are Guardiola and Chelsea’s new man in charge?

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Tactical approach and football philosophy

Maresca studies managers and their playing styles from around the world, using folders on his laptop to keep track of teams that he thinks have been playing well or are worthy of further investigation, with a particular focus on patterns of play and modern tactical trends.

His research serves as an archive of footballing knowledge and coaching methods that he has, in some cases, tried to implement himself, and has also allowed him to establish the way that he wants his own teams to play.

That was one of the aspects that impressed Begiristain and others in the City academy during his first stint in Manchester but it was not just about style. “He was a winner. That stood out straight away,” says one source, speaking on the condition of anonymity to protect their position.

He has certainly demonstrated that with his success coaching City’s under-23s and being part of the treble-winning staff, and besides a 13-game spell at Parma, he has carried on that winning trend with Leicester City, leading them back to the Premier League at the first attempt.

He demanded high standards from everyone around him at Leicester and dedicated himself to long hours at their Seagrave training base.

Maresca is very much his own man, completely wedded to his philosophy, but without doubt, Guardiola will have had an influence on his approach.

He and Guardiola were in close contact throughout that 2020-21 season, while he was under-23s boss, in part due to the Covid-19 bubbles; contact was often limited with other people inside and outside of the training ground during that time, and so people inside their bubbles generally spent a lot of time together, but it is said that Maresca was the first under-23s boss to really make a connection with Guardiola. Due to their shared vision of the game, those two, Juanma Lillo and Begiristain spoke often, long before Maresca joined Guardiola’s first-team staff when he returned from Parma.

During Maresca’s time with City’s under-23s, he moved a full-back into midfield to provide an extra body before Guardiola found success by using Joao Cancelo in the same way. Guardiola was no stranger to doing that long before that season, of course, but it is thought that the two discussed it before deploying it with their own teams.

Guardiola’s own playing style is strongly defined and although some basic principles are non-negotiable — to dominate possession, to “run like bastards” — he does constantly adapt to the players he has, for example, shifting City towards a false-nine system in 2021 and 2022, only to integrate Erling Haaland since then.

When Jose Mourinho was manager of rivals Manchester United, Guardiola took exception to Mourinho being called pragmatic, arguing that he too could be pragmatic, just in a different way: through possession.

Maresca is committed to his ‘idea’ of dominating possession, moving the ball to move the opposition, with a full-back playing on the inside in front of a back three, with a high front five. It looks familiar.

However, so far, he has refused to compromise on his philosophy, although there were subtle tweaks in the system to counter stubborn opponents that Leicester faced, such as moving the inside full-back forward to make a front six.

Both are tactical sponges, always looking to learn and develop from all sources, not just within football. Maresca studied chess to draw parallels with tactical thinking — Guardiola has also noted similarities with the game — and took a lead on how to man-manage his City players from famous composer Leonard Bernstein.

Man-management

The following paragraphs will scream ‘Guardiola’.

During Maresca’s time with City’s under-23s, according to sources close to the team, he had ‘players and staff hanging on every word’, as one put it. He is described as “phenomenal” in terms of “how he would deconstruct the game in a way that players could understand simply, but he would also not suffer with anyone”.

Leicester players have stated similar numerous times this season how effectively and quickly he could get his ideas across, although when the message wasn’t sinking in quickly enough, Maresca wasn’t shy to vent to frustration.

With the City under-23s, Maresca established a culture where he picked his teams on merit. That may sound obvious but there were several examples of highly rated youngsters who usually trained with Guardiola, conferring an air of seniority and quality, but if their attitude was not right, they were not selected. The new Chelsea boss is still in touch with some of his old City youth-team players.

 

Maresca had two spells at Manchester City (Lindsey Parnaby/AFP via Getty Images)

At Leicester, Maresca dropped young winger Wanya Marcal completely before a game against Rotherham United, despite him performing well and scoring his first goal for the club the week before against Cardiff City, because he didn’t like the way he trained afterwards.

Guardiola has abided by that mantra ever since the earliest days of his coaching career, jettisoning Ronaldinho as soon as he took the reins at Barcelona. To this day, he will not pick players with attitude problems or those who have complained about being left out. Joao Cancelo found that out abruptly at the start of last year and plenty of others have, too.

Guardiola’s man-management can be as hard to pin down as his match-day tactics: when the players are at their lowest moments, he will be closer to them. He will shower them with love in training sessions but very rarely explain his line-up decisions. Sometimes aloof, sometimes overbearing. The general rule is that, as long as he feels you are pulling in the right direction, you’re fine.

Maresca was similarly supportive of striker Patson Daka when he was on a tough run of form in the second half of the season, continually picking the Zambian, despite criticism, to show faith in him.

Overall, both have taken the football knowledge of those willing to learn to another level.

As Riyad Mahrez once said of Guardiola: “I thought I knew football to a decent degree when I came. Pep made me feel like I knew nothing. He’s opened my eyes to so much. He’s kind of reinvented my brain.

At Leicester, defender James Justin was equally impressed with Maresca. “I was in my mid-twenties when he joined and I thought that I knew about football before he came. It turns out I knew just the tip of the iceberg.”

Approach to the media

Guardiola will often detect either a trap or a criticism in a question, or at least provide an answer that he believes cannot be misconstrued by bad-faith actors online.

While the media spotlight was not so strong on Maresca last season in the Championship, he interacted with the media in a similar fashion, sometimes even coming across as overly sensitive.

In his early days at City, Guardiola never felt the need to get close to journalists behind the scenes, choosing not to do the established trend of a pre-season sit-down interview with local reporters. Ultimately, he would have felt that he did not need any extra help or goodwill, and that extended to some of his spikier/stranger public comments, such as his “I’m so happy, Happy New Year” effort seven years ago.

 

(Oli Scarff/AFP via Getty Images)

Generally speaking though, Guardiola is great from a journalist’s point of view: he can be insightful enough to help explain what he wants his teams to do, he is willing to talk about wider issues (he is rarely as engaging as when he has to become club spokesperson during an FFP crisis) and the bottom line is that you rarely leave a press conference feeling bored.

Similarly, Maresca was at his best when he was asked a tactical question, seizing on the opportunity to explain in detail his approach. He looked less keen to have to be the club spokesman when the club was being accused of profit and sustainability rule breaches by the EFL and Premier League.

GO DEEPER

How and why Chelsea hired Enzo Maresca - and the seven things they were looking for

Touchline temperament

If Guardiola generally keeps his cool in the media, it is a different story on the touchline. He will never criticise referees publicly but he is one of the more argumentative inside his technical area, making his displeasure known either through sarcastic claps and thumbs-ups, or the more traditional shouting in the ear.

For somebody who says “body language is life” and wants his players to be positive in their efforts, he can get incredibly tetchy when things are not going to plan and he will berate his players if he feels the need to.

Generally speaking, though, his touchline antics are usually confined to wild hand gestures and sinking to his haunches in fear when the opposition have a set piece or come forward on the break.

Maresca, who doesn’t adopt Guardiola’s casual fashion sense on the touchline and is the quintessential tracksuit manager, is slightly less theatrical but still incredibly animated, especially when a big goal is scored. He was booked for running on the pitch to celebrate Harry Winks’ late winner at West Bromwich Albion in December. That was one of three bookings he received for his touchline behaviour and he served a ban against Ipswich Town in January.

 

Maresca celebrates with his Leicester players during their win over Birmingham in April (Plumb Images/Leicester City FC via Getty Images)

Dealings with hierarchy

At City, any idea of friction with the hierarchy is laughable. There have been times when Guardiola and his people have been frustrated at the failure to land a transfer target, but that is about as dramatic as it gets and even that negativity fades away overnight.

Guardiola has been close with Begiristain for years; they share exactly the same footballing philosophy, which again speaks to Maresca’s views, and although the City boss does not always agree with the club’s decisions — if he could do pre-season in Europe every year, he would do — there has never been a suggestion, during eight years, of any kind of rift or even a situation that needed to be resolved.

City have basically built everything around Guardiola and things have been a lot calmer than at his previous clubs.

How Maresca handles the various challenges of managing Chelsea will also be something to keep an eye on.

At Leicester, he had good support in terms of the biggest budget in the Championship last season and got most of what he wanted in the summer transfer window, but he wasn’t slow to express his frustration when he was told he would have to sell to buy in January when the club’s PSR worries started to emerge, a development Maresca said publicly he hadn’t been warned about when he first took the Leicester job.

Maresca is a strong, demanding character, who will not shy away from clashing with authority if he feels it is justified: whether that be referees or his club’s upper management.

It will be interesting to see how he handles the co-sporting directors at Chelsea.

[milka 3,335]

The same  trust the process  nonsense learned from scenarios  as Pochettino said last year at this time . He needs to think about how to win a trophy  (Conference League and FA Cup/Carabao are a must after 1bn spend) as well as a place in the top four which doesn't seem likely to happen.
 

[Pizy 18,318]

I personally really like what I’ve seen from these training videos so far. This is the sort of coach I feel like we need. One who is like Pep or Arteta who are obsessive micromanagers and demand that the players do precisely what he wants. So one who will do a lot of actual coaching DURING MATCHES rather than just standing quietly in the touchline with their arms folded like Poch did.

Poch seemed more like a figurehead sort of coach much like Mourinho surely is at this point. They have a general philosophy but the actual training and coaching is mostly done by his assistants.

Poch prioritized work rate and running a lot. The hope is that Maresca prioritizes tactics, positional mastery, and quick thinking play. Which it appears he’s doing already.

[OneMoSalah 8,751]

On 08/07/2024 at 22:36, bluesman2610 said:

I don’t know why I’m getting excited after watching the day one training video but this can not be underestimated 

5 hours ago, Pizy said:

I personally really like what I’ve seen from these training videos so far. This is the sort of coach I feel like we need. One who is like Pep or Arteta who are obsessive micromanagers and demand that the players do precisely what he wants. So one who will do a lot of actual coaching DURING MATCHES rather than just standing quietly in the touchline with their arms folded like Poch did.

Poch seemed more like a figurehead sort of coach much like Mourinho surely is at this point. They have a general philosophy but the actual training and coaching is mostly done by his assistants.

Poch prioritized work rate and running a lot. The hope is that Maresca prioritizes tactics, positional mastery, and quick thinking play. Which it appears he’s doing already.

The clubs social media team posted similar videos after first week of pre-season with Poch. And likely with any other manager we’ve had when they’ve first came in. And folk were probably eating it up the same.

Hate to burst anyones bubbles but it is literally just videos of him shouting instructions at players for a training exercise. Which is part of his job. Every manager/head coach/coach leading drills does this. And a clip of him saying “every day we need to work”… MP must of said this in the media about 2 trillion times last season also, didn’t see people getting excited then 😂

Once we get a look at some pre season football, irrespective of the results although wins would be nice, then we will really have something to use to judge Maresca’s work.

I am hoping he can deliver a style along the lines of which Sarri did in all fairness in terms of building the game and playing out under pressure. Maybe controversial but I think in terms of getting from the first third to the final third, we made a lot of progress. Attacking wise not so great but think that there were multiple things why that was an issue. Not really the philosophy as such. Pep comparisons always going to be a bridge far too far for any manager, yet alone a guy with 1 year experience in the Championship. 

Edited July 10 by OneMoSalah

[DH1988 1,258]

I was beyond hopeful after preseason with Poch, the attitude and pressure combined with runs and passing was very impressive, and yes, did we all get hoodwinked by it, I could say I believe a very high percentage of people here did - With the caveat that yes we all understand it's preseason, I saw the signs of what we'd been lacking, some fight, chasing every ball. When the season started it became evident of how lacking intellectually on what to do, when to do it, and no I'm not saying footballers have insane IQ, but we lacked footballing IQ that wasn't covered up by running an extra km.

I firmly believe our squad is quality, no doubt, we need improvement, no doubt, however it needs COACHING. It seems so odd to say but I refer back to an interview of Harry R talking about Frank L regarding Mudryk, don't quote word for word but it was along the lines of "Harry this kid Mudryk has got it all, the ability etc but just doesn't know what to do on a pitch, where to be". Had we won the Carabao cup, I think Poch would have still been here and it would be a catalyst for us to mature, sadly it would paper over the cracks.

Im not a poster that claims to know encyclopedic knowledge of everything about Ligue 1, I rely on you guys, I don't know his time at PSG beyond 2-3 matches and CL, and sometimes the game passes managers by. Jose is the unfortunately best example of that at the top level.

[Vesper 28,289]

Chelsea under Enzo Maresca: How will they line up defensively?

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5627972/2024/07/11/Chelsea-maresca-defence-chilwell-cucurella-james/

Balance is the state that all coaches strive for their teams to reach, and it proved elusive for Mauricio Pochettino at Chelsea last season.

During his sole season as Chelsea head coach, Pochettino revived an attack that had slumped to historic lows under predecessors Thomas Tuchel and Graham Potter. With 77 goals in their 38 Premier League matches, Chelsea had the division’s fifth-most-prolific attack, at times played thrillingly incisive football, and scored at a sufficient rate to be on the fringes of the Champions League qualification picture with five straight wins on the run-in.

But they did not earn a place in UEFA’s blue-riband club competition, nor the second-tier Europa League, because Chelsea’s attacking improvement came at the cost of their worst defensive campaign since the Premier League era began in the early 1990s: 63 goals conceded, the ninth-most in the division. Chelsea made cheap errors, suffered communication breakdowns, over-committed to attack and were too easy to carve open in transition.

New head coach Enzo Maresca has not been hired as Pochettino’s replacement because he is a defensive specialist. His tactical philosophy is similar to Pep Guardiola’s approach — having worked under him at Manchester City in two separate spells over the past four years — and prioritises defending with possession. But how the back line is structured in different phases of the game is vital to the integrity of his system, and it will make new demands of the defenders at his disposal.

Those demands will likely shake up the west London club’s defensive hierarchy. Here is a closer look at how that might play out…

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Maresca’s favoured starting formation as Leicester City manager last season was 4-3-3, but for the bulk of their 46 Championship matches, they were arranged in more of a 3-2-4-1 shape.

Ricardo Pereira, the nominal right-back, shifted infield into the base of midfield alongside Harry Winks, giving the three remaining defenders another forward passing option and freeing up the two attacking midfielders — the left-sided one was Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall, who has followed Maresca to Chelsea — to push higher into the attacking half-spaces.

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One aim of this tactic was to give Leicester numerical superiority in the middle of the pitch, offering greater control in possession and more options to progress the ball upfield. Another was to better equip the team to defend counter-attacks, with two players holding their positions in midfield to protect those three defenders.

Maresca would even instruct Pereira (or Hamza Choudhury, when the Portugal international was absent) to hold his midfield position when Leicester lost the ball, in order to keep the team in a better shape to press high and quickly win it back. Only if the opposition evaded the initial press and kept the ball did Pereira return to his right-back post — which, given that Leicester enjoyed 62.3 per cent possession on average in the 2023-24 Championship on their way to the title, was not very often.

Chelsea will surely look similar in 2024-25.

The first consequence of that will be for the full-backs, who will no longer be called upon to provide an attacking threat with overlapping or underlapping runs. Instead, one will stay back to remain part of a three-man defence while the other pushes into central midfield, forming half of a double pivot.

Last season, Maresca always inverted his right-back into midfield, but there are already signs that he at least wants the option of doing the same thing with his left-back at Chelsea. While not guaranteed to be an immediate first-team signing, Renato Veiga has been signed from FC Basel in Switzerland because he is considered capable of functioning in defensive midfield, as well as on the left of a back three.

Marc Cucurella has similar positional flexibility, having showcased his ability to invert into midfield under Pochettino in the final stretch of last season. Deploying Cucurella in a three-man defence is dicier since his small stature (172cm/5ft 8in) makes him a target for opponents to exploit with back-post crosses. Levi Colwill, at almost 6ft 2in, is far better aerially and can lean on his left-back experience gained last season, though he sometimes struggles when defending in space against fast wingers.

The odd man out here looks to be Ben Chilwell, a more conventional full-back who excels at surging up the left to support attacks.

Pinning him in a back three wastes arguably his best attribute, but Chilwell lacks the experience of moving into midfield and navigating small central spaces. Regardless of whether Maresca inverts from the left or the right of defence, his fit is unclear.

Reece James might be Maresca’s best choice to invert into the base of midfield.

His close control and passing range are far beyond those of a typical full-back, and he played the vast majority of his first season in senior football as a central midfielder while on loan at Wigan Athletic in the 2018-19 Championship, English football’s second tier. The only issue is that, for long stretches of his Chelsea career, James has been one of their most dangerous attackers, supplying pinpoint crosses and cutbacks from the right.

Even if James is Maresca’s first choice for the role, he will need to explore alternatives during the upcoming pre-season, partly because of the 24-year-old’s lengthy injury history and partly because he will miss the first three Premier League games of 2024-25 through suspension after a straight red card against Brighton & Hove Albion in the penultimate match of last season.

Malo Gusto also possesses the technical quality to potentially adapt to the role, having played as a No 10 for much of his youth career at French club Lyon, but he too is a potent crossing threat further forward. With the possible exception of Cucurella, all of Chelsea’s full-backs would require varying degrees of adaptation to operate at the base of midfield and “move in the traffic”, as Maresca puts it.

His system will also place new demands on the centre-backs and goalkeepers.

The middle defender in Maresca’s back three is a key player.

With the ball at his feet, he must identify and find the free man in midfield. Against opponents who congest the middle third of the pitch, that free man might actually be the No 9 dropping deep or one of the wingers, isolated against their full-back. It is a role that requires tactical intelligence, a high level of technical proficiency and reliable decision-making.

Thiago Silva, the man who occupied that role in the middle of Tuchel’s back three, is no longer at the club. All of the other centre-backs who featured under Pochettino got exposed, to varying degrees, by a less heavily structured system that tended to disintegrate under duress.

Of those available to Maresca, Colwill and Benoit Badiashile might be the most technically accomplished passers, though both will need guidance and practice in setting the passing rhythm of their team. Tosin Adarabioyo was signed as a free agent after leaving Fulham in part for his comfort level on the ball, and Trevoh Chalobah has played a lot of football as a defensive midfielder.

The other centre-back in the three-man unit must be comfortable defending wide areas in transition scenarios, on the left or the right depending on which full-back has inverted into midfield. Wesley Fofana (provided he is truly back physically), Badiashile and Chalobah are all athletically equipped to do that. Axel Disasi was also used as a right-back by Pochettino but rarely looked comfortable there, and may face the biggest challenge in convincing Maresca he can play his system.

In moments when opponents press Chelsea’s three-man defence, Maresca will want the goalkeeper to push up and become the free man in a de facto back four.

When they receive the ball, his ’keepers are under strict instructions to pass it short; last season Leicester’s No 1 Mads Hermansen launched passes 40 yards or more only 17.8 per cent of the time. His distribution skewed even shorter than Chelsea counterparts Robert Sanchez and Djordje Petrovic, who launched the ball long 21.3 per cent and 22.1 per cent of the time respectively.

Sanchez is expected to begin the coming season in the team and produced stretches of solid short distribution during the previous one. But there were also enough slow decisions and passing errors to make Chelsea fans very nervous, and ultimately Pochettino lost faith in him. Replacement Petrovic took fewer risks on the ball but turned over possession with long kicks more frequently as a result.

It is hard to shake the feeling the new head coach lacks a great option here.

---

Chelsea should improve defensively in 2024-25.

Maresca’s approach of keeping five outfield players behind the ball when in possession is very similar to that of Tuchel, who built the most formidable defensive structure in European football at Stamford Bridge virtually overnight after being appointed in January 2021 and laid the foundation for a remarkable Champions League final triumph four months later.

The current squad does not boast anywhere near the level of experience Tuchel inherited back then, but Pochettino set a historically low defensive bar for his successor. As long as he obtains and maintains a good level of buy-in from the players, Maresca should have no problems clearing it.

A trickier question is whether Maresca can maintain the attacking potency Chelsea found under Pochettino while keeping five players behind the ball to defend transitions. Tuchel’s early success was built on an impenetrable defence and a smart, smothering press, but offensive production eventually nosedived as Chilwell and James succumbed to injury, individual attackers lost confidence and opponents found more effective ways of disrupting a mechanical style of play.

James in particular is unlikely to be the attacking weapon he was under Tuchel in Maresca’s system. More of that creative burden will instead fall on the two No 8s, one of which is often likely to be Dewsbury-Hall, who must prove he can scale up his impressive Championship production last season (12 goals, 14 assists) now he’s back in the Premier League.

The ripple effects of such a tactical change will be fascinating.

In his search for balance, Maresca will be forced to make some bold judgements on which of Chelsea’s defensive players he trusts the most — and his thinking should become clear early in pre-season.

GO DEEPER

How much like Pep Guardiola is Enzo Maresca?

[YorkshireBlue 3,118]

https://youtu.be/5XFuVqQwbl8?feature=shared

[Vesper 28,289]

 

'Argentina song stained glory of Copa victory'

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cpe39n00ng2o

 

Argentina won the Copa America, but lost the respect of many with the manner of their celebration.

Midfielder Enzo Fernandez faces disciplinary proceedings at Chelsea after posting a video on social media that the French Football Federation said included alleged "racist and discriminatory language".

Fifa is also investigating the video, in which several members of the Argentina squad - celebrating their 1-0 win over Colombia in the final - take part in a song originally sung by Argentina fans questioning the heritage of France's black and mixed-race players.

The global repercussions of that song have sparked a reaction from the Argentine government.

Javier Milei's right-wing administration has no natural sympathy for anything that might be considered 'woke'.

But Julio Garro, the under-secretary for sports, suggested that team captain Lionel Messi and local FA president Claudio Tapia should issue an apology for the song that some were singing on the bus on Sunday night. "It's left us looking bad," he said.

Garro was sacked, external on Wednesday for his comments, while others have rejected the need for an apology.

With monotonous and depressing regularity, when teams from Argentina play opponents from Brazil in continental club competitions, there are scenes in the stands of Argentine fans making monkey gestures.

When interviewed, the perpetrators vehemently deny that they are racists. They are indulging in 'banter'. All is fair, they argue, in love, war and football. Anything that goads and irritates the opposition is fair game. And on this latest matter, such sentiments are widespread.

The attempts from Argentine clubs to crack down on this behaviour have often been half-hearted, with references to 'xenophobia' - instead of calling it what it is: racism.

Especially depressing is the fact that this behaviour has been exhibited by some of the players. Here there is no excuse.

With the exception of Lionel Messi and back-up goalkeeper Franco Armani, the entire squad is based in Europe.

These players are part of multi-national, multi-cultural, multi-racial squads. They should know much better. Quite apart from any possible sanctions, there could be some very awkward dressing-room moments when they report back for pre-season training.

Why do they do it?

One of the attractions of national team duty for these players is the chance to be together with people from their own culture, and sing their own songs.

It is a chance for them to be aggressively and assertively Argentine.

Many aspects of the country's fan culture are wonderful. The songs can be hypnotic.

But the lyrics to this particular song, which grew out of the Qatar World Cup final, which Argentina won on penalties against France, are extremely disturbing.

The Argentine players risk not only insulting their black team-mates and fans. These songs insult their own heritage.

It is rare these days to see a black Argentine. But that has not always been the case.

Going back to the days of Spanish colonial rule, the country imported far fewer enslaved Africans than neighbouring Brazil, and put an end to slavery decades earlier. But around two hundred years ago, Buenos Aires was a third black.

What happened to this population?

There are many theories, ranging from outbreaks of yellow fever to deaths in the war for independence.

The most coherent idea, though, is simply that they were swamped by the millions of immigrants pouring in from Europe and the Middle East (especially Italy - Argentines speak Spanish with an Italian intonation) in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

The African influence is there in the gene pool. Dark-skinned people are often nicknamed 'el negro' - which carries no negative connotation.

African influence has left its mark. Argentina's most significant cultural product is tango. The word is African, and the music and dance, like so many genres of the Americas, are the consequence of the mix of African, European and indigenous styles.

Because of its socially lowly origins, tango was looked down upon by the Argentine elite, seen as a vulgar phenomenon - until it took Paris by storm in the early 20th century and was thus legitimised.

Incidentally, it is interesting that (just like samba in Brazil), tango in Argentina moved in the opposite direction from football. The musical genre began at the bottom of society and moved up, where football started with the elites and moved down.

A friend of mine is a black Uruguayan sociologist.

You might expect him to have a good radar for these things, and he lived for years in Buenos Aires without experiencing the slightest problem.

On the other hand, the mere presence of so many European immigrants in the south cone of South America was an explicitly racist project.

At the time, there was a fashion for eugenic ideas - the belief that some 'races' were superior to others.

South American leaders sought to 'improve' and 'civilise' their countries through importing a white labour force.

The very presence, then, of so many European descendants in Argentina is the consequence of racist thinking.

The idea of a hierarchy of races has never entirely gone away, and has emerged in all its horror in the lyrics of the song with which some of the Argentina players stained their glory on Sunday.

 

[King Tunechi 0]

I’m so scared Enzo Maresca would be too stubborn to change his formation and that would ruin us this season 😭. Having 3 defenders as our back line in front of the keeper has always resulted in us conceding lots of goals! I remember playing Brighton when Potter was in charge, Mitoma, and March really destroyed us

[calculatingInfinity 1,443]

So how long do we give him, 6 months until he is fired and Todd and Egbhali wants a new manager and style? 

[OneMoSalah 8,751]

I am already struggling to see how he will survive past this season based on our defence alone in 180 minutes of pre season football.

I am sorry but honestly if we defend like that against PL teams week in week out, we will be back to square 1 with another new manager and another new direction.

The guys playing in the back 4 aren’t kids either, these are apparently players of a very good/reasonable pedigree in Reece, Levi, Fofana, Badiashile, Tosin…. 

Edited July 27 by OneMoSalah

[robsblubot 3,457]

Well, W. Fofana is playing without legs, so gotta give him some credit for that.

Now, "can they do it on a cold rainy night in Stoke"? 😆

City moved the target way beyond our reach. Then Arsenal followed suit. We have no choice really as the positional game is simply better for the PL, so we either simply give it up and focus on cups, yup even CL, or we embrace Maresca's way and try to implement it here.

Nope not with these players I'm afraid, so it needs some tweaking over a window or two. I can see a lot of disappointment from people who believed in the strategy so far: it was not really that good for Maresca's way of play.

Positional play defending isn't all about the CBs. So, I'm not that worried about that atm.

Edited July 28 by robsblubot
positional

[Fulham Broadway 16,666]

The best past teams have a longstanding defender or keeper who is a leader, a shouter - JT, Adams, Ferdinand, Van Dyck, Maldini etc we should focus on such. Rudi could have been that talisman instead of which we tend to offload them and then end up with a load of headless chickens not knowing what each other is doing. 

Mid table mediocrity this season again, Clownlake will try to spin it all, selling more tat along the way

[King Tunechi 0]

Enzo Maresca has to grasp the reality that Reece James is better playing on the flanks, this crap formation worked on Leicester but not going to work with this Chelsea team. And when we say the formation worked for them let’s not forget that the our crap team under poch still knocked them out in the cup with the almight Enzo Maresca crap tactics of last season that was so admirable that our owner had to frigging go and get him instead of trying to bring in Alonso or even Zidane! All I can say is that our owners have made the same mistake they did with potter and we are going to need another high profile coach like poch to come back and restart another process again! That said, don’t expect champions league football for the next 3 years 

[Mhsc 853]

24 minutes ago, King Tunechi said:

Enzo Maresca has to grasp the reality that Reece James is better playing on the flanks, this crap formation worked on Leicester but not going to work with this Chelsea team. And when we say the formation worked for them let’s not forget that the our crap team under poch still knocked them out in the cup with the almight Enzo Maresca crap tactics of last season that was so admirable that our owner had to frigging go and get him instead of trying to bring in Alonso or even Zidane! All I can say is that our owners have made the same mistake they did with potter and we are going to need another high profile coach like poch to come back and restart another process again! That said, don’t expect champions league football for the next 3 years 

It is basically the same system that Pep and Arteta play with some minor twists from Maresca himself. It is the same system that has been winning the PL basically nonstop.

Reece James is obviously one of the best fullbacks in the world when bombing forward but he's also completely unable to stay fit when playing like that. Obviously, we could play 3 ATB with James and Chilly as wingbacks again, and it would get results for the 2 to 3 games that the both stayed fit and before people start to figure out the system again, as they did at the end of Tuchel's reign. It is a 2nd tier system that has been displaced by the new approach which is the one you are campaigning against. But it would work for a little while and make everyone feel real good, for sure. A short term sticking plaster to make you feel good. Maresca could even do that in preseason. But instead he's putting in the grind for long term success instead of chasing short term highs in meaningless preseason games.

Edited July 28 by Mhsc

[Fulham Broadway 16,666]

Concede and everyone looks at each other, then shrugs.

Its all a load of bollocks without a leader(s) on the pitch

[Astleyfox 3]

21 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Concede and everyone looks at each other, then shrugs.

Its all a load of bollocks without a leader(s) on the pitch

Im sorry lads, but I see him gone by Christmas. He is so rigid in his approach, that his “system” is easily negated by half decent opposition. We were so far ahead after the first third of last season, without even looking the part. As soon as everyone sussed the silly disappearing fullback rubbish, they just exploited the space behind him. Enzo clung desperately to his ways, and nearly blew a 17 point gap to the play offs. Luckily, Leeds melted as usual and we scraped through. Bear in mind, we were playing in the second division with a squad I could have got promoted. Ive heard the same sound-bytes we got. “Trust the process”, being a favourite. It is an open secret that player power forced a change in approach for the run in, to get us over the line. 
  The worse thing for me, was the crushing boredom and frustration of watching it, same stupid mistakes, game in, game out. I actually stopped watching for the first time in fifty years, and Ive watched some shilo! I couldnt believe you actually took him!