Mikel John Obi

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Seriously? A DM is there to break up attacks and then pass the ball to the more creative players

Busquets, Alonso etc pinging out long passes.

Mikel is too slow to do this and he is isnt a good passer, which again, is why Romeu and Luiz are preferred

Its all to easy to stop chelsea, just cut of the supply to Mata and co, thats why you need your DM's to be able to find them with a pass when needed

Claude Makelele is the greatest defensive midfielder of all time and all he did was pass sideways. The players you are referring to - Busquets, Alonso - they are not defensive midfielders. Alonso is a deep-lying playmaker and Busquets is at the rear of the double pivot alongside Xavi, with the two alternating. Barcelona almost have a triple pivot in essence, with Fabregas or Iniesta then rotating with the double pivot positions. And as for your argument saying Mikel isn't a very good passer, you clearly don't watch him. His ability to play weighted long balls into the channels is one of our best counter-attacking tools yet he is not able to use it since we don't use natural wingers. Go back to the Ancelotti era and watch games where Anelka and Malouda operated out wide and you'll see my point.

Either way, you're getting things mixed up a little.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Thank fuck, I'm not the only one with eyes! Excellent post.

Mikel's importance to this team is so painstakingly obvious but people choose to ignore it anyway. Excellent post indeed. His maturity and discipline are absolutely pivotal to the way we play. It means that Lampard can bomb forward like he wanted to on Wednesday but without leaving massive gaps. JOM12 plugs them instantly. He is incredibly tactically astute and even if he is a little rash at times, in general his defensive discipline is unparalleled in the EPL.

People understand his role in the team and what he's asked to do (it's not about having eyes as you assert) but some (like me) simply don't think he's good enough. I don't like his attitude more than anything and I think he lacks the personality or assertiveness to really dominate in that position. It's funny that you mention maturity and discipline as being pivotal to the way we play- I agree which is why their absence when it comes to him makes us weak.

My problem with him is that he's a weak human being. He's not a leader and it's getting high time that people stop making excuses for him because he's not a youngster anymore. He's a 26 year old man with over 200 appearances for this club and he should start stepping up especially when we're struggling, but too often he simply gets carried along with the tide. If we're playing well, he looks good but if we're playing poorly he simply fades into the background.

This club's success was built on men, not boys.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

A pass is about a passer and a receiver. If I have to pick between Mikel's passing range and Hazard (improving) poor positional sense, I know what facet I'll aim first

You realy think that the problem is with our AM's? what do you expect from Hazard? to come back and get the ball from MIkel? he's a winger.

Its a fact that we dont have a CM/DM who can pick passes as good as other top teams have (teams who plays simillar type of football), a Playmaker, and Mikel realy isnt close to be good enough in that. its not only about passing range, its about timing, its about his speed of thought in picking passes, its funny to even think its good enough to "Lead" our central midfield. But the biggest problem for me is with the midfielder besides Mikel, the ball should be played through this player, and we dont have one who can do that.

[Kojo 4,676]

You realy think that the problem is with our AM's? what do you expect from Hazard? to come back and get the ball from MIkel? he's a winger.

Its a fact that we dont have a CM/DM who can pick passes as good as other top teams have (teams who plays simillar type of football), a Playmaker, and Mikel realy isnt close to be good enough in that. its not only about passing range, its about timing, its about his speed of thought in picking passes, its funny to even think its good enough to "Lead" our central midfield. But the biggest problem for me is with the midfielder besides Mikel, the ball should be played through this player, and we dont have one who can do that.

If Mikel shot someone in the face, an excuse would be made. It's the way the world works now.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

No one's saying Mikel should be that player though? It's why Modric would exactly fit in nicely next to Mikel.

We haven't got a playmaker in the pivot, everyone knows this. Nobody's saying Mikel's meant to be that person either. We need someone next to Mikel to provide those passes from deep, and someone like Modric would fit very nicely.

A Modric - Mikel midfield would be awesome IMO.

Seb havent said that, right, but he did said: "If I have to pick between Mikel's passing range and Hazard (improving) poor positional sense, I know what facet I'll aim first", when he also said in the same post "Mikel has barely good options ahead of him", so it sounds like he thinks that the problem is more about the AM's positioning. I think its about the two behind them. Now like i said the solution need to come from the CM next to Mikel, but my point is that Mikel's passing skills are not something to defend in this particular subject (like Seb did), because he doesnt offer any kind of solution.

[The Skipper 20,593]

People understand his role in the team and what he's asked to do (it's not about having eyes as you assert) but some (like me) simply don't think he's good enough. I don't like his attitude more than anything and I think he lacks the personality or assertiveness to really dominate in that position. It's funny that you mention maturity and discipline as being pivotal to the way we play- I agree which is why their absence when it comes to him makes us weak.

My problem with him is that he's a weak human being. He's not a leader and it's getting high time that people stop making excuses for him because he's not a youngster anymore. He's a 26 year old man with over 200 appearances for this club and he should start stepping up especially when we're struggling, but too often he simply gets carried along with the tide. If we're playing well, he looks good but if we're playing poorly he simply fades into the background.

This club's success was built on men, not boys.

Weak human being? Based on what? Let's completely forget that Mikel STILL played for us whilst his father got abducted in Nigeria. Weak human being my ass.

[communicate 2,703]

People understand his role in the team and what he's asked to do (it's not about having eyes as you assert) but some (like me) simply don't think he's good enough. I don't like his attitude more than anything and I think he lacks the personality or assertiveness to really dominate in that position. It's funny that you mention maturity and discipline as being pivotal to the way we play- I agree which is why their absence when it comes to him makes us weak.

My problem with him is that he's a weak human being. He's not a leader and it's getting high time that people stop making excuses for him because he's not a youngster anymore. He's a 26 year old man with over 200 appearances for this club and he should start stepping up especially when we're struggling, but too often he simply gets carried along with the tide. If we're playing well, he looks good but if we're playing poorly he simply fades into the background.

This club's success was built on men, not boys.

He is a a holding player after all. His role offensively is to recycle possesion there is no apparent value (assist / goal) although it is very important. When we are playing defensive football then people will start notice his work. I remember people said how good mikel was during our ucl run.

[Blue Armour 4,168]

Claude Makelele is the greatest defensive midfielder of all time and all he did was pass sideways. The players you are referring to - Busquets, Alonso - they are not defensive midfielders. Alonso is a deep-lying playmaker and Busquets is at the rear of the double pivot alongside Xavi, with the two alternating. Barcelona almost have a triple pivot in essence, with Fabregas or Iniesta then rotating with the double pivot positions. And as for your argument saying Mikel isn't a very good passer, you clearly don't watch him. His ability to play weighted long balls into the channels is one of our best counter-attacking tools yet he is not able to use it since we don't use natural wingers. Go back to the Ancelotti era and watch games where Anelka and Malouda operated out wide and you'll see my point.

Either way, you're getting things mixed up a little.

Nothing much to do with Mikel, but is that really true? I saw the highlights of the world cup final vs Italy, and in the first half he bombed forward ala Ramires, to support the build up play...Of course he had Viera playing with him in the double pivot, but I don't think he always just sat there in front of the defense. He was a lot more mobile than Mikel, with superior work rate.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Weak human being? Based on what? Let's completely forget that Mikel STILL played for us whilst his father got abducted in Nigeria. Weak human being my ass.

A fair point, but he's not the type of guy I want in that position. Maybe I was a little unfair on him, but to me he isn't a leader of men. He isn't that big presence that you need in the centre of the park. I have to keep reminding myself that he's almost 26 and that he will have played about 250 games for the first-team, because he still reminds me of a kid sometimes.

Our success in recent years came on the back of men....leaders. Now we're reaching a point where he needs to step up and I simply don't think he does.

I've never known a Chelsea player so divide fans (apart from Torres maybe, although most people were on the same page with him). To my mind, he's not good enough to be one of the main men in the team.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Our success in recent years came on the back of men....leaders

Mikel has been vital for every success we've had since 2008, especially the double under Scolari and the CL and FA cup last year. You can't deny that. Didier, Frank and JT got the headlines, but we couldn't have done it without Mikel either.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Mikel has been vital for every success we've had since 2008, especially the double under Scolari and the CL and FA cup last year. You can't deny that. Didier, Frank and JT got the headlines, but we couldn't have done it without Mikel either.

Mikel played about as many games under Ancelotti in 2010 as Kalou did, didn't he?

Do you have any idea why he's so divisive amongst the fans?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Mikel played about as many games under Ancelotti in 2010 as Kalou did, didn't he?

Mikel was immense under Carlo especially against what was then known as "the big 4". The game against Arsenal at the Emirates was his best game in a Chelsea shirt, imo, bar the CL final.

Do you have any idea why he's so divisive amongst the fans?

That has largely to do with his position. Name almost any pure DM and you'll split this forum in half. For example, Tiote, who is apparently "BOSS" and a "beast in FIFA" is no more than an average player to me; same goes for Diame (not a pure DM though). Heck, I even remember Makelele, who to me is one of the best DMs in history, had a large number of critics when he played here and was accused by some of slowing down our midfield.

The concept of a DM is not exciting to the majority of football fans. They like to see someone either making tackles and interceptions or scoring goals and assisting. But very few realize that, in midfield, containing the opposition and closing passing angles on defense and keeping possession and having more than 90% passing percentage on the offense is just as important.

[The only place to be 11,313]

That has largely to do with his position. Name almost any pure DM and you'll split this forum in half.

Claude Makelele. Adored by every Chelsea fan, missed by them too.

The concept of a DM is not exciting to the majority of football fans. They like to see someone either making tackles and interceptions or scoring goals and assisting. But very few realize that, in midfield, containing the opposition and closing passing angles on defense and keeping possession and having more than 90% passing percentage on the offense is just as important.

Ah, the 'football fans just don't understand him' argument. Two words, Claude Makelele.

Could it just be that Chelsea fans have been well educated on what a DM is supposed to do (we also got to see Deschamps up close and personal) and Mikel simply doesn't come up to our high standards? Could it be we're not dumb and that we do in fact know what DMs are supposed to do and no amount of stat-wanking will change that?

[Spike 12,049]

Nothing much to do with Mikel, but is that really true? I saw the highlights of the world cup final vs Italy, and in the first half he bombed forward ala Ramires, to support the build up play...Of course he had Viera playing with him in the double pivot, but I don't think he always just sat there in front of the defense. He was a lot more mobile than Mikel, with superior work rate.

Yeah, but that's only one game isn't it? He was probably given more freedom to go fowards when playing for France compared to when he was playing for Chelsea. I do agree that he is much more mobile that Mikel, but I thinks that more due to his size and body shape. He is much smaller and thinner than Mikel so I guess that loans itself to speed and agility. Not a decisive factor of course but influential.

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

Funny how he gets criticised sometimes but when he is gone for a shot or long period we realise how important he actually is to this Chelsea team. His qualities are unnoticed when he plays by some but when he is not we lack a presence for someone in that DM role that he provides. We are much more vulnerable without him and I can't wait to have him back in the starting 11. One of the most important, unsung heroes here.

You are mistaken. People don't miss Mikel but rather having a proper DM in the squad. He's only important (ish) because we have no one else.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Claude Makelele. Adored by every Chelsea fan, missed by them too.

Ah, the 'football fans just don't understand him' argument. Two words, Claude Makelele.

Could it just be that Chelsea fans have been well educated on what a DM is supposed to do (we also got to see Deschamps up close and personal) and Mikel simply doesn't come up to our high standards? Could it be we're not dumb and that we do in fact know what DMs are supposed to do and no amount of stat-wanking will change that?

Maka had his critics when he played here. Only after he left was he adored by every Chelsea fan.

Of course Mikel does not measure up to Makalele or Deschampe, but who in currently in the world does? That's like saying JT is shit because he is no where near Nesta or Beckenbauer.

I can debate Mikel's role and qualities as long as you want, but your hate for Mikel seems to be personal as you showed above by calling him a "weak human being" despite not knowing him personally.

And just for the record, what is wrong with statistics to back up an opinion? And I'm not aiming this at you, I've seen this comment a few times. Have we really reached a point where sarcasm and discrediting and disrespecting other's opinions are more welcomed into an argument than facts, logic and statistics? You have every right to criticize a certain statistic and explain why it is deceiving or does not tell the whole story but to discredit all statistics tells me more about you finding your own opinion not convincing and therefore having to discredit the others' opinions.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Maka had his critics when he played here. Only after he left was he adored by every Chelsea fan.

Bull, and indeed shit. I never heard a single worg against him. Everyone I knew said he was underrated, when I think looking back that shows how valued he was. Just look at the Charlton game in 2005, where everyone loved the fact that he scored. We wanted him to score because we thought he deserved his name in lights for the season he had.

If Mikel doesn't score again I don't think many people would care.

Of course Mikel does not measure up to Makalele or Deschampe, but who in currently in the world does? That's like saying JT is shit because he is no where near Nesta or Beckenbauer.

So because there's a death of quality DMs, we should lower our standards? Plus JT stacks up very well against players like Bobby Moore in my opinion. He's not really the same type of player as Beckenbauer and he's better than Nesta in my opinion.

I can debate Mikel's role and qualities as long as you want, but your hate for Mikel seems to be personal as you showed above by calling him a "weak human being" despite not knowing him personally.

I don't hate him. I just wish he was better.

And how do you know I don't know him personally? How do you know I don't know people who know him? How do you know I don't know people who have coached him since the time he arrived in this country?

And just for the record, what is wrong with statistics to back up an opinion? And I'm not aiming this at you, I've seen this comment a few times. Have we really reached a point where sarcasm and discrediting and disrespecting other's opinions are more welcomed into an argument than facts, logic and statistics? You have every right to criticize a certain statistic and explain why it is deceiving or does not tell the whole story but to discredit all statistics tells me more about you finding your own opinion not convincing and therefore having to discredit the others' opinions.

Nothing wrong with statistics backing up an opinion, but it's when there's nothing but statistics without proper interpretation that it becomes meaningless. There are certain posters who seem to watch games entirely through the prism of stats and 'whoscored.com' rather than watching the matches themselves.

Like I said, I've never known of a player who so divides intelligent, thoughtful football fans like Mikel. I don't hate him and I don't think he's a rubbish player. I just don't think he's that great. There's nothing wrong with being an above-average player, but I don't think he's good enough to be a key player on this team. In fact I don't know if any other top club would conceivably bid for him. I've never heard of any other club being interested in him in fact.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Bull, and indeed shit. I never heard a single worg against him. Everyone I knew said he was underrated,

Just because you didn't know anyone, doesn't mean they didn't exist. I've heard quite a few people criticize him when he was here.

So because there's a death of quality DMs, we should lower our standards? Plus JT stacks up very well against players like Bobby Moore in my opinion. He's not really the same type of player as Beckenbauer and he's better than Nesta in my opinion.

My point (that you of course disagree with) Mikel is among the better DMs in the world now. He's no Makalele, but he's very good.

On a side note, JT better than Nesta? Seriously? John is my favorite current Chelsea player, but even I don't overrate this much.

And how do you know I don't know him personally? How do you know I don't know people who know him? How do you know I don't know people who have coached him since the time he arrived in this country?

Well do you know him personally? And I don't mean know someone who has met him or coached him. If so I apologize.

Nothing wrong with statistics backing up an opinion, but it's when there's nothing but statistics without proper interpretation that it becomes meaningless. There are certain posters who seem to watch games entirely through the prism of stats and 'whoscored.com' rather than watching the matches themselves.

My post did not contain any statistic and yet you felt the need attack all the use of statistics. If you believe your opinion is 100% logical, why so defensive and insecure?

This argument is just goes in circles and is unlikely to change anyone's mind. So I suggest we leave it at this. I know you'll reply because you seem to always want to have the last say ( kinda like my ex ) but I won't reply back.