Welcome Mauricio Pochettino

[JFKvsNixon 55]

2 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

But is it though? It’s never as black and white as that.

Do the players look like they are giving their all? To me they don’t. There is no fight within that group when things get tough. They crumble.

Yes it is clear based on performances that we lack a lot of quality in certain areas but it looks like a good amount of them don’t care enough or aren’t up for it when games get tough.

Poch is an issue on his own - the playing style is a mystery - but sacking him and appointing someone else of that level isn’t going to change anything. Not with this squad, we need to chop and change 5 or 6 players in this group as the group lacks quality, experience, leadership and ultimately people who will be demanding of their team mates. These lot are all pushovers & far too nice.

Do you think at Liverpool or City or Arsenal that their players in the dressing room, never mind the managers, would have accepted how that Burnley game went? Not a fat chance. 

The days of Premier League teams fighting their way to victory ended a long time ago. A team of average players, playing a system that everyone understands will almost always beat a team of individuals. 

With other teams like Brighton, the players know exactly where their teammates are and what they're going to do. When you watch Chelsea it looks look their making it up as they're going along, which fills the team with uncertainty.

 

This is evidenced by Chelsea's players consistently struggling to beat the press and break a low block in offence and press effectively as a team, and maintain a high line in defence.  Looking back, all of Chelsea's best results are built upon moments of individual brilliance, not patterns of play.

All these things are achieved on the training ground, which leaves the question, who does Chelsea actually do when they train?

 

[NikkiCFC 8,334]

3 hours ago, Mário César said:

?? where?

Edited April 1, 2024 by NikkiCFC

[robsblubot 3,595]

I think I disagree with most here, but lean towards @OneMoSalah's take.

I don't believe in "desire" alone having that much importance at this level, otherwise let's exclusively sign players from the championship, which would be far cheaper. Desire, conviction, and then confidence come naturally for better players (skill, physical, and mental) who constantly have advantage when competing against their rivals.

Palmer and Gusto seem to do just fine despite Poch's tactics. Jackson has been playing well despite Poch (although finishing still lacking). Caicedo has been regular in what he does, which is both what I expected from him and also not impressive.

The choice of a low block makes perfect sense to me, esp when you consider how slow Disasi is. It's also protecting a very young goalie who is (surprise!) faltering at the moment.

So, although I have no problem with the notion of improving on the manager, I can't see that as the biggest problem with this roster. Especially considering that half of the players are, and have been, injured for most of the season.

[lucio 5,418]

4 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

But is it though? It’s never as black and white as that.

Do the players look like they are giving their all? To me they don’t. There is no fight within that group when things get tough. They crumble.

Yes it is clear based on performances that we lack a lot of quality in certain areas but it looks like a good amount of them don’t care enough or aren’t up for it when games get tough.

Poch is an issue on his own - the playing style is a mystery - but sacking him and appointing someone else of that level isn’t going to change anything. Not with this squad, we need to chop and change 5 or 6 players in this group as the group lacks quality, experience, leadership and ultimately people who will be demanding of their team mates. These lot are all pushovers & far too nice.

Do you think at Liverpool or City or Arsenal that their players in the dressing room, never mind the managers, would have accepted how that Burnley game went? Not a fat chance. 

Motivation is also part of the managers job. He’s too soft like potter , even a shit tier coach like dyche would get them to play with aggression and intensity 

if players are being lazy and not engaging fully , the manager needs to address that 

[robsblubot 3,595]

1 hour ago, lucio said:

Motivation is also part of the managers job. He’s too soft like potter , even a shit tier coach like dyche would get them to play with aggression and intensity 

if players are being lazy and not engaging fully , the manager needs to address that 

yes, better managers are really good at motivating players. The best managers are even better at signing players they know can be motivated and have the necessary quality (including aggression) for the task at hand. The best managers are VERY specific in the type of player they go after.

I honestly don't see motivation being a problem. I can't point to many players and say they aren't intense enough; quite on the contrary, I see very aggressive and intense players like Caicedo and Gusto. I see players giving the best and trying to participate as much as possible. Someone mentioned Mudryk, but that's just the player he is, as he's clearly limited by his skill (esp first touch). Is Gallagher not motivated and intense?!

We have players who lack skill, not desire.

Perhaps it is just easier for fans to think the players lack motivation vs that they simply aren't good enough. That gives them hope that a different manager will magically make everything better. That won't work.

Edited April 2, 2024 by robsblubot

[lucio 5,418]

1 hour ago, robsblubot said:

yes, better managers are really good at motivating players. The best managers are even better at signing players they know can be motivated and have the necessary quality (including aggression) for the task at hand. The best managers are VERY specific in the type of player they go after.

I honestly don't see motivation being a problem. I can't point to many players and say they aren't intense enough; quite on the contrary, I see very aggressive and intense players like Caicedo and Gusto. I see players giving the best and trying to participate as much as possible. Someone mentioned Mudryk, but that's just the player he is, as he's clearly limited by his skill (esp first touch). Is Gallagher not motivated and intense?!

We have players who lack skill, not desire.

Perhaps it is just easier for fans to think the players lack motivation vs that they simply aren't good enough. That gives them hope that a different manager will magically make everything better. That won't work.

Every time managers implode the narrative is “the players downed tools , they don’t care” when in reality the manager couldn’t do anything tactically and the players were lost on the pitch 

[robsblubot 3,595]

6 minutes ago, lucio said:

Every time managers implode the narrative is “the players downed tools , they don’t care” when in reality the manager couldn’t do anything tactically and the players were lost on the pitch 

Yeah it definitely happens. The obvious hint to know it's happening is when the manager starts criticizing the players publicly. It rarely ever works because that's the people he relies on to make something happen. It can only be a very specific criticism, and even then, only done once at most.

On the other hand, I just don't see the skill in this squad. I see power, I see intensity, I see work rate, and see very little actual skill. There is an abundance of it from a player like Palmer, and very rare moments from Enzo, but that's about it. Gusto looks great, but I'm specifically looking for key players who can make things happen up front.

I'm especially concerned about Enzo, and I'm afraid it's not just tactics. I think Sterling issue is physical: not to become the great finisher he never was, but to get back to that intense player I used to like.

[robsblubot 3,595]

It's also very convenient for underperforming players to blame the manager... just saying. It happens a lot too.

[Reddish-Blue 2,509]

5 hours ago, robsblubot said:

I just don't see the skill in this squad

We sold off Werner and Havertz like they were dragging this team down....and yet they're doing perfectly fine in more organised tactical systems. 

Also, we're not helped by the fact that our most skilled signings are nowhere near the pitch (Fofana, Lavia, Nkunku)....all 3 would be starters in the current setup. 

5 hours ago, robsblubot said:

I think Sterling issue is physical

I don't think it is, for Sterling, seems more like, he knows when he wants to give it a proper go and he'll switch on for that game....otherwise it's just another stock standard, run around and not really create much on the wings type of outing. 

 

[Fernando 6,585]

I still say if we improve our defense poch will look good so of a sudden. 

Our issue this season has been the bad defense. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,383]

20 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Hardly as simple as that. 

Re the cup final - in ET Liverpool run over the top of us. Particularly in midfield. We just had to match/better them physically and in terms of intensity but we didn’t. Liverpool get a bit of momentum, smell blood and well we bottle it.

Not as easy as saying it was to do with playing a high block, a low block, possession football or counter attacking football etc because either way, you still need to play with some intensity and physicality in all games regardless. For example, Atletico Madrid are one of these sides who play a low block and counter attacking style but they are a good physical side, very aggressive and play with intensity irrespective. 

And really, do you think that its much different from last season ? We had a naive group that looked so short of work ethic, desire, that sort of nastiness all top teams have a bit of and it hasn’t really changed again this season. We have moved on certain players from that group but a large % of the squad is still the same, particularly the lads who make up the £1bn investments over the summer and January windows.

The players need to take a lot of responsibility and show the fans they have more about them. When their own manager is saying that the team misses something, be it heart or balls or the right mentality or whatever he said, that is extremely alarming. Or it should be for them.

Imagine if Conte said that or Jose said that or Ancelotti said that about past Chelsea teams they’ve managed - you’d be worried.

With this crowd, it doesn’t surprise me. A lot of them are soft, the squad sorely lacks real leadership and quality throughout. Poch isn’t the best manager out there either amongst other things which has its own problems but he isn’t the big reason as to why this group is struggling, the players are. 

Did we watch the same final? Last 10-15 minutes before the full time whistle during regular time, we were all over Liverpool. Momentum was heavily on our side and 99% of the world were suggesting we'd win it in extra time if we kept pushing. We didn't. Liverpool 'smelled blood', because Poch allowed them to. He then had the gull to say the players were tired (yet we only have 1 game a week) and implied he wanted to play for penalties because, in vintage Poch fashion, he shat the bed when he needed to be assertive. This isn't just a one off scenario either. Poch's game management is among the worst in the league. We are 18th as far as league table goes in minute 45-90. 

You will never convince me that we have players worse than the likes of Wolves, West Ham, Villa, and Brighton. Never.  Poch can keep banging on about the underlying numbers are in his favour, how we ‘should’ be higher in the table but part of your job as a manager is extracting performance in all areas so you can only bemoan poor finishing for so long before you have to start looking at your training methods/man management. And it is a results business at the end of the day. 39% win rate just isn’t good enough. No where near. 

[milka 3,393]

2 hours ago, Fernando said:

I still say if we improve our defense poch will look good so of a sudden. 

Our issue this season has been the bad defense. 

No one manager can turn these players because they are not good enough to be at Chelsea . None of them will even be on the team's bench in 2021. At best rotation players for domestic cups but we overhyping these players after every good game they have.

Edited April 2, 2024 by milka

[MoroccanBlue 5,383]

2 minutes ago, milka said:

No one manager can turn these players because they are not good enough to be at Chelsea . None of them will even be on the team's bench in 2021. At best rotation players for domestic cups but we overhyping these players after every good game they have.

We said the same thing about Rudiger and Christensen in 2020 and people throwing the idea of selling Kante and Kovacic because they were pointless under Lampard. 

[milka 3,393]

There is no way to compare proven names like Rudiger,Kante, Kovacic with unproven ones like these we have today.  They needed an elite coach that Lampard was not for his time.

[MoroccanBlue 5,383]

2 minutes ago, milka said:

There is no way to compare proven names like Rudiger,Kante, Kovacic with unproven ones like these we have today.  They needed an elite coach that Lampard was not for his time.

Which just shows how detrimental having a poor manager can be when even experienced players look like shit. Kinda like how even Silva, James, Chilwell, and Sterling have been among our worst performers.

[milka 3,393]

Yep we come to the conclusion, which is clear, that Pochettino is not a top coach and our managment is poor .Our best players Palmer and Gallagher can hardly even be on the bench for the teams of the last 10 years, let's be real which tells you what level we have .

[MoroccanBlue 5,383]

51 minutes ago, milka said:

Yep we come to the conclusion, which is clear, that Pochettino is not a top coach and our managment is poor .Our best players Palmer and Gallagher can hardly even be on the bench for the teams of the last 10 years, let's be real which tells you what level we have .

Both things can be true. We don't have a Top 4 side but we certainly don't have an 11th place side. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

48 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Both things can be true. We don't have a Top 4 side but we certainly don't have an 11th place side. 

You may be right if you consider the full roster, but with the injuries?! Dunno don’t see which players would be getting us points aside from the ones who have been getting us points already.

There is also the point of an unbalanced squad. Like poor options on the left side, striker, and poor options to change the shape of the midfield for ex. How does a manager make our middle significantly more creative? Without dropping quality? I think even RLC would’ve been a tremendous option at this time… at least he’s different from our mid trio in characteristics.

I disagree regarding Andreas and rudiger. Aside from a few people frustrated with them, the majority thought they were good players. I’ve always rated Andreas for what he is.

 

[MoroccanBlue 5,383]

43 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

You may be right if you consider the full roster, but with the injuries?! Dunno don’t see which players would be getting us points aside from the ones who have been getting us points already.

There is also the point of an unbalanced squad. Like poor options on the left side, striker, and poor options to change the shape of the midfield for ex. How does a manager make our middle significantly more creative? Without dropping quality? I think even RLC would’ve been a tremendous option at this time… at least he’s different from our mid trio in characteristics.

I disagree regarding Andreas and rudiger. Aside from a few people frustrated with them, the majority thought they were good players. I’ve always rated Andreas for what he is.

 

Newcastle and Brighton have had more injuries whilst being in Europe and they are still ahead of us in the table. The latter has been stripped head to toe. 

Not buying the poor options argument. Exclude penalties, Jackson is the 8th highest goal scorer in the league. Palmer is going to end the season with 40 goal contributions. Sterling, despite being selfish, has a goal contribution every other game in the Premier League. Mudryk and Madueke have among the best contributions per 90 out of any bench options in the league. Enzo has among the best long ball pass accuracy and most progressive passes in the league, and Caicedo despite people claiming is shit, has better defensive metrics than Rice this season. I just don't buy it. These are talented players let down by poor game management. 

Go take a trip down memory lane in 2020 and see threads about Rudiger, Christensen, and Kante. 

[Laylabelle 9,536]

1 hour ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Both things can be true. We don't have a Top 4 side but we certainly don't have an 11th place side. 

Say more 6th..7th..8th.. no way near top 4 and won't be for a while unless things change.