Chelsea Transfers

[Vesper 29,170]

14 minutes ago, Pizy said:

I watch plenty of other games, thanks. He’s a solid striker, nothing more. 
 

 

he is a far better striker than some on here make him out to be

[OneMoSalah 8,810]

4 minutes ago, Vesper said:

he is a far better striker than some on here make him out to be

Hes decent but hardly outstanding.

Too streaky a player and have real doubts he will play at a higher level than Everton or as a back up CF for England.

He only scored 5 PL goals in the second half of the season for Everton despite playing virtually every week. Got 11 league goals in the first half of the season but 6 of them came in that purple patch in the first 4 PL games, 1 v Tottenham, 3 v WBA, 1 v Palace, 1 v Brighton, where he was scoring with everything he touched.

[Vesper 29,170]

4 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Hes decent but hardly outstanding.

Too streaky a player and have real doubts he will play at a higher level than Everton or as a back up CF for England.

He only scored 5 PL goals in the second half of the season for Everton despite playing virtually every week. Got 11 league goals in the first half of the season but 6 of them came in that purple patch in the first 4 PL games, 1 v Tottenham, 3 v WBA, 1 v Palace, 1 v Brighton, where he was scoring with everything he touched.

We are not going to pay the money Everton would demand for DCL anyway, and although I do rate him, he is certainly not worth £90-100m or anywhere remotely near that.

I think the same is quite likely going to happen with Traore and Wolves (not saying that would be a disaster for that deal to fall through).

I think this window has a fair amount of potential of not producing much. IF we do very little, we have very little hope of winning the league. I cannot see our current set-up, especially if we do lose Giroud and Tammy and do little to replace them as title challengers. We simply will lack the depth and production, barring some miracle turn-around from Werner and Ziyech and an almost unheard of stepping up of say, Broja.

A huge thing I am also worried about is that we may not be able to unload the insane amount of deadweight we have on the books. we also have the potential for real dressing room drama if all our 'out of favour with Tuchel' players stay and continue to be frozen out ad/or continue to become more unhappy and then, perhaps, disruptive.

 

[King Kante 1,525]

Found it funny tonight how a number of people told me that Lukaku's first touch and close control had greatly improved but then he went on to continue to display a first touch so bad it would've even made Jimmy Saville blush. 

[Superblue 6,372]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

We are not going to pay the money Everton would demand for DCL anyway, and although I do rate him, he is certainly not worth £90-100m or anywhere remotely near that.

I think the same is quite likely going to happen with Traore and Wolves (not saying that would be a disaster for that deal to fall through).

I think this window has a fair amount of potential of not producing much. IF we do very little, we have very little hope of winning the league. I cannot see our current set-up, especially if we do lose Giroud and Tammy and do little to replace them as title challengers. We simply will lack the depth and production, barring some miracle turn-around from Werner and Ziyech and an almost unheard of stepping up of say, Broja.

A huge thing I am also worried about is that we may not be able to unload the insane amount of deadweight we have on the books. we also have the potential for real dressing room drama if all our 'out of favour with Tuchel' players stay and continue to be frozen out ad/or continue to become more unhappy and then, perhaps, disruptive.

 

I wouldn't say it would be a miracle turn-around to see improvements in the likes of Werner and Ziyech next season.

In both cases they have produced in other leagues previously, and for a sustained period of time (i.e. not a one season wonder) which would give me some hope that such form can be replicated to some degree. Granted in Ziyech's case the Dutch league isn't the strongest, but he does have some good form in Europe over the same time.

I think that both can benefit from the previous season they've just experienced and I believe both should be afforded this coming season to judge them. Particularly with the return of fans into the stadium. 

Ziyech in particular has been almost completely written off by a lot of Chelsea fans but I do think he offers something completely different from the rest of our attacking options which is the ability and preference to drop a little deeper and find the pass. We question what we need to unlock some of the deeper defences of the 'lesser' sides in the league but I think Ziyech's skill set could help with that. He also isn't afraid to have a shot around the edge of the box which has been a source of irritation for me (the lack of players prepared to do so in our squad). 

Beyond players like Haaland and Mbappe, the other attacking options being suggested mostly have lesser numbers than the likes of Werner, Havertz and Ziyech were producing before they joined us, and who's to say that such players wouldn't need a similar time period to adjust to a new club, league, culture, etc. That's why for me it just seems to make sense to hold faith with what we already have rather than taking a punt on a new signing coming in and hitting the ground running, unless they are in that real top category of attacker.

[Vesper 29,170]

9 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I wouldn't say it would be a miracle turn-around to see improvements in the likes of Werner and Ziyech next season.

In both cases they have produced in other leagues previously, and for a sustained period of time (i.e. not a one season wonder) which would give me some hope that such form can be replicated to some degree. Granted in Ziyech's case the Dutch league isn't the strongest, but he does have some good form in Europe over the same time.

I think that both can benefit from the previous season they've just experienced and I believe both should be afforded this coming season to judge them. Particularly with the return of fans into the stadium. 

Ziyech in particular has been almost completely written off by a lot of Chelsea fans but I do think he offers something completely different from the rest of our attacking options which is the ability and preference to drop a little deeper and find the pass. We question what we need to unlock some of the deeper defences of the 'lesser' sides in the league but I think Ziyech's skill set could help with that. He also isn't afraid to have a shot around the edge of the box which has been a source of irritation for me (the lack of players prepared to do so in our squad). 

Beyond players like Haaland and Mbappe, the other attacking options being suggested mostly have lesser numbers than the likes of Werner, Havertz and Ziyech were producing before they joined us, and who's to say that such players wouldn't need a similar time period to adjust to a new club, league, culture, etc. That's why for me it just seems to make sense to hold faith with what we already have rather than taking a punt on a new signing coming in and hitting the ground running, unless they are in that real top category of attacker.

Ziyech's big numbers were in the absolute joke of a league in the Netherlands. As the years roll by, the less I am impressed with the Eredivisie products that now seem to make up 95% of what is coming out of it.

I never wanted him, said he was likely bad a buy and I deffo look like the right one versus all the hype. I think he is both weak and lazy. Bad combo. Plus he is far from a youth player, the bloke turns 29 this coming end of winter, so any sort of remotely big fee likely must be had this summer, as in summer 2022, a team is buying a player who turns 30 that same season. I would have a fit if we started buying 29, 30yos and signing them to big 4 or 5 year contracts.

The EPL is not some grandpa league, let him go till his garden in Serie A where a forward is routinely going against 32, 33, 34yo and older slow CB's. Very few CB's past 33, 34 can start and play to a high level in the EPL (it is often painful to watch Cahill trot around these days for Palace, for example), we are blessed with a genetic freak in Thiago.

I will be happy to eat theses words if he turns it around HERE, not in some donkey league.

 

old Serie A CB's who still start

 
Giorgio Chiellini (soon 37, a genetic freak like Thiago, but hardly a speed merchant)
Diego Godín 
Andrea Masiello  
Ragnar Klavan   
Leonardo Bonucci   
Stefan Radu (soon 35, and was a target of  a big transfer fight with INTER, but now has renewed with Lazio until he is 37, 38) 
Martín Cáceres 
Federico Fazio   
Sebastien De Maio   
Francesco Acerbi  (I still rate him) 
Kamil Glik   
Andrea Ranocchia  
Simon Kjaer (I still rate him)  
Maya Yoshida   
Chris Smalling  (soon 32, and was rinsed in terms of the EPL 2 years ago in Serie A he is a star at times)  

 

 

[Styl1994 188]

How badly do you think Chelsea want Haaland?

Do you think they would be prepared to pay 20m more then the buyout and send him back to Dortmund on loan this season and sign a stopgap?

 

[Superblue 6,372]

7 hours ago, Vesper said:

Ziyech's big numbers were in the absolute joke of a league in the Netherlands. As the years roll by, the less I am impressed with the Eredivisie products that now seem to make up 95% of what is coming out of it.

I never wanted him, said he was likely bad a buy and I deffo look like the right one versus all the hype. I think he is both weak and lazy. Bad combo. Plus he is far from a youth player, the bloke turns 29 this coming end of winter, so any sort of remotely big fee likely must be had this summer, as in summer 2022, a team is buying a player who turns 30 that same season. I would have a fit if we started buying 29, 30yos and signing them to big 4 or 5 year contracts.

The EPL is not some grandpa league, let him go till his garden in Serie A where a forward is routinely going against 32, 33, 34yo and older slow CB's. Very few CB's past 33, 34 can start and play to a high level in the EPL (it is often painful to watch Cahill trot around these days for Palace, for example), we are blessed with a genetic freak in Thiago.

I will be happy to eat theses words if he turns it around HERE, not in some donkey league.

 

old Serie A CB's who still start

 
Giorgio Chiellini (soon 37, a genetic freak like Thiago, but hardly a speed merchant)
Diego Godín 
Andrea Masiello  
Ragnar Klavan   
Leonardo Bonucci   
Stefan Radu (soon 35, and was a target of  a big transfer fight with INTER, but now has renewed with Lazio until he is 37, 38) 
Martín Cáceres 
Federico Fazio   
Sebastien De Maio   
Francesco Acerbi  (I still rate him) 
Kamil Glik   
Andrea Ranocchia  
Simon Kjaer (I still rate him)  
Maya Yoshida   
Chris Smalling  (soon 32, and was rinsed in terms of the EPL 2 years ago in Serie A he is a star at times)  

 

 

As I said before, I agree with you on the Eredivisie. It's not the strongest of leagues, but Ziyech had also shown some good form over the last couple of seasons in Europe for Ajax.

I would like to see if there is an improvement in his game this season. His type of player can sometimes take time to adjust to the pace and intensity of the league, along with getting used to new team mates and how they operate, make runs, etc. Jorginho and Kovacic were much better off after their first season to adjust, adapting to less time on the ball and quicker reactions being needed. 

If he flops this season then we can look to move him on next summer. Even at 29 he'll still be desirable for some clubs on the continent. 

And I tend to agree with you regarding the Italian league. I think it's the weakest of the 'big' leagues and perfectly suits a number of older players. With that in mind, it also leaves me very wary of a big money move for someone in Italy, especially an attacker (Lukaku, Martinez, Vlahovic) when used to going up against a number of the players you've mentioned.

[Vesper 29,170]

57 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

As I said before, I agree with you on the Eredivisie. It's not the strongest of leagues, but Ziyech had also shown some good form over the last couple of seasons in Europe for Ajax.

I would like to see if there is an improvement in his game this season. His type of player can sometimes take time to adjust to the pace and intensity of the league, along with getting used to new team mates and how they operate, make runs, etc. Jorginho and Kovacic were much better off after their first season to adjust, adapting to less time on the ball and quicker reactions being needed. 

If he flops this season then we can look to move him on next summer. Even at 29 he'll still be desirable for some clubs on the continent. 

And I tend to agree with you regarding the Italian league. I think it's the weakest of the 'big' leagues and perfectly suits a number of older players. With that in mind, it also leaves me very wary of a big money move for someone in Italy, especially an attacker (Lukaku, Martinez, Vlahovic) when used to going up against a number of the players you've mentioned.

I love a tonne of Serie A players, but almost all are CB's, fullbacks, wingbacks, DMF's, and CMF's, very few AMF's and forwards. Vlahovic is the only exception atm.

 

If we are talking about not available atm players, there are 3 wingers in Serie A I rate (2 on Juve)

Chiesa ( a superb winger, top 10 on planet or damn close, and 5 players in front of him are all ageing, as Mane, Salah, Son, and Neymar are all 29yo (Son will be in 10 days) plus Messi will be 35yo in less than a year)

Kulusevski (a huge key if we (putting on my Sweden hat) are actually going to make a Euro finals run, only just turned 21yo, and will only get better IMHO)

Lozano (most available, plus the marketing revenue potential would be huge, we would have both the most popular USA and Mexican players, he had 15 goals, 5 assists in only 2600 minutes)

that is it for offensive Serie A players (as Nicolo Zaniolo blew the living shit out of his knee and I need to see two full seasons healthy from him, and back to form to become interested again, and Immobile is 32yo in February and I doubt will leave Lazio, unless it is for a MLS cash-in later on, plus he lives steps from Stadio Olimpico and is treated like a demigod in Rome, at least to a point, and a full-on god if he helps lead Italy to the Euro title).

BTW, I do rate the hell out of Lukaku, I just think £100m or so is problematic for a player his age (he turns 29yo next spring) and build (that weight and bulk, which is now like carved granite, will slow him down when he hits 31, 32yo max, and his game is so dependent on explosive burst) and 3 or 4 years max peak is not worth £100m in my book, especially on the wages he will demand (at least £350-400K PW) which makes a deal for him cost closing in on £200m.. All for a player we decided was not good enough (and not at all a de Bruyne-style decision, Lukaku had a huge run-out period) years ago.

[avrobsws 29]

We did not bid for Hakimi as he was PSG bound. I am sure, we are putting our all efforts to sign Haaland. 

[Blues Forever 1,232]

 

[Vesper 29,170]

27 minutes ago, avrobsws said:

We did not bid for Hakimi as he was PSG bound. I am sure, we are putting our all efforts to sign Haaland. 

not to be 'THAT girl'

BUT

proof please

[R2D2 368]

1 minute ago, Vesper said:

not to be 'THAT girl'

BUT

proof please

It's true all reporting we didn't bid, however that's because Marina wanted to avoid embarrassment she lost out on a target, she probably talked to Hakimi's agent and saw he isn't keep on coming and wants PSG so our chances were slim at that point, placing a bid would've done nothing except confirm our interest, now we can pretend we weren't that interested as we didn't put a bid in.

[R2D2 368]

Bayern Munich are no longer pursuing a move for Callum Hudson-Odoi as they are unable to offer him the same salary as #Chelsea. @cc_eckner

Guess he staying, I'd rather get rid of Ziyech and give his minutes to CHO.

 

[Vesper 29,170]

16 minutes ago, R2D2 said:

It's true all reporting we didn't bid, however that's because Marina wanted to avoid embarrassment she lost out on a target, she probably talked to Hakimi's agent and saw he isn't keep on coming and wants PSG so our chances were slim at that point, placing a bid would've done nothing except confirm our interest, now we can pretend we weren't that interested as we didn't put a bid in.

most all the reporting I saw (some of it by reputable people) said we bid cash + a choice of players

[R2D2 368]

5 minutes ago, Vesper said:

most all the reporting I saw (some of it by reputable people) said we bid cash + a choice of players

Well Romano said we didn't put any official bid.

I'm pretty sure we didn't put an official offer specifically because we knew of Hakimi's preference and would've been pointless regardless. Honestly I don't want to see Hakmi's name mentioned again and wish we move on because it hurts missing out on a player of his quality albeit maybe the money for him goes towards Haaland now but I have my doubts on that.

Edited June 28, 2021 by R2D2

[Vesper 29,170]

10 minutes ago, R2D2 said:

Well Romano said we didn't put any official bid.

I'm pretty sure we didn't put an official offer specifically because we knew of Hakimi's preference and would've been pointless regardless. Honestly I don't want to see Hakmi's name mentioned again and wish we move on because it hurts missing out on a player of his quality albeit maybe the money for him goes towards Haaland now but I have my doubts on that.

well, I guess we move onto to speculating about Traore, lol

if we fail on him, given the other options, I say just promote Livramento

btw, it is absolute bullshit that Livramento is only 1.73m (ZERO chance he is 10cms shorter than I am and 13cms shorter than Anjorin, zero)

here he (Number 7) is recently with the 1.86m tall Tino Anjorin

 

[killer1257 3,282]

2 minutes ago, Vesper said:

well, I guess we move onto to speculating about Traore, lol

if we fail on him, given the other options, I say just promote Livramento

btw, it is absolute bullshit that Livramento is only 1.73m (ZERO chance he is 10cms shorter than I am and 13cms shorter than Anjorin, zero)

here he (Number 7) is recently with the 1.86m tall Tino Anjorin

 

Livra is at least 180 cm. I also have asked myself that same question like you, but he should be at least 180 cm. I would say he is taller than James. 

Livra was our best youth player last season and he was breaking records. He deserves a chance. Is Tuchel the guy that would be willing to give him a chance? I don't know