Chelsea Transfers

[lucio 5,418]

It’s true , Werner harvetz and ziyech were absolute ballers before they joined Chelsea and have been absolutely ruined by this club. We are just a talent graveyard, you have to be Eden hazard level to stand out here and even he never reached his potential 

[Vesper 30,185]

3 hours ago, blahblahblah said:

A guy can dream. You keep writing your lists of players knowing very well we won't sign them. It's the same for me. 

we have signed some over the years

and my lists are pretty damn comprehensive, and then I narrow them down to the best of the best options

I also am pragmatic and do not rant on about certain players when I know we have no shot atm

like my preferred LB, Theo (I am fine with Cucu, but think we paid way too much, but hell he could turn ito the best LB on the planet, so time will tell) and preferred RWB, who we simply missed out on because he did not want to come here, Hakimi

I wanted Jesus badly once it became clear that Osimhen was not a target and we had already missed out last year on Vlahovic

the thing is, I am constantly evolving, and do not ramble on laser focused on shitting on one thing

the closest I got to that lately was Sarr, as he is one of the worst defensive backs we have even had in the past 30 years

[DDA 9,941]

52 minutes ago, blahblahblah said:

Are we really going to discredit our own players just to big up TT? The season we got Werner, Kai and ziyech, we were the envy of the footballing world, and let's not mince words around it. Kai was one of the, if not THE most sought after young player.

Werner was sought after by none other than Liverpool, ziyech's exploits in the CL were well known. Just because TT has not been able to get the best out of the above mentioned players does not lessen their quality (even if they have their shortcomings). Again, to reiterate, getting those 3 talented attackers had us be the envy of the footballing world.

Also, let's be clear, i don't dislike TT. But i don't think he has done anywhere near a "great job". Just look at the post you wrote and the context in which we write about Werner or Kai like they were some mid table evertonians who we got for free. Similarly, in the Lukaku case, TT is absolved of all blame while the board gets it all, like seriously? We would buy a 100m striker for a manager who won the CL without his go ahead and acceptance, seriously? THAT'S the narrative we are going forward with?

You can call me a troll, that's your opinion. I am taking a stance and speaking my mind and not afraid to do that. Just because my opinion does not match yours, and my pov does not match the "narratives", it does not make me a troll. 

For me, the CL triumph should not overshadow the failure to improve/integrate some of the best available talents in the world, a poor attacking structure, and very very mediocre record in the PL (specially given the money spent).

Pep likes to shoot himself in the foot and overthink shit like not playing fernandinho in the cl final, that should not be the metric by which i will judge a manager. He has built a dynasty and a winning machine. Obviously they have their own issues be it a mental block in cl or whatever. We took a decade under RA to win the CL despite having one of the best teams and squads from 03-10. Infact if you ask me, the 2012 CL win was with one of the weakest squads we have had since 03. Might be debatable, but that aging squad was not supposed to do what it did. Meanwhile some of our best ones fell just short in the semis or a penalty kick away. Again, it takes nothing away from those teams, they were great teams as is pep's city right now (unfortunately) and he needs to get a lot of credit for it, cl win or not. 

We were supposed to become a dynasty to with such young talents around, instead we seem to be trending in the complete opposite direction. Most/majority of us seem to think that our players are shit, i don't, sue me for it (or keep calling me a troll). I think we are severely underperforming given the talent at our disposal, and i feel the reason for it is the manager who refuses to address far more important issues like a DM rather than buying a new attack outright. 

AS for replacements, i have already mentioned the names twice or thrice (infact there are multiple posts of people calling me out on it, have a glance). Let's not forget, when TT was rumored, a lot of people were unsure about him too. So let's keep that in mind.

Maybe, just maybe I'll concede to the fact that we were in reality lucky to get Havertz at the time as if I remember rightly... the other 'big clubs' just weren't in the right place financially to place bids to match or better ours. Although having said that, he was still very much unproven at the highest level which ultimately made that transfer a gamble, a gamble the other big clubs weren't prepared to make. Ziyech was balling in the CL but despite the performances in that great run of Ajax in Europe,  those very Ajax fans warned us he was hit and miss and gave the ball away for too many times week in, week out. As for Werner, how we didn't see that he was merely a pace merchant is beyond me. 

Are you seriously trying to paint the picture that TT is the reason that these 3 players couldn't cut it in the Prem,  with some of the absolute piss take of performances they churn out??? 

I'm not advocating TTs every decision and placing him upon a pedestal. All managers are up for criticism when and if they aren't doing their job properly in the view of us, the supporters but in my eyes, he has done enough to warrant more time and certainly more respect.  

[YorkshireBlue 3,277]

24 minutes ago, DDA said:

Maybe, just maybe I'll concede to the fact that we were in reality lucky to get Havertz at the time as if I remember rightly... the other 'big clubs' just weren't in the right place financially to place bids to match or better ours. Although having said that, he was still very much unproven at the highest level which ultimately made that transfer a gamble, a gamble the other big clubs weren't prepared to make. Ziyech was balling in the CL but despite the performances in that great run of Ajax in Europe,  those very Ajax fans warned us he was hit and miss and gave the ball away for too many times week in, week out. As for Werner, how we didn't see that he was merely a pace merchant is beyond me. 

Are you seriously trying to paint the picture that TT is the reason that these 3 players couldn't cut it in the Prem,  with some of the absolute piss take of performances they churn out??? 

I'm not advocating TTs every decision and placing him upon a pedestal. All managers are up for criticism when and if they aren't doing their job properly in the view of us, the supporters but in my eyes, he has done enough to warrant more time and certainly more respect.  

What people also have to take in consideration that if at that time we won the champions league we was playing awful, then you can kinda see why ziyech werner and kai was under performing. But that just wasn't the case we was playing good despite them 3 players under performing and we still won the CL. Now my point is this.... if these 3 players couldn't play like apparently they can when the situation at the club was good, playing good football and winning the CL, then they never will.

[blahblahblah 73]

14 minutes ago, DDA said:

 

Are you seriously trying to paint the picture that TT is the reason that these 3 players couldn't cut it in the Prem,  with some of the absolute piss take of performances they churn out??? 

 

I am absolutely not. But i also, don't agree with the sentiment that the problem lies solely and solely with the players. I don't believe that ALL of our forwards (Lukaku, Werner, Kai, ziyech, Puli and cho) are trash and should be binned while TT did the unimaginable of keeping us competitive Despite of them. Because that is the narrative which is being thrown around here. 

Just yesterday someone made a post highlighting the shortcomings of each of these players and literally denouncing them. These are not average players. They have their issues but our very talented players.

And that's where my issue is. TT is given a pass when it comes to literally 6 of our attackers, he is given a pass for not buying and solving our midfield/dm issues, he is given a pass for not adapting tactically when clearly a lot of other teams have learned how to play us. I don't think any other manager has got as much leeway as him. 

Add to that our recent list of targets, it's just trending in the completely opposite direction of where we are going. Gordon and auba over the likes of the talents i named above. 

[cosmicway 1,333]

Many people don't realise that the age of the great midfielders has died, just like the age of the great wingers died in the seventies.
There were some great attacking midfielders in the past in international football:
Platini - Sandro Mazzola - Archie Gemmill - Francescoli - Charlie Cook ...
Today it's only Modric really, but what did these people havd in common ?
They had in common that no one was marking them ! They had all the room in the world to manouver and prepare dangerous attacks.
Some people call Messi and Maradona great ... playmakers but they are mistaken. They were attackers who of course at their best they could evade their marksmen.
Today's football is totlal war (totaler krieg) so Platini would have to be twice as good as he was to have the same effect.
Players who could make the difference for Chelsea today have to be of the Eden Hazard genre, or Didier Drogba genre.

 

[DDA 9,941]

5 minutes ago, blahblahblah said:

I don't believe that ALL of our forwards (Lukaku, Werner, Kai, ziyech, Puli and cho) are trash and should be binned while TT did the unimaginable of keeping us competitive Despite of them. Because that is the narrative which is being thrown around here. 

At this moment in time and thinking about it, for quite some time before, yes, I do believe that all the players mentioned are not as good as the footballing World once thought they were. 

Lukaku was showing all the signs of being  a complete donkey at Man U.

Werner wasn't cutting it before TT came in and you could make an argument that his bucket full of missed chances were partially the reason we dropped points under Frank and led to his eventual sacking. 

Ziyech and Puli were both proving to be flash in the pan players under Frank.

CHO has not been the same since his injury. Facto.

[blahblahblah 73]

16 minutes ago, DDA said:

At this moment in time and thinking about it, for quite some time before, yes, I do believe that all the players mentioned are not as good as the footballing World once thought they were. 

Lukaku was showing all the signs of being  a complete donkey at Man U.

Werner wasn't cutting it before TT came in and you could make an argument that his bucket full of missed chances were partially the reason we dropped points under Frank and led to his eventual sacking. 

Ziyech and Puli were both proving to be flash in the pan players under Frank.

CHO has not been the same since his injury. Facto.

CHO is the only one on that list who has never truly justified his talent. Rest all have and they have for a significant time, making massive names for themselves. 

Just to make a point, Puli was balling in FL's first season. His hammy during the fa cup final and while being through on goal can be taken as a turning point in his career, but in that covid year, he was lighting up the league. 

As for Kai, Werner and ziyech, we are using the 4 months with FL as saying they were not what we thought they were, but a season before Werner had scored 30 goals or so, ziyech was balling with ajax and Kai had 2 20 goal seasons with Leverkusen. 

I think the main objective for TT would have been to find a system to get the best out of them. And that's why i raise the point of him failing to integrate these players. 

Fine, even if you want to argue that they are not as good as we thought, but replacing them with auba and gordon. That has GOT to be mental and criminal man. That is what really makes it insane. 

I would love to be proven wrong. I will be happy to be proven wrong and be ridiculed (even more) on here with being called a troll and what not. But i don't see it happening. Hence my take on TT. 

[Strike 7,490]

8 hours ago, Pizy said:

Btw, have Leicester even signed anyone yet? They’ve had a horrible start to the season, have signed no one, and I’ve seen LOTS of their supporters saying that Rodgers has grown stale and should go. Add to that the fact that reports have suggested the club is in really poor financial shape. And yet they still reject £70m from us? Kind of incredible.

Just some 32 year old backup keeper. I think they are going to sell - They were unable to bid for Ademola Lookman because of lack of funds

Rodgers' latest quotes indicates a sale too. Possible this is stalling till the weekend game/when they sort a replacement

 

 

[YorkshireBlue 3,277]

1 hour ago, blahblahblah said:

I am absolutely not. But i also, don't agree with the sentiment that the problem lies solely and solely with the players. I don't believe that ALL of our forwards (Lukaku, Werner, Kai, ziyech, Puli and cho) are trash and should be binned while TT did the unimaginable of keeping us competitive Despite of them. Because that is the narrative which is being thrown around here. 

Just yesterday someone made a post highlighting the shortcomings of each of these players and literally denouncing them. These are not average players. They have their issues but our very talented players.

And that's where my issue is. TT is given a pass when it comes to literally 6 of our attackers, he is given a pass for not buying and solving our midfield/dm issues, he is given a pass for not adapting tactically when clearly a lot of other teams have learned how to play us. I don't think any other manager has got as much leeway as him. 

Add to that our recent list of targets, it's just trending in the completely opposite direction of where we are going. Gordon and auba over the likes of the talents i named above. 

Does TT get the blame for the same players not performing under FL aswell? 

[Strike 7,490]

 

[lucio 5,418]

At least he really wants to join , Gordon too apparently 

[xPetrCechx 13,571]

9 minutes ago, lucio said:

At least he really wants to join , Gordon too apparently 

The big question is if he’s good enough.

[Superblue 6,372]

1 hour ago, blahblahblah said:

CHO is the only one on that list who has never truly justified his talent. Rest all have and they have for a significant time, making massive names for themselves. 

Just to make a point, Puli was balling in FL's first season. His hammy during the fa cup final and while being through on goal can be taken as a turning point in his career, but in that covid year, he was lighting up the league. 

As for Kai, Werner and ziyech, we are using the 4 months with FL as saying they were not what we thought they were, but a season before Werner had scored 30 goals or so, ziyech was balling with ajax and Kai had 2 20 goal seasons with Leverkusen. 

I think the main objective for TT would have been to find a system to get the best out of them. And that's why i raise the point of him failing to integrate these players. 

Fine, even if you want to argue that they are not as good as we thought, but replacing them with auba and gordon. That has GOT to be mental and criminal man. That is what really makes it insane. 

I would love to be proven wrong. I will be happy to be proven wrong and be ridiculed (even more) on here with being called a troll and what not. But i don't see it happening. Hence my take on TT. 

I have to disagree with Pulisic. He had a period post covid lockdown where he was superb, easily our best player and arguably the biggest factor in the team to push us to top 4. But he's been here for over 3 years now across two managers and that 8-10 game period is the only sustained bit of form he has managed to hold up. At present, it can't be seen as anything more than a run of form or hot streak as opposed to that is his actual level. Plenty of players have had similar periods in their career, not just at Chelsea and then petered back down to a level or two below that and I can't help but feel that Pulisic might fall into that category. This is someone who didn't really put up that impressive numbers in the Bundesliga which it seems most players do these days (and you'd assume he'd thrive in that environment where far more teams play a higher line and more open style of football than you get over here). The number of muscular injuries he suffered earlier on may have had an impact too as he looks nowhere near as explosive anymore and can be bullied far too easily off the ball now.

I don't think Tuchel can be completely absolved of blame because he does have to try and find a way to make it work and there does have to be question marks over the players we're looking to bring in. Ultimately Tuchel will fall on his sword if one or two come in and aren't a success, in a similar way that he must take responsibility for Sterling, Koulibaly and Cucurella if they don't work out.

But I do believe also that the players we've bought aren't what we thought they would be and that goes far beyond this crop of attackers. Our signings over the last decade or so have been incredibly hit and miss and I think bigger question marks need to be asked of the scouting and recruitment at the club which has had a far longer period across multiple managers of shitting the bed. I read a report the other day that suggested the new ownership were astounded at how little data is used and stored at the club under the previous regime, and that Tuchel has been using an outside source himself for data analysis. I'll always be eternally grateful to Roman who took this club places I thought I'd never see it reach, but for a while it had felt that the club had run stale and not looking to evolve, we were just going back to a well which had been kind to us for a long time but the water had long dried up. If the above is true, you have to question the analytics being driven on some of these signings we've made. It feels like we've just gone for the most part with the current flavour of the month at the time with little thought of how they might excel in our club, our system, our league.

Werner is a perfect case in point. I was really stoked about him joining because you just look at the simple stats of his goal scoring and watch a couple of YouTube videos and think this guy is going to bang goals for a team that lacks them. But it didn't take long to unravel with him and when you watch a few more videos of his all round game in the Bundesliga you realise how technically limited he is if he doesn't get the space and high lines he was afforded in Germany. Data analytics is there for a reason and its now a crucial part of many teams scouting and recruitment processes. With Werner I'm sure it would have identified these potential issues with being able to replicate what he's achieved in Germany. On reflection I struggle to believe that we 'beat' Liverpool for him at the time. I think there was interest from Liverpool but ultimately they didn't pursue it, and ended up signing Jota for not dissimilar money that summer. There has been plenty of rumours doing the rounds of players Klopp has wanted, and being talked around to a different player from the scouting and data departments at Liverpool and if this is indeed true, then you have to believe that Werner is another case of this.

[Blues Forever 1,232]

49 minutes ago, xPetrCechx said:

The big question is if he’s good enough.

Or if Fofana is really suited for a possession football? 

[blahblahblah 73]

35 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I have to disagree with Pulisic. He had a period post covid lockdown where he was superb, easily our best player and arguably the biggest factor in the team to push us to top 4. But he's been here for over 3 years now across two managers and that 8-10 game period is the only sustained bit of form he has managed to hold up. At present, it can't be seen as anything more than a run of form or hot streak as opposed to that is his actual level. Plenty of players have had similar periods in their career, not just at Chelsea and then petered back down to a level or two below that and I can't help but feel that Pulisic might fall into that category. This is someone who didn't really put up that impressive numbers in the Bundesliga which it seems most players do these days (and you'd assume he'd thrive in that environment where far more teams play a higher line and more open style of football than you get over here). The number of muscular injuries he suffered earlier on may have had an impact too as he looks nowhere near as explosive anymore and can be bullied far too easily off the ball now.

I don't think Tuchel can be completely absolved of blame because he does have to try and find a way to make it work and there does have to be question marks over the players we're looking to bring in. Ultimately Tuchel will fall on his sword if one or two come in and aren't a success, in a similar way that he must take responsibility for Sterling, Koulibaly and Cucurella if they don't work out.

But I do believe also that the players we've bought aren't what we thought they would be and that goes far beyond this crop of attackers. Our signings over the last decade or so have been incredibly hit and miss and I think bigger question marks need to be asked of the scouting and recruitment at the club which has had a far longer period across multiple managers of shitting the bed. I read a report the other day that suggested the new ownership were astounded at how little data is used and stored at the club under the previous regime, and that Tuchel has been using an outside source himself for data analysis. I'll always be eternally grateful to Roman who took this club places I thought I'd never see it reach, but for a while it had felt that the club had run stale and not looking to evolve, we were just going back to a well which had been kind to us for a long time but the water had long dried up. If the above is true, you have to question the analytics being driven on some of these signings we've made. It feels like we've just gone for the most part with the current flavour of the month at the time with little thought of how they might excel in our club, our system, our league.

Werner is a perfect case in point. I was really stoked about him joining because you just look at the simple stats of his goal scoring and watch a couple of YouTube videos and think this guy is going to bang goals for a team that lacks them. But it didn't take long to unravel with him and when you watch a few more videos of his all round game in the Bundesliga you realise how technically limited he is if he doesn't get the space and high lines he was afforded in Germany. Data analytics is there for a reason and its now a crucial part of many teams scouting and recruitment processes. With Werner I'm sure it would have identified these potential issues with being able to replicate what he's achieved in Germany. On reflection I struggle to believe that we 'beat' Liverpool for him at the time. I think there was interest from Liverpool but ultimately they didn't pursue it, and ended up signing Jota for not dissimilar money that summer. There has been plenty of rumours doing the rounds of players Klopp has wanted, and being talked around to a different player from the scouting and data departments at Liverpool and if this is indeed true, then you have to believe that Werner is another case of this.

Honestly a very well written and thought out post. 

Don't disagree with much. 

Look, our previous regime WAS a lot of hit and miss. We had a fair share of bakayokos, drinkwaters, baba rahmans, Barkleys etc. No doubt. But there were some transfer which looked wrong from the offset (bakayoko), where you could see his lack of technical ability being a hindrance in a very fast paced league like the PL. I don't think a lot of us (or the footballing world), ever thought that our list of attackers would not pan out in such a way. Werner was indeed very close to Liverpool before we came in. That was not a smoke screen. The hype Kai had was definitely not something which i make up. I feel Puli had the talent and did show it, but like you said, injuries were a massive deterrent. All in all, i feel, this was a talented (not perfect), but very talented group of players. Just an year ago, our attacking options were touted as one of our biggest strengths.

Also i worry far more right now with some of our rumored buys. Some of the players that we are rumored to be close to, should not even be in conversation for this club. 

Edited August 24, 2022 by blahblahblah

[Pizy 18,916]

I just can’t get the potential price of Anthony Gordon out of my head. Every time the thought crosses my mind I just shake my head and think “my god…”

I think he’s got the attributes to be very useful in our team, but what an absolutely massive embarrassment it will be (for Tuchel and the club) if he is a bust. It will be a Kepa level situation.

[lucio 5,418]

1 hour ago, xPetrCechx said:

The big question is if he’s good enough.

Fofana will be good enough im pretty sure. Gordon unlikely , he’s the kinda guy you might give a chance to if he’s from your academy or a free agent. No one should be making him a marquee signing 

[Clockwork 1,794]

3 hours ago, DDA said:

At this moment in time and thinking about it, for quite some time before, yes, I do believe that all the players mentioned are not as good as the footballing World once thought they were. 

Lukaku was showing all the signs of being  a complete donkey at Man U.

Werner wasn't cutting it before TT came in and you could make an argument that his bucket full of missed chances were partially the reason we dropped points under Frank and led to his eventual sacking. 

Ziyech and Puli were both proving to be flash in the pan players under Frank.

CHO has not been the same since his injury. Facto.

So what about Sterling, 3 games in he seems to be suffering from the same thing. 
 

 

[Superblue 6,372]

12 minutes ago, blahblahblah said:

Honestly a very well written and thought out post. 

Don't disagree with much. 

Look, our previous regime WAS a lot of hit and miss. We had a fair share of bakayokos, drinkwaters, baba rahmans, Barkleys etc. No doubt. But there were some transfer which looked wrong from the offset (bakayoko), where you could see his lack of technical ability being a hindrance in a very fast paced league like the PL. I don't think a lot of us (or the footballing world), ever thought that our list of attackers would not pan out in such a way. Werner was indeed very close to Liverpool before we came in. That was not a smoke screen. The hype Kai had was definitely not something which i make up. I feel Puli had the talent and did show it, but like you said, injuries were a massive deterrent. All in all, i feel, this was a talented (not perfect), but very talented group of players. Just an year ago, our attacking options were touted as one of our biggest strengths.

Also i worry far more right now with some of our rumored buys. Some of the players that we are rumored to be close to, should not even be in conversation for this club. 

The biggest problem is that you can have as much talent as you want in a team and all individually there are arguments for what some of the players can possibly be, but it feels there was no real plan in our recruitment and how these players might mesh together into a cohesive unit.

Ultimately this goes hand in hand with the flip-flop nature of managerial appointments we've had because it's not just a conveyor belt of managers, but there's been no plan seemingly with their appointments either. We'll see in the future, but I believe when its time for Klopp and Pep to go that Liverpool and City won't rip up what has been built there but look to bring in a manager with similar values, philosophies, etc in the hope that it'll sync well with the squad they are inheriting. For years now, we've had an imbalanced squad bought under a multitude of different managers with different styles and formations and our attack is no different in this regard. 

At the very least now having someone that has been here for longer than a cup of coffee and a bit more stroke around the place like Tuchel seems to currently have, we are starting to move players on who should have been moved on years ago. That's not a process that is going to just take this summer, and there's a good possibility some players like Barkley just sit on the last year of their contracts here but I believe by next summer we'll have largely rid ourselves of a bloated squad and streamlined it. 

I don't see all of these links happening before the window closes, and I don't think the club should panic. It's a much shortened period before the January window with the World Cup in December. There's plenty of time to revisit moves for Fofana and Gordon if the club still wish to pursue them, but we should definitely be standing our ground with regards to bids on these players rather than just accepting the inevitable and agreeing to the seller club demands because the window is closing. 

If Tuchel is genuinely getting the backing from the new ownership and being given an extension, he has to buy into a longer term plan of thinking and that may involve waiting for certain players and as a result having to make do with what he has currently. Liverpool did the same with Van Dijk, City didn't panic buy last summer when they couldn't get Kane. We have to start operating in the same way. As an example, IF Rice is the one the club and Tuchel want for the midfield then wait for him instead of deviating away and picking up someone inferior because they're available now. We've done that far too many times before, just as recently as Lukaku last summer, and it never ends well.

I actually quite like parts of Anthony Gordon's game and I do see the potential there whereby he could become a very good player in the future and with young, flair players like that it's sometimes difficult to assess their ceiling right now but he certainly has the mentality and work rate to go far. The problem is the price being quoted stops it being a buy where you're taking a chance on what he can become, and instead you're having to assess what he is right now and he isn't a £60m player currently.