The Tuchel Thread

[R2D2 368]

1 hour ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Going to be an interesting summer on what he feels needs to be strengthened within the team. The more I think about it, the more I feel Sancho should be a priority. Particularly if CHO is willing to leave to Dortmund. We can create loads, but converting is questionable. You'd assume we'd improve on this matter, given the issue is collective. Adding Sancho who is a proven goal scorer can help, particularly if he is at the end of most chances. 

It is a massive gamble going into next season with no ST, but I think Sancho can help us tremendously. 

Havertz

Mount-----------Sancho 

Chilwell-------Tchouameni----Aouar------James

Rudiger----Christensen----Lacroix

Mendy

 

Werner

Pulisic--------Ziyech

LWB------Kovacic----Kante-----Dave

Guehi------Silva----Christensen

GK

 

 

With Jorginho unlikely to leave doubt we can get Aouar, as for Lacroix dunno hope it's Marquinhos but hard to get.

Sancho and Tchouameni are absolute must get though.

Edited May 30, 2021 by R2D2

[Tomo 21,751]

26 minutes ago, Jas said:

As that old man once said:

"When they have somebody who wins four Premier Leagues for them, I'll be No 2. For this moment, 'Judas' is No 1"

🤪

Yes but I guess it will boil down to just how much strength you put on UCL.

[Vesper 30,218]

I will not at all freak out if we do not sign Aouar

but starting to get that way with Aurélien Tchouaméni (unless we grab Camavinga)

[Jase 43,479]

15 minutes ago, R2D2 said:

With Jorginho unlikely to leave doubt we can get Aouar, as for Lacroix dunno hope it's Marquinhos but hard to get.

Sancho and Tchouameni are absolute must get though.

I don't see how we would get Sancho without CHO and/or Ziyech leaving. 

Going into the season with just Havertz and Werner as the striker options is asking a lot - one would suspect Tuchel would also use them a lot together - and none of the other attackers are capable of playing as a False 9.

Think we'll get a new striker, just don't think it'll be a big name one but a striker nonetheless to fit into Tuchel's system.

[Jase 43,479]

7 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Yes but I guess it will boil down to just how much strength you put on UCL.

I was half joking with that quote but just like Di Matteo, think Tuchel is already viewed differently - e.g. on a higher pedestal than most - having achieved something so many other managers never did. Winning the Premier League and Champions League are pretty big in itself and if Tuchel can win the former plus the two domestic cups as a side on top of the Champions League, it would put him alongside Mourinho at least I think. 

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

hace 3 horas, Jype dijo:

 

What an embarrassing take by Micah Richards. He must feel like a silly cunt now that his comments backfired in the worst possible way. Not only did Chelsea win the biggest club trophy out there only a few months later with Mason Mount and Reece James both playing key roles, they also did it in the final against Micah's beloved club Manchester City. You couldn't make it up. 😂

To be honest, I don’t think its exactly an unfair thing to say at the time a lot of people in the media as well as on here were upset and didn’t expect much from Tuchel, more so after the Wolves game especially. Plus half the usual naysayers on here were also gunning for Tuchels head after the Arsenal game and FA cup final so I think in all realism its not exactly harsh compared to some of the drivel that was posted in here by certain individuals *cough* morons *cough*....

As well as this, to be fair to Richards after we beat City twice and in the run up to the CL final as well he had said repeatedly that he was incredibly worried about us beating them, particularly after the Real games I think. And that same night he had also praised Tuchel as well as Mason countless times in several games as well as being someone who has said despite it not feeling right about what Frank had done, that Tuchel had done a good job IIRC or something along those lines. Maybe it was MOTD or on sky as well but I am sure he said and praised us for keeping the number or coean sheets we had with Tuchel.

Personally, the worst of it was probably Harry Redknapp saying he didn’t think Tuchel was a top top coach because he had won in France after Gary Neville said we had appointed another one of the best managers in Europe. That was what was down right disrespectful. All the others who maybe had doubts or alliances with Frank changes their tune. I wish they’d interviewed that saggy faced git Redknapp again after last night.

[Jase 43,479]

34 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

To be honest, I don’t think its exactly an unfair thing to say at the time a lot of people in the media as well as on here were upset and didn’t expect much from Tuchel, more so after the Wolves game especially.

How is it not unfair? Everyone just jumped on him after one game. It was a game where Tuchel only had 1 training session with the team before it and he even explained his choices fairly for that game in that he went with experience because of the drama caused by Lampard's sacking and a number of the young players were affected by that. Once he had a bit more time after that to evaluate and for the players to calm down, he started playing Mount, James etc against in the following game. The English media were in way over their heads with Lampard and once the results started to flow in, they suddenly realized Tuchel is a good coach and better than Lampard (not that they have dared to say anything about that). 

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

hace 11 minutos, Jas dijo:

How is it not unfair? Everyone just jumped on him after one game. It was a game where Tuchel only had 1 training session with the team before it and he even explained his choices fairly for that game in that he went with experience because of the drama caused by Lampard's sacking and a number of the young players were affected by that. Once he had a bit more time after that to evaluate and for the players to calm down, he started playing Mount, James etc against in the following game. The English media were in way over their heads with Lampard and once the results started to flow in, they suddenly realized Tuchel is a good coach and better than Lampard (not that they have dared to say anything about that). 

It was always going to be expected and thats why its not exactly unfair to say that it would happen with British press. 

I mean anyone who thought he would get an easy ride didn't learn anything from the media frenzy and beatdown Villas-Boas got for alienating players who had close ties in the media (which Gary Neville had openly said recently that players were getting in touch with the media regarding him pre Napoli game) as well as after his sacking too. I mean AVB was a different scenario and the reaction was a bit different but ideally thats when I realised anytime we change manager regardless, there will be some sort of negativity before the next guys come in and done anything or huge negativity surrounding the guy who’s left. Its the way of the media. 

Think about it, Franks a well respected ex footballer, legend at the club and young manager who lost his job after 18 months, did you think the knifes weren’t going to be out and pointed at Tuchel before the Wolves game and therefor after it as well by sections of the British media and pundits? Would of been naive to think other wise.

 If the season had gone differently, it would be that article x 10000 severe. 

Edited May 30, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[Jase 43,479]

10 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

It was always going to be expected and thats why its not exactly unfair to say that it would happen with British press. 

I mean anyone who thought he would get an easy ride didn't learn anything from the media frenzy and beatdown Villas-Boas got for alienating players who had close ties in the media (which Gary Neville had openly said recently that players were getting in touch with the media regarding him pre Napoli game) as well as after his sacking too. I mean AVB was a different scenario and the reaction was a bit different but ideally thats when I realised anytime we change manager regardless, there will be some sort of negativity before the next guys come in and done anything or huge negativity surrounding the guy who’s left. Its the way of the media. 

Think about it, Franks a well respected ex footballer, legend at the club and young manager who lost his job after 18 months, did you think the knifes weren’t going to be out and pointed at Tuchel before the Wolves game and therefor after it as well by sections of the British media and pundits? Would of been naive to think other wise.

 If the season had gone differently, it would be that article x 10000 severe. 

Just because it was to be expected with the British press, it doesn't mean they are right to react the way they always do. It's tiring and at times, bordering on xenophobia. 

Off the top of my head, in recent years, I remember they caused a commotion when Southampton sacked Nigel Adkins and replaced him with Pochettino. Then there was Paul Merson and Phil Thompson ranting about Marco Silva on TV when he got the Hull job because he didn't know English football and came from Olympiakos. Guardiola got battered from all direction in his first season in English football because he wanted to do things his way but they then praised him once he got City firing in his second season. Sarri got hammered by the press for daring to play Kante as an attacking midfielder in his 4-3-3 but when Lampard did the same last season, barely anything was said. And of course, there's the nonsense OTT reaction with Tuchel when he first came but then changed their tune once the results started to pick up.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

hace 19 minutos, Jas dijo:

Just because it was to be expected with the British press, it doesn't mean they are right to react the way they always do. It's tiring and at times, bordering on xenophobia. 

Off the top of my head, in recent years, I remember they caused a commotion when Southampton sacked Nigel Adkins and replaced him with Pochettino. Then there was Paul Merson and Phil Thompson ranting about Marco Silva on TV when he got the Hull job because he didn't know English football and came from Olympiakos. Guardiola got battered from all direction in his first season in English football because he wanted to do things his way but they then praised him once he got City firing in his second season. Sarri got hammered by the press for daring to play Kante as an attacking midfielder in his 4-3-3 but when Lampard did the same last season, barely anything was said. And of course, there's the nonsense OTT reaction with Tuchel when he first came but then changed their tune once the results started to pick up.

It isn’t great obviously but this is elite sport and the British media are the British media. And whilst your mentioning xenophobia, there are individuals/sections of the British media that are racist, without a shadow of a doubt and without turning this into politics etc, just look at the reaction to Meghan Markle when she married into royalty....

Some of these articles relating to managers like youve listed, yes, it is close to bordering on xenophobia. For me, it is even more ironic because the English game is widely talked about as the best league in the world. Why is this though? Why is the standards so good? It is only the best league in the world because it is full of the best players and managers which the majority of them are not British. So aye it maybe is unfair but not to expect this sort of approach from the media, lets be real, it won’t change anytime soon, which is unfortunate (outside of sport even more so). 

If City were to sack Pep/Liverpool to sack Klopp/Leicester to sack Rodgers/Man United to sack Ole it would be the same probably be a lot of scepticism and a lot of disregard or disrespect for whoever came in after. Thats how it is. These guys are well respected managers by the media, I mean imagine if City sacked Pep at the beginning of the season when they had their bad start and say appointed Julian Nagglesmann or someone else for say? They would probably have got the same treatment but for different reasons because of Peps CV and what he’s achieved. 

Edited May 30, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

If City were to sack Pep/Liverpool to sack Klopp/Leicester to sack Rodgers/Man United to sack Ole it would be the same probably be a lot of scepticism and a lot of disregard or disrespect for whoever came in after. Thats how it is. These guys are well respected managers by the media, I mean imagine if City sacked Pep at the beginning of the season when they had their bad start and say appointed Julian Nagglesmann or someone else for say? They would probably have got the same treatment but for different reasons because of Peps CV and what he’s achieved. 

It depends. They jumped on Pochettino and Silva because they were relatively unknowns and have not achieved anything of note. Guardiola and Sarri got battered because they wanted to do things their way, things that are unconventional to how English football have seen over the years and let's not forget Guardiola had (still has) a strong CV after Barcelona and Bayern when he came to City. If Nagelsmann is appointed by one of those clubs, I doubt they would question him so much since he's widely regarded as the best young manager out there and the English press seem fascinated by him because on what I've seen.

[Vesper 30,218]

13 minutes ago, Jas said:

Think we'll get a new striker, just don't think it'll be a big name one but a striker nonetheless to fit into Tuchel's system.

any guesses?

here is a big list of those NOT named  Kylian Mbappé, Harry Kane, Erling Håland, Romelu Lukaku, Lautaro Martínez, or Robert Lewandowski or Karim Benzema (the only 7 WC CF's atm IMHO)
 

first my personal sleeper picks

Dusan Vlahovic  
Patson Daka
Lucas Alario  
Youssef En-Nesyri  
Jonathan David
Adam Hlozek  (super teenage Czech, big, strong, skilled, pacey, turns 19 on July 25th, accounted for 24 goals scored in only 1800 minutes, Adam Hlozek scores four goals in 23 minutes during sensational outing for Sparta Prague)
 

 

and the big list (NOT saying I rate all, or even most of these, just listing most all possible)

Victor Osimhen  
Anthony Martial  
Dominic Calvert-Lewin  (a perfect Tuchel CF, but would be crazy expensive)  
Memphis Depay   
André Silva    
Andrea Belotti    
Ollie Watkins   
Alexander Isak    
Donyell Malen  
Wout Weghorst    
Rafael Leão    
Kevin Volland    
Andrej Kramaric    
Fábio Silva    
Maxi Gómez    
Iñaki Williams   
Moussa Dembélé    
Alassane Plea    
Callum Wilson   
Kasper Dolberg     
Ivan Toney   
Amine Gouiri     
Sasa Kalajdzic (2.0m tall, West Ham looking at him, 23yo, Stuttgart, 17 goals, 6 assists in 2400 minutes)  
Paul Onuachu   (2.01m tall, insane amount of goals/assists for 35+5) turned 27 two days ago, late bloomer
Odsonne Edouard
Myron Boadu    
Giovanni Simeone 
Kaio Jorge  
Alfredo Morelos 
Matheus Cunha 
Fedor Chalov    
João Pedro  
Arnaud Kalimuendo  
 

[Superblue 6,372]

6 hours ago, Tomo said:

Here's a million dollar question.

If he wins a PL title with us becoming the first Chelsea manager to do both then does Jose get knocked down to number two?

Hopefully it's not a case of too much, too soon because it'll still be some effort next season to make that gap up on City and overtake them to win the league. If we improve and are 5-10 points behind them next season is that enough to keep faith in him that we're moving in the right direction under his guidance? I hope so.

I think for me, in order to overtake Jose it's not so much the number of Premier League titles (although he obviously needs to add to this Champions League trophy with more success), but it's building that young core that we do have at the club into a group, and marry that with some superb signings that can together hopefully bring sustained success to the club even after his reign. Even the 2012 win still had a core of Jose's players in it and his blueprint in the approach.

I think Tuchel needs 2 - 3 years here to really put his stamp on this group and to be able to add to the Champions League with some more trophies. 

[NikkiCFC 8,334]

12 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Hopefully it's not a case of too much, too soon because it'll still be some effort next season to make that gap up on City and overtake them to win the league. If we improve and are 5-10 points behind them next season is that enough to keep faith in him that we're moving in the right direction under his guidance? I hope so.

I think Tuchel needs 2 - 3 years here to really put his stamp on this group and to be able to add to the Champions League with some more trophies. 

But what gap? First part of the season is pretty much irrelevant. Since Tuchel is here we finished 2nd with 7 points behind City. And this team should won against WBA, Arsenal, Brighton...  Timo and Kai have big chances conversation rate of around 25%. Basically we just need them to be more clinical and I think this team can win title even without any new players.

Secondly I never understood this narrative of closing the gap... We finished behind Liverpool 2 points this season and 33 in the season before. Everything can change.

I mean, of all fans, we should know this... We finished 1st, 10th, 1st, 5th in 4 seasons in a row...

Us, Pool, City... All these teams can have 65 points next season or 95. We dont know that... We all start from zero and there is no any gap.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

hace 4 horas, Jas dijo:

It depends. They jumped on Pochettino and Silva because they were relatively unknowns and have not achieved anything of note. Guardiola and Sarri got battered because they wanted to do things their way, things that are unconventional to how English football have seen over the years and let's not forget Guardiola had (still has) a strong CV after Barcelona and Bayern when he came to City. If Nagelsmann is appointed by one of those clubs, I doubt they would question him so much since he's widely regarded as the best young manager out there and the English press seem fascinated by him because on what I've seen.

Maybe Nagelsmann was a bad example.

But someone else, I don’t know who else it could be but someone who is maybe in the bracket of not a novice coach but someone who isnt exactly a household name. As you said before, guys in the mould of Pochettino, Marco Silva etc.

For instance maybe Sarri or someone going in to replace one of these guys Pep or Klopp as unlikely as it would be. Or maybe even the sort of press Villas-Boas got replacing everyone’s favourite Harry Redknapp, which after the media scrutiny he got after his spell here was never going to bode well.

Unfortunately whoever came in after Frank was going to get some sort of shit from the media. Be it right or wrong, its to be expected.

[Superblue 6,372]

14 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

But what gap? First part of the season is pretty much irrelevant. Since Tuchel is here we finished 2nd with 7 points behind City. And this team should won against WBA, Arsenal, Brighton...  Timo and Kai have big chances conversation rate of around 25%. Basically we just need them to be more clinical and I think this team can win title even without any new players.

Secondly I never understood this narrative of closing the gap... We finished behind Liverpool 2 points this season and 33 in the season before. Everything can change.

I mean, of all fans, we should know this... We finished 1st, 10th, 1st, 5th in 4 seasons in a row...

Us, Pool, City... All these teams can have 65 points next season or 95. We dont know that... We all start from zero and there is no any gap.

I mean the gap to the team at the top. You're right this season we've closed the gap on Liverpool but essentially we're not really any closer to the title than we were the year before when we're that far behind, so it's difficult to argue there was any progress this season with regards to our league form.

I don't want us holding on to 4th place going into the last game of the season again. There has to be progress with regards to being closer to the top of the league. My hope is that even if we finish a few points off top spot next season, progress will be identified by the club and more time will be given to Tuchel. 

[DDA 9,941]

Honestly, I would go all out for Sancho rather than Lukaku and carry on playing Havertz in the false 9/hybrid role. 

Then a ball playing CM who has vision

 and a CB.. Kounde.

These 3 additions would put us in serious contention for the title. 

[Vesper 30,218]

37 minutes ago, DDA said:

Honestly, I would go all out for Sancho rather than Lukaku and carry on playing Havertz in the false 9/hybrid role. 

Then a ball playing CM who has vision

 and a CB.. Kounde.

These 3 additions would put us in serious contention for the title. 

Jules Koundé is a tiny, short CB, only 1.78m

we would get roasted alive on crosses, free kicks, corners

overrated IMHO, and he is not even a left-footer

hard pass

so many other, more suitable options

These are the only left-footed CB's I rate atm (they are so rare, Pep is going for Bastoni, and has Ake and Laporte as well, and has been sniffing around Pau Torres too)

Alessandro Bastoni   (my choice, but will be expensive , at least $65-70m, maybe more)
Aymeric Laporte (if Citeh is selling him to fund buys)
Pau Torres   
Alessio Romagnoli (AC are selling him, they need cash)
Sven Botman (1.95m 21 year old Dutch CB from Lille, a monster in the making)
Benoît Badiashile (1.94m 20 year old French CB from Monaco)
Evan N'Dicka    
Josko Gvardiol (19yo Croatian from Dinamo Zagreb)
Renan Victor da Silva (a just turned 19yo from Palmeiras)
David Carmo 1.96m 21yo from Braga

only ambipedal CB I rate is Caglar Söyüncü and he would be crazy overpriced

 

in terms of right-footed CB's

Marquinhos  
Raphaël Varane  (Real will cut a deal, or he walks on a free in 2022)  
José María Giménez    (too expensive a release clause at 120m euros, and injuries worry me)
Wesley Fofana 
Milan Skriniar    
Maxence Lacroix  
Duje Caleta-Car
Gianluca Mancini 

  

[Jase 43,479]

 

[Jase 43,479]

6 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

But what gap? First part of the season is pretty much irrelevant. Since Tuchel is here we finished 2nd with 7 points behind City. And this team should won against WBA, Arsenal, Brighton...  Timo and Kai have big chances conversation rate of around 25%. Basically we just need them to be more clinical and I think this team can win title even without any new players.

Secondly I never understood this narrative of closing the gap... We finished behind Liverpool 2 points this season and 33 in the season before. Everything can change.

I mean, of all fans, we should know this... We finished 1st, 10th, 1st, 5th in 4 seasons in a row...

Us, Pool, City... All these teams can have 65 points next season or 95. We dont know that... We all start from zero and there is no any gap.

 

6 hours ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I mean the gap to the team at the top. You're right this season we've closed the gap on Liverpool but essentially we're not really any closer to the title than we were the year before when we're that far behind, so it's difficult to argue there was any progress this season with regards to our league form.

I don't want us holding on to 4th place going into the last game of the season again. There has to be progress with regards to being closer to the top of the league. My hope is that even if we finish a few points off top spot next season, progress will be identified by the club and more time will be given to Tuchel. 

Have we actually closed the gap on Liverpool? I mean the points gap is one thing but there is still no telling the difference or disparity in performance level over the course of the season between us and them because of the injury problems they had this season.