West Ham 3-1 Chelsea

[Pizy 18,368]

I’m not going to panic yet. We’ve shown long spells of fantastic football in both matches so far as I’m seeing David Moyes say in quotes after this match. This isn’t last season’s team. We ARE capable of playing very well.

We need Poch to slaughter the lads in training all week and whip their asses into shape even more. These silly, schoolboy errors are the undoing of us time and again.

We need to beat Luton next weekend and we need to do so convincingly. Get that first W on the board and build confidence.

[JFKvsNixon 35]

1 minute ago, robsblubot said:

Sure, but handling that pressure is one of the main, and obvious, challenges of playing for a big club. That's why it's so hard to get there and then deliver; why most big clubs have few super young players starting for them.

The pressure is well-paid for in both transfer fee and wages.

That's the way it is: big club equates big pressure. 

I'm sorry but money doesn't come into it. Learning to handle pressure, is a process that lots of these young players are on, and it'll be a lot easier journey if they felt that they had the support of their own fans.

 

I'm massively disappointed by today's result, as you can tell by my posts. I'm just going to have to suck it up though rather than take it out on the players.

[robsblubot 3,504]

6 minutes ago, JFKvsNixon said:

I'm sorry but money doesn't come into it. Learning to handle pressure, is a process that lots of these young players are on, and it'll be a lot easier journey if they felt that they had the support of their own fans.

 

I'm massively disappointed by today's result, as you can tell by my posts. I'm just going to have to suck it up though rather than take it out on the players.

yeah suppose we will have to agree to disagree on this one. For me it's that simple: if a player isn't ready he should not be starting for any top club. His age shouldn't matter.... you can have 1-2 players getting minutes to acquire that experience, but that should be a slow process, unless the player is truly ready.

The real risk here, by utilizing too many young players at once, is to lose them; like negatively affect their progression because of the lack of support from more experience/composed players who would help them with game situations they've never faced before.

Once again, I have never seen a super young team succeed at this level. I'm trying to go back and remember a single case of relative success, but I just can't.

Edited August 20, 2023 by robsblubot

[OneMoSalah 8,778]

21 minutes ago, Nero said:

Mudryk looked incredible in the pre-season. But Poch took away his confidence.

When will people learn? Never judge a player fully on a pre season. They are meaningless games to get match fitness, performances aren’t particularly truthful as each teams are in different stages of fitness etc.

Jesus if I mind right, van Ginkel looked impressive against Khedira and Alonso v Real Madrid 9 years ago but it didn’t mean anything in any real games as he was shocking v Basel in a competitive game.

Poch took away his confidence give me a break

Edited August 20, 2023 by OneMoSalah

[JFKvsNixon 35]

5 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

yeah suppose we will have to agree to disagree on this one. For me it's that simple: if a player isn't ready he should not be starting for any top club. His age shouldn't matter.... you can have 1-2 players getting minutes to acquire that experience, but that should be a slow process, unless the player is truly ready.

The real risk here, by utilizing too many young players at once, is to lose them; like negatively affect their progression because of the lack of support from more experience/composed players who would help them with game situations they've never faced before.

Once again, I have never seen a super young team succeed at this level. I'm trying to go back and remember a single case of relative success, but I just can't.

Just think about what you are saying.

You want to agree to disagree about whether or not we should get behind the players/team/squad/club and offer them all the support we can, rather than being too quick to write them off. Especially so considering the age of the team and the amount of ridicule that they're currently facing.

[Vegetable 830]

Don't know what to think about this tbh. I feel like most of us want to believe something that his hardly possible, yet we still fool ourselves and hope it will happen anyway. We have a team built practically from scratch, based on young, often overpaid players from mid-table clubs and leagues way below PL level. The potential is huge, but potential is just potential. Skill-wise, sometimes it's hardly an improvement over what we had (Mudryk, Madueke anyone?). We all want them to magically hit the ground running, but realistically thinking, it may take a while and will take a lot of work and Poch's headache to get this stuff going. So starting from here, we actually play some decent football sometimes, but I'll say it again, there will be a lot of such games. A lot of dumb errors or the PK situation is a proof why some experienced players could be of use here. What worries me more, than result itself is that once again we seem reliant on James and Nkuku and that's not a good sign.

Don't know if Caicedo critique is serious or just a casual trash-talk banter, but yeah, we overpaid, like, twice for him and that's how it is. It's quite possible that him and Enzo are not the goat players who will win silverware on their own, as some people, calling for us to pay freaking billion for them, were claiming. A lot of work and stepping up to do here.

[robsblubot 3,504]

34 minutes ago, JFKvsNixon said:

Just think about what you are saying.

You want to agree to disagree about whether or not we should get behind the players/team/squad/club and offer them all the support we can, rather than being too quick to write them off. Especially so considering the age of the team and the amount of ridicule that they're currently facing.

once again, to make it perfectly clear: Chelsea players should always be supported by the fans-I'm not disputing that. And if a player is not good enough *for whatever reason* whether they are supported by the fans or not won't make any difference.

Regarding an overly young squad, a cheer from a fan won't help a younger player correct their positioning, or help them under pressure. An experienced player playing alongside these young players will help them tactically, mentally (projecting composure, leadership) in actual game situations.

Edited August 20, 2023 by robsblubot

[JFKvsNixon 35]

1 minute ago, robsblubot said:

once again, to make it perfectly clear: Chelsea players should always be supported by the fans. And if a player is not good enough *for whatever reason* whether they are supported by the fans or not won't make any difference.

I'm not so sure that I'd be comfortable to go with a black and white, good enough/not good judgement on the players so quickly. 

Personally I think that people need accept that a disappointing run of performances doesn't mean that a player is not good enough, football is far more complicated than that. It's this attitude that saw Salah and De Byune being cheered on by Liverpool and Citeh fans.

[DH1988 1,273]

Emotion out of the end of the game now, still feeling the same as previous post, albeit with a touch of reality kicking in for the likes of the makeup of our team. Yes we’ve spent horrendous amounts, to fix prior judgement errors and to speed up this ‘blue model’ way of running the club. Looking at our squad we are still glaringly short on options in some areas but we’ve also made some terrible decisions today, granted Moises looked horrendous, so I can get onboard with Poch not starting him after seeing him in training, Lavia, too.

That also means we didn’t want to go for a four at the back away from home, sadly. 
 

However, there are also a ton of positives and I’m disappointed we have to live with this loss for a week until the next game but absolutely onboard with the positives:

- Raheem, finally playing to his strengths and hopefully it sticks, previous he tried far too hard at being slow and creative, no, push the ball past the opponent and turn the burners on.

- Jackson, tried hard absolutely and was let down by our midfield/wingers, then when he actually wasn’t on the very few occasions, his touch deserted him, trying his best though.

- Colwill, distribution and coming out of defence improved toward the last bit of the first half and into the second.

- Enzo, doing Enzo things.

- Gusto, very adept replacement and thank God we have him, if we had a Giroud to be on the end of his crosses it’d be golden.

- Carney, I slated him before his goal, it’s a shame because he had a good little spell then reality hits us, get on the mend soon.

 

[robsblubot 3,504]

13 minutes ago, JFKvsNixon said:

I'm not so sure that I'd be comfortable to go with a black and white, good enough/not good judgement on the players so quickly. 

Personally I think that people need accept that a disappointing run of performances doesn't mean that a player is not good enough, football is far more complicated than that. It's this attitude that saw Salah and De Byune being cheered on by Liverpool and Citeh fans.

I agree with the notion. Just not with *only* doing that: buying and playing super young players waiting for them to reach a certain level. That does not work. It may work for smaller clubs, but not big clubs with certain obligations to compete (CL and sponsorships).

Don't think Salah and KDB were the same case; Mourinho is notoriously for not giving minutes to young players. BTW, I'm the one who wrote a controversial take on Salah back in 2014 (saw some WC potential in him).

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by robsblubot

[JFKvsNixon 35]

2 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

I agree with the notion. Just not with *only* doing that: buying and playing super young players waiting for them to reach a certain level.

That does not work.

Don't think Salah and KDB were the same case; Mourinho isn't really keen on given young players time. BTW, I'm the one who wrote an essay on Salah back in 2014 (saw some WC potential in him).

Irrespective of how we believed the club should be run, we are where we are and we have to move forwards the best we can.

 

The issue with Salah and KDB was that Mourinho believed that they weren't good enough for the club at that moment, and that was the only thing that mattered. Does this attitude ring any bells?

[robsblubot 3,504]

Just now, JFKvsNixon said:

Irrespective of how we believed the club should be run, we are where we are and we have to move forwards the best we can.

 

The issue with Salah and KDB was that Mourinho believed that they weren't good enough for the club at that moment, and that was the only thing that mattered. Does this attitude ring any bells?

Please count the number of young players in or around the starting XI. Is it 2?

[JFKvsNixon 35]

2 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

Please count the number of young players in or around the starting XI. Is it 2?

Why?  Everyone already knows that that the squad is young.

[robsblubot 3,504]

1 minute ago, JFKvsNixon said:

Why?  Everyone already knows that that the squad is young.

5 minutes ago, JFKvsNixon said:

Irrespective of how we believed the club should be run, we are where we are and we have to move forwards the best we can.

 

The issue with Salah and KDB was that Mourinho believed that they weren't good enough for the club at that moment, and that was the only thing that mattered. Does this attitude ring any bells?

There is no moving forward if we don't have the players capable of delivering at this level. This is elite football with obligations that smaller clubs don't have.

I disagree Salah and KDB is the same situation... nothing alike.

[cosmicway 1,323]

This team cannot last the ninety minutes.
This result was n't a fluke.
Things might have been different with the Enzo penalty and the final score should have been 1-2 and not 1-3 but it was no fluke.

[Mhsc 876]

Well, I spent the evening having fun with some friends and some alcohol, and then remembered we lost to West Ham. Fuck it. It’s a long season. Let the haters hate. Caicedo will come good. NJ will come good. Mudryk will come good. Poch will come good.

also lagavulin cures all ills 

[JFKvsNixon 35]

1 minute ago, robsblubot said:

There is no moving forward if we don't have the players capable of delivering at this level. This is elite football with obligations that smaller clubs don't have.

I disagree Salah and KDB is the same situation... nothing alike.

How can you seriously suggest that the players are not or will never be capable of doing Chelsea proud second game in the middle of a serious rebuild?

Also, just because they were not capable today does not mean that the players will not be capable tomorrow, or the day after that, or even the day after that. Let's drop this sense of entitlement, and back those players!

[robsblubot 3,504]

25 minutes ago, JFKvsNixon said:

How can you seriously suggest that the players are not or will never be capable of doing Chelsea proud second game in the middle of a serious rebuild?

Also, just because they were not capable today does not mean that the players will not be capable tomorrow, or the day after that, or even the day after that. Let's drop this sense of entitlement, and back those players!

what a load of crap.

You evidently feel entitled with that preaching tone.

Edited August 20, 2023 by robsblubot