closed Man United 0-0 Chelsea

[OhForAGreavsie 5,761]

1 hour ago, Atomiswave said:

THis shit will be exposed one day im certain of it, but sadly in UK the powerful protect the powerful so it will take longer. There really should be no doubt that EPL is corrupt, PGMOL right after the game said the Azpi pen was not a pen and thus it wasnt given. Thats a huge red flag, they are laughing at us. They were never fit for purpose.

To what purpose do you claim the system is corrupted? For whose benefit? In other words please identify the powerful who are to be protected in this case?

[Atomiswave 6,072]

Just now, OhForAGreavsie said:

To what purpose do you claim the system is corrupted? For whose benefit? In other words please identify the powerful who are to be protected in this case?

IM about to leave, but to make it short, you have the FA, PGMOL, people behind the scenes, betting cartels etc. Alot of mony to be made. Surely you have see what is going on in EPL.

And since we know that England is corrupt from its banking systems through to its local councils, why would one be determined to believe that this is not happening in football?

After all, we already know football is staggeringly corrupt in terms of Fifa and Uefa.  I have been through this so many times before on this forum, and there are so many members of Fifa who have either been found guilty or are awaiting trial, that surely not many can be in doubt.

And how many times do we have to quote the refereeing scandal in Italy? The shit is bent to its core. The decision making and inconsistency is a huge red flag initself.

[MoroccanBlue 5,132]

3 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

IM about to leave, but to make it short, you have the FA, PGMOL, people behind the scenes, betting cartels etc. Alot of mony to be made. Surely you have see what is going on in EPL.

And since we know that England is corrupt from its banking systems through to its local councils, why would one be determined to believe that this is not happening in football?

After all, we already know football is staggeringly corrupt in terms of Fifa and Uefa.  I have been through this so many times before on this forum, and there are so many members of Fifa who have either been found guilty or are awaiting trial, that surely not many can be in doubt.

And how many times do we have to quote the refereeing scandal in Italy? The shit is bent to its core. The decision making and inconsistency is a huge red flag initself.

All that is anecdotal. Not tangible. 

I truly believe refs in England are just shit. There's a reason they don't go to world cups any more. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

10 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

All that is anecdotal. Not tangible. 

I truly believe refs in England are just shit. There's a reason they don't go to world cups any more. 

Thats BS in my world, you are free to beleiev what you wanna believe. Even if thats true why havent they been demoted ages ago? Why has it gotten so bad and so obvious even when using VAR? Its match fixing.

When we turn to PGMO that runs refereeing what we find is a highly secretive organisation that operates in a way that seems to invite corruption.  As I have said before if you wanted to ensure that corruption did not take place in refereeing in the Premier League the first thing you would do would be to employ enough top referees so that no team got the same referee more than twice in a season.  Thus if you did have a corrupted ref, the most that could happen would be that the club would be hammered twice.

Other countries in Europe have that rule.  Not the Premier League.  The richest league in the world.   One might want to ask the PGMO why.  But then in trying to do so we find they are a society that is more secret than the Masons.  Indeed you might not know but Untold tried to ask referee associations across Europe a series of questions about how they organise certain matters in their countries.  One replied on day one, the rest never did.  "We heard that an instruction had gone out, not to answer us".  You might wonder why.

The PL imposes all sorts of regulations upon broadcasters in terms of what they can and can’t say.  The PL can do this, because it owns the licence rights, and because there are multiple bidders for the licences they can put all sorts of conditions in their contracts.  And they do. Since they have a monopoly on the sale of the product, there is no limitation on what they can impose in the contract, and if one bidder doesn’t like it, they can’t bid.

And here’s another thing.  Any bidder who wants to bid for broadcast rights or the rights even to publish the fixtures, has to sign a contract about not revealing the restrictions in the contract before that organisation even gets the contract.

Of course none of this means that something is wrong, only that there is far more chance that something is wrong than there is a chance that it is all clean and perfect.  And what tips the balance of probabilities totally in the favour of their being wholesale corruption comes from our referee reviews and the reviews undertaken on the Referee Decisions website by qualified referees who supported clubs other than lets say Chelsea.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,761]

51 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

IM about to leave, but to make it short, you have the FA, PGMOL, people behind the scenes, betting cartels etc. Alot of mony to be made. Surely you have see what is going on in EPL.

And since we know that England is corrupt from its banking systems through to its local councils, why would one be determined to believe that this is not happening in football?

After all, we already know football is staggeringly corrupt in terms of Fifa and Uefa.  I have been through this so many times before on this forum, and there are so many members of Fifa who have either been found guilty or are awaiting trial, that surely not many can be in doubt.

And how many times do we have to quote the refereeing scandal in Italy? The shit is bent to its core. The decision making and inconsistency is a huge red flag initself.

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply before heading off.

Yes, I've seen countless cases of poor decisions being made against sides of every stature. It's about the conclusions to be drawn from that evidence however. Personally, I have always dismissed the idea that there was anything other than error involved but Saturday's incident made me pause. It is very, very hard to see how an honest viewing of the VAR replays can have reached any conclusion other than to award a penalty. So, what's to be made of this? You have a very wide ranging list of culprits there.

I'm not saying that I believe this because without actual evidence I don't believe anything, but an individual in the pay of a betting cabal is a circumstance we could all understand. Someone who has been got at, or who can't resist the money to be made is the kind of thing which we know happens. Even if we didn't know it, we could still imagine it. An individual sitting in front of a TV monitor making bent decisions, and being backed by another person higher up giving him cover does not come under my definition of powerful or corrupt however. It's just a criminal activity. On the other hand, The FA does come under that heading so, if true, its involvement would indeed be corrupt. I have to tell you though that I think accusations of their involvement should be filed under crackpot conspiracy theory.

One problem with conspiracy theories is that they always imagine the conspirators to be way more competent than they could ever be in real life. A group of individuals might decide to line their pockets but for the FA to do so as an organisation would involve the knowledge of dozens if not hundreds of people. It would leak. It always does. Trump is a criminal backed by entire organs of the state which are complicit yet his crimes still get exposed. The FA's power by comparison is tin-pot. If they did this we'd know about it sooner rather than later.

In any case, what does the FA as an organisation gain from this behaviour? Money? It would have to be huge amounts to justify the risks and how would they hide so much loot? Any attempt to hide it would have to involve something like fake sponsorships which are really funded by the betting rings. More people in the know, more money chains more certainty of eventual exposure.

Until I see evidence, and supposition is not evidence of course, I will continue to dismiss these allegations. I think we all should. 

[NikkiCFC 7,427]

I think mistakes happen due to some refs refereeing favorite teams and due to incompetence. 

If we had challenge like they do it in tennis, NBA, Atkinson would have to go to the monitor and he would 100% give the penalty.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

1 hour ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply before heading off.

Yes, I've seen countless cases of poor decisions being made against sides of every stature. It's about the conclusions to be drawn from that evidence however. Personally, I have always dismissed the idea that there was anything other than error involved but Saturday's incident made me pause. It is very, very hard to see how an honest viewing of the VAR replays can have reached any conclusion other than to award a penalty. So, what's to be made of this? You have a very wide ranging list of culprits there.

I'm not saying that I believe this because without actual evidence I don't believe anything, but an individual in the pay of a betting cabal is a circumstance we could all understand. Someone who has been got at, or who can't resist the money to be made is the kind of thing which we know happens. Even if we didn't know it, we could still imagine it. An individual sitting in front of a TV monitor making bent decisions, and being backed by another person higher up giving him cover does not come under my definition of powerful or corrupt however. It's just a criminal activity. On the other hand, The FA does come under that heading so, if true, its involvement would indeed be corrupt. I have to tell you though that I think accusations of their involvement should be filed under crackpot conspiracy theory.

One problem with conspiracy theories is that they always imagine the conspirators to be way more competent than they could ever be in real life. A group of individuals might decide to line their pockets but for the FA to do so as an organisation would involve the knowledge of dozens if not hundreds of people. It would leak. It always does. Trump is a criminal backed by entire organs of the state which are complicit yet his crimes still get exposed. The FA's power by comparison is tin-pot. If they did this we'd know about it sooner rather than later.

In any case, what does the FA as an organisation gain from this behaviour? Money? It would have to be huge amounts to justify the risks and how would they hide so much loot? Any attempt to hide it would have to involve something like fake sponsorships which are really funded by the betting rings. More people in the know, more money chains more certainty of eventual exposure.

Until I see evidence, and supposition is not evidence of course, I will continue to dismiss these allegations. I think we all should. 

Well said, on the topic of sponsors: This doesn’t change the fact the league is inevitably going to be corrupt because there are huge sponsors who need to be kept happy. There are worldwide TV rights at stake, including huge markets such as China and the USA as well as money from other Middle Eastern states such as Qatar). There are also TV rights for Saudi Arabia themselves, with the country being one of the richest on the planet. But the biggest thing for the Premier League, who market themselves as the best league in the world, is the image. For me personnely its clear the league is bent. For how long must we say the refs are bad, how incompenet can you become before your replaced? None of that is happening. Theres not 1 rule, no consistency at all and blatant BS gets swept under the carpet. Udt last season were pushed to get CL, by one BS pen after the other.

[Jase 43,479]

3 hours ago, communicate said:

I am quite confused with people who criticize our midfield. They weren't great but they were fine.

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said:

I think mistakes happen due to some refs refereeing favorite teams and due to incompetence. 

If we had challenge like they do it in tennis, NBA, Atkinson would have to go to the monitor and he would 100% give the penalty.

The first sentence is an understatement.

Had it been the other way round, the penalty would have been given immediately.

Instead, no penalty was given, there was no VAR check, there were barely any TV replays until much later on and VAR checked the subsequent challenge from Silva (IIRC) on Rashford god knows how many times after that.

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, kellzfresh said:

Our progression of the ball only coming from the fullbacks is making our attack predictable. We have to find a way to make the midfield contribute to forward movement

The midfield was so deep, one of the front 3 played deeper and there was barely any passing attempt from midfield to the front but the midfield is fine apparently...

[Fulham Broadway 16,242]

3 hours ago, Atomiswave said:

Well said, on the topic of sponsors: This doesn’t change the fact the league is inevitably going to be corrupt because there are huge sponsors who need to be kept happy. There are worldwide TV rights at stake, including huge markets such as China and the USA as well as money from other Middle Eastern states such as Qatar). There are also TV rights for Saudi Arabia themselves, with the country being one of the richest on the planet. But the biggest thing for the Premier League, who market themselves as the best league in the world, is the image. For me personnely its clear the league is bent. For how long must we say the refs are bad, how incompenet can you become before your replaced? None of that is happening. Theres not 1 rule, no consistency at all and blatant BS gets swept under the carpet. Udt last season were pushed to get CL, by one BS pen after the other.

There was that Secret Life of a Footballer serialised in the Guardian. A Premier League player. He alluded to betting cartels in Asia that determine results on the macro scale, that the FA, Premier League, UEFA would never reveal as that would shaft their revenue big time, and as you said tarnish the image.  At team level he said it was so common for players to test positive for cocaine - the clubs always deal with it 'in house' (Mutu an exception), they fine the player usually about two weeks wages, suspend often for a couple of games - then put out a press release about a pulled hamstring/groin strain etc

Remember Fowlers goal celebration

 

[kellzfresh 7,226]

3 hours ago, Jason said:

The midfield was so deep, one of the front 3 played deeper and there was barely any passing attempt from midfield to the front but the midfield is fine apparently...

No matter how many times Werner or Pulisic made runs, the midfield never attempted to pass the ball in behind to them. Fabregas would get 20 EPL assists with Werner and Pulisic easily.

[Vesper 26,875]

19 minutes ago, kellzfresh said:

No matter how many times Werner or Pulisic made runs, the midfield never attempted to pass the ball in behind to them. Fabregas would get 20 EPL assists with Werner and Pulisic easily.

losing Fabregas has, over multiple years now, so fucked us

if only he had been 5 years younger when he got him

he was a fucking wizard of a passer

we so so so do not have that

we have Kante and Zouma who cant even get the ball onto the next person with a decent short pass

Havertz REALLY needs to step up with his passing

but even more so

Ziyech

he has insane passing ability

ad has simply hot showed it yet, other than the pre injury

[Jase 43,479]

7 minutes ago, kellzfresh said:

No matter how many times Werner or Pulisic made runs, the midfield never attempted to pass the ball in behind to them. Fabregas would get 20 EPL assists with Werner and Pulisic easily.

Exactly and unless teams sit off us, our midfield doesn't control games, doesn't dominate games enough to allow our attacking players to shine properly. 

[Muzchap 8,955]

6 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

All that is anecdotal. Not tangible. 

I truly believe refs in England are just shit. There's a reason they don't go to world cups any more. 

Issuing 3 yellow cards didn't help 🤣

 

[Muzchap 8,955]

1 hour ago, Fulham Broadway said:

There was that Secret Life of a Footballer serialised in the Guardian. A Premier League player. He alluded to betting cartels in Asia that determine results on the macro scale, that the FA, Premier League, UEFA would never reveal as that would shaft their revenue big time, and as you said tarnish the image.  At team level he said it was so common for players to test positive for cocaine - the clubs always deal with it 'in house' (Mutu an exception), they fine the player usually about two weeks wages, suspend often for a couple of games - then put out a press release about a pulled hamstring/groin strain etc

Remember Fowlers goal celebration

 

So Pulisic loves the Bolivian powder then 🤔

[communicate 2,703]

6 hours ago, Jason said:

The midfield was so deep, one of the front 3 played deeper and there was barely any passing attempt from midfield to the front but the midfield is fine apparently...

Do you have the passing map for our play under Conte? 

I'll be surprised if our passing map is not similar as above unless cesc is playing. 

 

[Strike 6,820]

8 hours ago, Vesper said:

losing Fabregas has, over multiple years now, so fucked us

if only he had been 5 years younger when he got him

he was a fucking wizard of a passer

we so so so do not have that

we have Kante and Zouma who cant even get the ball onto the next person with a decent short pass

Havertz REALLY needs to step up with his passing

but even more so

Ziyech

he has insane passing ability

ad has simply hot showed it yet, other than the pre injury

Re: Ziyech. Think cameos don't mean much . Needs to play the Krasnodar game to see him and his passing game

[Jase 43,479]

3 hours ago, communicate said:

Do you have the passing map for our play under Conte? 

I'll be surprised if our passing map is not similar as above unless cesc is playing. 

I don't have the passing map but you're kidding yourself if you think it's similar to without Fabregas back then when (a) Conte is known to instill patterns of play into his team, (b) Fabregas was not even favored initially by Conte and (c) we played some of our best football under Conte and Fabregas didn't even play in some of them (e.g. Fabregas not playing half of our 13-game winning run in 2016/17). The midfield back then was not perfect of course but passing forward or creativity wasn't really an issue compared to now. And in some ways, I guess we're seeing now the difference between a manager who really instills patterns of play into the team and one who doesn't really do that. One has a proper team structure while another doesn't.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

9 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

There was that Secret Life of a Footballer serialised in the Guardian. A Premier League player. He alluded to betting cartels in Asia that determine results on the macro scale, that the FA, Premier League, UEFA would never reveal as that would shaft their revenue big time, and as you said tarnish the image.  At team level he said it was so common for players to test positive for cocaine - the clubs always deal with it 'in house' (Mutu an exception), they fine the player usually about two weeks wages, suspend often for a couple of games - then put out a press release about a pulled hamstring/groin strain etc

Remember Fowlers goal celebration

 

Didnt know that actually, will have a look later today thanks. Doesnt surprise me at all mate.