Super Frank Thread

[Jase 43,479]

19 minutes ago, Ryan Fong said:

No one had a problem with this before kick off though, even on the ever tough love TC. So what would you do? Werner up front and CHO on the wing? Again, no one thought CHO deserves to start after the Barnsley game.

Personally, I was skeptical because there is a reason why Abraham is no longer starting on a regular basis and there is a reason why we went out to buy someone like Werner. But Abraham was rewarded with a place in the starting XI just because he did well against a lower league opposition in a League Cup game and because of his apparent connection with Havertz. Can you imagine if we had rewarded Batshuayi with a place in the starting XI in the past because he did well in the cup games? Although Abraham did well to score the equalizer, he contributed little elsewhere and Lampard starting him also seemed to have a detrimental effect on Werner because he was operating in areas where he couldn't do what he was ultimately bought for - to score goals. He was playing on the LW, RW, dropping deep in central areas to pick up the ball etc. Not where we want him to be, not what we want him to do.

Anyway the main point is, Lampard needs to have a clear idea on his attacking plan and stick with it. It might not be perfect to begin with, but stick with it and work on it. It's sure much better than constantly changing it every single time, especially with little time to even practice it between games this season. We have played 3 league games this season and the attacking front 3/4 has been different in each of them. How can we expect any sort of understanding, consistency or chemistry if we are gonna be chopping and changing so much? Abraham starting yesterday was a clearly reactionary to what he did with Havertz against Barnsley because if Lampard had planned for that, Abraham wouldn't have started on the bench for the first two games. You might not agree but this is why I - and maybe some others - have concerns over whether Lampard knows what to do with all these attacking options and this is without Pulisic and Ziyech by the way. 

[communicate 2,703]

28 minutes ago, Jason said:

Indeed...as seen as by his Abraham selection and his "Oh, Abraham & Havertz had good connection last game, let's try to build on it" thought out of nowhere. 

Who can predict that it doesn't work as well against WBA. 😏😏

I personally will give lamp about 10 games due to no pre season to find a kinda default system and give our player more familiarity with one another. 

I thought it will be 4231 but we kinda need a designated holder aka Kante and pray that he stay healthy, if he has injury riddled season, we are absolutely f***

[Strike 7,217]

Yes, we have to acknowledge that the first three shots from WBA went in and two of them were casual turnovers and one was a setpiece.

The issue is going forward against low-blocks. Three goals scored but so many attacks eventually turned to Reece James crossing. There's no midfield player confident enough to ping the ball down the middle and try to pick the lock. One of the few times they played down the middle was the Havertz pass to CHO for the second goal.

 

[Ryan Fong 2,776]

Personally, I was skeptical because there is a reason why Abraham is no longer starting on a regular basis and there is a reason why we went out to buy someone like Werner. But Abraham was rewarded with a place in the starting XI just because he did well against a lower league opposition in a League Cup game and because of his apparent connection with Havertz. Can you imagine if we had rewarded Batshuayi with a place in the starting XI in the past because he did well in the cup games? Although Abraham did well to score the equalizer, he contributed little elsewhere and Lampard starting him also seemed to have a detrimental effect on Werner because he was operating in areas where he couldn't do what he was ultimately bought for - to score goals. He was playing on the LW, RW, dropping deep in central areas to pick up the ball etc. Not where we want him to be, not what we want him to do.
Anyway the main point is, Lampard needs to have a clear idea on his attacking plan and stick with it. It might not be perfect to begin with, but stick with it and work on it. It's sure much better than constantly changing it every single time, especially with little time to even practice it between games this season. We have played 3 league games this season and the attacking front 3/4 has been different in each of them. How can we expect any sort of understanding, consistency or chemistry if we are gonna be chopping and changing so much? Abraham starting yesterday was a clearly reactionary to what he did with Havertz against Barnsley because if Lampard had planned for that, Abraham wouldn't have started on the bench for the first two games. You might not agree but this is why I - and maybe some others - have concerns over whether Lampard knows what to do with all these attacking options and this is without Pulisic and Ziyech by the way. 

Against Barnsley Tammy was great and CHO was shit, giving Pulisic and Ziyech were not available, it’s nowhere near reactionary to start Tammy yesterday.

[Jase 43,479]

12 minutes ago, Ryan Fong said:

Against Barnsley Tammy was great and CHO was shit, giving Pulisic and Ziyech were not available, it’s nowhere near reactionary to start Tammy yesterday.

It was because of the supposed connection that Havertz-Abraham had against Barnsley. Lampard admitted it as much pre-match yesterday. 

[Ryan Fong 2,776]

It was because of the supposed connection that Havertz-Abraham had against Barnsley. Lampard admitted it as much pre-match yesterday. 

Right, nothing to do with CHO was shit and Pulisic is not available. Curious what’s your suggested lineup?

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Ryan Fong said:

Right, nothing to do with CHO was shit and Pulisic is not available. 

What is your justification on why Abraham did not play the first 2 games then? Pulisic wasn't available. CHO was doing nothing. Yet, Abraham did not start against Brighton or Liverpool.

2 minutes ago, Ryan Fong said:

Curious what’s your suggested lineup?

Werner

Mount---Havertz---CHO

Yes, CHO hasn't been great but since he's our only winger available, I would have played him for that, to stretch play and provide the width because neither of those were coming from Werner and Mount out wide (pretend to be shocked). Everything was narrow and easy to defend for West Brom's back 3/5.

[Ryan Fong 2,776]

Werner
Mount---Havertz---CHO
Yes, CHO hasn't been great but since he's our only winger available, I would have played him for that, to stretch play and provide the width because neither of those were coming from Werner and Mount out wide (pretend to be shocked). Everything was narrow and easy to defend for West Brom's back 3/5.

CHO has played literally 10 mins in the first two games and what’s your justification to start him? “Hasn’t been great” is an understatement admit it or not, he was appalling. Emerson did a much better job on the wing against Barnsley was pretty telling. Being the only winger available doesn’t give him the free pass in my book.

[Jase 43,479]

10 minutes ago, Ryan Fong said:

CHO has played literally 10 mins in the first two games and what’s your justification to start him? “Hasn’t been great” is an understatement admit it or not, he was appalling. Emerson did a much better job on the wing against Barnsley was pretty telling. Being the only winger available doesn’t give him the free pass in my book.

But the lineup that wasn't eventually put out didn't do too greatly, did it? And who helped changed the game after coming on? CHO. He gave us the width that we were sorely lacking.

CHO hasn't been great but he is nowhere near say Torres-level disaster to be just ignored completely. It's about giving confidence and trust to the players to go out there and do the job. 

[Ryan Fong 2,776]

But the lineup that wasn't eventually put out didn't do too greatly, did it? And who helped changed the game after coming on? CHO. He gave us the width that we were sorely lacking.
CHO hasn't been great but he is nowhere near say Torres-level disaster to be just ignored completely. It's about giving confidence and trust to the players to go out there and do the job. 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Moreover, CHO helped partially with a goal, other than that I think he’s just ok-ish. It’s Mount who changed the game.

“It’s about giving confidence and trust to the players to go out there and do the job”, doesn’t apply to Abraham? [emoji2371]

I’m not saying Lampard has no faults, far from it. Alonso shouldn’t start, but even that’s kinda arguable because Emerson is equally shit and Azpi is right-footed. Giroud’s sub was bizarre, he should either replace Abraham like for like with Giroud or put Barkley on or don’t change at all.

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Ryan Fong said:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Moreover, CHO helped partially with a goal, other than that I think he’s just ok-ish. It’s Mount who changed the game.

Funnily enough, I thought Mount was just OK-ish despite his goal. Did little otherwise. CHO helped create the last 2 goals by the way. The equalizer came from his cross around the D area.

2 minutes ago, Ryan Fong said:

“It’s about giving confidence and trust to the players to go out there and do the job”, doesn’t apply to Abraham?

Yes but I've said what I said above about why Abraham shouldn't have started just because of one good match against a lower league opposition.

It's obvious you don't agree. So, let's just agree to disagree.

[Special Juan 27,424]

For me the selection was one of FL keeping players sweet again.

We are going to have this all season long I'm afraid

[Jype 6,398]

42 minutes ago, Jason said:

Funnily enough, I thought Mount was just OK-ish despite his goal. Did little otherwise. CHO helped create the last 2 goals by the way. The equalizer came from his cross around the D area.

Just ok-ish? If that's not a great overall performance, why don't you tell us what he needs to do for you to admit he's done well? 

In WhoScored metrics, Mount scored an 8.52 rating yesterday. Second highest in the Chelsea team was CHO at 7.56 and from those who played the full 90 mins Havertz came closest at 7.37. That's not only because Mount scored a goal, he played well otherwise too. It helped him to move more centrally after CHO came on and the formation changed but even in the first half Mount created that one great chance for Werner which he then shot into the crossbar.

Either way, CHO did really well too and his performance yesterday certainly didn't hurt his chances of playing more. He should start on Tuesday against Spurs to build up his match sharpness and form.

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, Jype said:

Just ok-ish? If that's not a great overall performance, why don't you tell us what he needs to do for you to admit he's done well? 

In WhoScored metrics, Mount scored an 8.52 rating yesterday. Second highest in the Chelsea team was CHO at 7.56 and from those who played the full 90 mins Havertz came closest at 7.37. That's not only because Mount scored a goal, he played well otherwise too. It helped him to move more centrally after CHO came on and the formation changed but even in the first half Mount created that one great chance for Werner which he then shot into the crossbar.

Either way, CHO did really well too and his performance yesterday certainly didn't hurt his chances of playing more. He should start on Tuesday against Spurs to build up his match sharpness and from.

Since when stats tell the whole story?

And is there any point in me to start talking about Mount here? If I say A, you guys will just say B and we'll end up just going in circles. 

In any case, I have far bigger concerns from yesterday's game than Mount's performance. 

[killer1257 3,282]

It amazes me everytime. Tammy saves our asses yesterday last minute together with other youth players and all I read is how bad Tammy is. Werner played two games as a striker and scored no goals and Tammy played two matches and scored two. That is why Tammy will get more matches.


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[Magic Lamps 11,653]

14 hours ago, killer1257 said:

It amazes me everytime. Tammy saves our asses yesterday last minute together with other youth players and all I read is how bad Tammy is. Werner played two games as a striker and scored no goals and Tammy played two matches and scored two. That is why Tammy will get more matches.


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Tbf tammy missed a ton of easy chances like he always does. Pretty sure Werner will start more matches , simply bc if the price tag. 
 

On a Different. Note, read a completely different ridiculous ‚analysis‘ from sky that pins our problems to our best defender Rüdiger being frozen out and our Defence was slow with esp Christensen lacking pace. I mean honestly how stupid can journalists be?

[killer1257 3,282]

Tbf tammy missed a ton of easy chances like he always does. Pretty sure Werner will start more matches , simply bc if the price tag. 
 
On a Different. Note, read a completely different ridiculous ‚analysis‘ from sky that pins our problems to our best defender Rüdiger being frozen out and our Defeemce was so Christensen lacking pace. I mean honestly how stupid can journalists be?

Yes, he missed chances, but people exxagerate all the time. Nobody talks about Ronaldo needing to shoot 7 times in a match to score a goal (prime CR7). Nobody talks about Messi, who is the goat, needing 6 shots to score a goal. Yes, there guys like Icardi, who only need three shots to score a goal, but not every player has Icardi shot conversarion rate. And Lewandowski, who is now considered to the best striker in the world, is completely horrible at converting shots into goals. There is a reason why he even missed the most chances in Bundesliga.

Yes, I really do not get what Sky and sometimes DAZN experts are talking about. The funniest thing was that in Caraboa Cup, the commentator called Barkley a "legend" [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]. WTF. Legend in the club/party scene maybe, but on the pitch lol.

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[Unionjack 7,531]

We will get at some time this season a knee jerk slagging off of each of Werner/Kai/Ziyech. They take/create so many chances some go wildly wrong. It took eack of their dans time to realize that the pluses far outweighed the minuses.

What Im waiting for is Mount to break or get run into the ground thru playing so much. Because Mount is ok fresh but not when hes tired.