Jorginho

[coolhead23 1,146]

2 minutes ago, Robchels said:

Disagree. I mean he’d need protection in any other system than the one we try to implement.

passing is as much about movement of your teammates as it is about the passing ability of a given player, and make no mistake Jorginho is a great passer.

he’s far more easily pressed at Chelsea than he’d be at city. At city he’d have a lot more options for passing and they don’t chase players as much as we do.

while we try to rely on possession for defending, city actually does that. When they don’t have the football every player (even aguero) swarms the opposition to regain it. They still struggle without it and are vulnerable to a direct style... classic paper scissors.

Thats why I said he needs protection in any team in the PL. 

But at the same time the team dynamics can be exploited if you identified the weak link ... yes he can really pass the ball but when if you crowd out your main passer and keep pressing him you're putting a lot of pressure on the supply line. If your passer is strong and can hold ground, the threat is reduced considerable but if someone like a Jorginho is pressed he just runs out of idea. Thats why I mention for me he is a weak link whether our team or anyone else specially in the PL. 

[Clockwork 1,794]

14 hours ago, Robchels said:

Disagree. I mean he’d need protection in any other system than the one we try to implement.

passing is as much about movement of your teammates as it is about the passing ability of a given player, and make no mistake Jorginho is a great passer.

he’s far more easily pressed at Chelsea than he’d be at city. At city he’d have a lot more options for passing and they don’t chase players as much as we do.

while we try to rely on possession for defending, city actually does that. When they don’t have the football every player (even aguero) swarms the opposition to regain it. They still struggle without it and are vulnerable to a direct style... classic paper scissors.

Also another big factor imo, is City is actually really good in attack while we are setup for attacking style but we are failing in that department. In this type of style your best defense is your offense, teams are scared to attack City and for good reasons they are the best goal scoring side in the league and arguably the best in all of Europe. On the other hand we are the worst side in goals forced in the top 6. Teams are much more willing and aggressive in facing us, the majority of teams do not respect our attack. It is a terrible combo to play open while struggling to score goals. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,296]

It's just overall intelligence off the ball that separates us from City. That and the obvious lack in quality. 

[Thor 2,392]

Everyone raved and ranted about him before we got him, but now suddenly he isn't good enough? 

 

I'm never generally a fan of these types of players, but what has changed for those of you that were such massive fans? 

I genuinely think Kovacic who has been quite poor this season would fit that role quite well. He is so much more dynamic, and for what he lacks in finishing, he is a very good passer from the back, and can drive the ball up, which Jorgi can't. I've never understood buying this specialist type players. Players need to be dynamic and malleable, and generally good athletes to create a team that can move well going forward. Jorgi is small, lightweight, and isn't particularly quick.  

[Magic Lamps 11,653]

34 minutes ago, Thor said:

Everyone raved and ranted about him before we got him, but now suddenly he isn't good enough? 

 

I'm never generally a fan of these types of players, but what has changed for those of you that were such massive fans? 

I genuinely think Kovacic who has been quite poor this season would fit that role quite well. He is so much more dynamic, and for what he lacks in finishing, he is a very good passer from the back, and can drive the ball up, which Jorgi can't. I've never understood buying this specialist type players. Players need to be dynamic and malleable, and generally good athletes to create a team that can move well going forward. Jorgi is small, lightweight, and isn't particularly quick.  

I honstley did bot know him before we bought him.  I liked how he made us click in the first few games but one he got figured he did not jave a solution. The problem with specialist players as you say is thag they are so Limited. Sacrificing a whole starting spot just for someone to control the tempo is a bad deal imo..Kroos at least can shoot and has more accurate long range passing than Joriginho. Ballack could also control the tempo from deep and was a thread from range and a force in the air. Lamparf obviously was a complete playmaker and scored 300 goals on top, Nusquets can defend and read the game like no other. Jorginho can just play short passes at a deliberate pace and mediocre mid range passes and interception ability thats it. Not that he is a bad player. He has put in a lot of hard work in the last few weeks and i can not blame his attitude he seems like a decent bloke but for 65m we could have gotten a true worldclass midfielder, an Allrounder who has passes, tackles, runs and goals in him.

[DDA 9,690]

On 4/10/2019 at 2:14 AM, Clockwork said:

It will be interesting to see if teams will play the diamond formation and man mark Jorginho with RLC and CHO on the team. Because those two create a lot of dilemma if they set up like that. CHO ability to create width really makes it troublesome for teams trying to play narrow. Kovacic and Barkley had incredible amount of space when teams tried to man mark Jorginho, they couldn't capitalize on the oppertunity. RLC is incredibly dangerous when giving space to run into. 

Not as cut and dry anymore for the opposition. Stop Jorginho, stop Chelsea. 

I have been saying this for a loong time. Create width when teams set up narrowly to prevent Jorginho playing through the lines. It was as obvious as milk is white. With Pedro and Willian the width isn't constant as both drift inside. Odoi hugs the line and stays a constant danger like Sane does for City.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Get this man out of the club now. 

Strength of a kid. Completely useless in creating any sort of chances. Luiz long passing is miles better. Cant defend because everytime he tries to shield the ball, he just gets bullied. 

Anyone saw the two situations today? For the second goal, he just fucking stood there and watch how Barnes got to the ball and shot. Run you mong.

Then in the second half he proceeds to present his amazing and smart, reliable passing again when he passes backwards straight to Wood who went 1v1 with Kepa but fortunely got brainfart in that moment.

Third one has to be that atempt of a long pass to Higuain. Completely overpowered and inacurrate. Does that almost every match.

How can anyone defend this dude when he is such a frickin liability?

He wont flourish with better players because the league is simply too much for him. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Another game where he does absolutely fuck all, but we are all too stupid to realise how vital he is for this team, right?

Him and Kovacic are the worst midfield combo I have seen in a long time. Slow, cant create shit, concede tons of goals and any time someone presses us, they get bullied andt are unable to dictate our play at all.

[Laylabelle 9,351]

But still gets played!! 

[Special Juan 27,424]

Fucking rubbish, offers nothing in terms of goals, his assists have dried and up and has strength of a new born baby.

Fucking crap.

[Vytis33 1,144]

Why couldn't Cesc play in this role?  Physical attributes roughly the same and one has a significantly better end product. 

[Henrique 9,133]

I won't take it seriously any list of worst transfers of the PL season that don't include Jorginho. For me he is easily the worst signing of the season in the entire PL.

[Special Juan 27,424]

Yep, I think he's been truly terrible.

[Stats 7,053]

How opinions from fans change, wow. I remember early stages of the season, when Stewart Robson criticized the transfer and said he did not thought Jorginho had the qualities to be a DM. The amount of fans who was slating Robson, stating that he has no clue etc,. It just shows how fans are very quick to change opinion. Who would have thought few months down the line, fans would be stating Robson was proved right...

[Arlen Correa 161]

I'll not defend the player, i don't think its worth to play Kante out of position but lets talk about modern football. People should stop talking about "end product" here. Its just silly. Its not 4-4-2. Busquets scored a total of ZERO goals in La Liga this season. Fernandinho scored 1 in the PL. Casemiro scored 3(sometimes he got luck with a long range or a head).

"End product" its not relevant to analize a player in his position. Its much more important the fact he is easily bullied, is slow and can't cover for the mistakes when the team lose the ball.

 

[manpe 10,861]

On 30/04/2019 at 3:51 AM, Stats said:

How opinions from fans change, wow. I remember early stages of the season, when Stewart Robson criticized the transfer and said he did not thought Jorginho had the qualities to be a DM. The amount of fans who was slating Robson, stating that he has no clue etc,. It just shows how fans are very quick to change opinion. Who would have thought few months down the line, fans would be stating Robson was proved right...

Opinions change after more information. Jorginho was class in Serie A, had great reputation, good skills in FM and FIFA (I presume, I don't play them), was wanted by Guardiola and Sarri, and cost a lot of money. It was a positive preconception after our last season's failures, so a player of that background was literally seen as a saviour from several levels above anything we had. Now that he hasn't lived up to expectations in games we have all watched and scrutinized, opinions have changed. It's nothing out of the ordinary, nothing wrong with that. Things change.

[Stats 7,053]

49 minutes ago, manpe said:

Opinions change after more information. Jorginho was class in Serie A, had great reputation, good skills in FM and FIFA (I presume, I don't play them), was wanted by Guardiola and Sarri, and cost a lot of money. It was a positive preconception after our last season's failures, so a player of that background was literally seen as a saviour from several levels above anything we had. Now that he hasn't lived up to expectations in games we have all watched and scrutinized, opinions have changed. It's nothing out of the ordinary, nothing wrong with that. Things change.

I am not denying that. It is just that people had already made their mind up after 1 month that he was a top signing and Robson was a madman. Few months down the line, I am just pointing out the big difference in opinion. I think he is a good player. In City he would look quality but he is being exposed right now. And if I am being honest, I do find fans on here very knee-jerk. They change opinions way too quickly. Not defending Jorginho but it is his first season here and it is a new system for the team and a lot of players adjusting to different style of football. But seems majority of people have made their minds up.

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

3 hours ago, Stats said:

I am not denying that. It is just that people had already made their mind up after 1 month that he was a top signing and Robson was a madman. Few months down the line, I am just pointing out the big difference in opinion. I think he is a good player. In City he would look quality but he is being exposed right now. And if I am being honest, I do find fans on here very knee-jerk. They change opinions way too quickly. Not defending Jorginho but it is his first season here and it is a new system for the team and a lot of players adjusting to different style of football. But seems majority of people have made their minds up.

If he bounces back next season and plays well their opinions aill change again. Seen it with Drogba before poor first season before rapidly improving in the following seasons. Think hes a very good player and I doubt a coach like Guardiola gushing about him after Napoli played them in the CL last season and desperately wanting to sign him in the summer can justify him being a very bad player. Considering the fact Peps worked with players like Busquets, Xavi Alonso, Fernandinho who play in that role. But until Jorginho plays consistently well here there will always be scrutiny, although adapting to a faster paced league for a player with physical limitations wasnt gonna be straight forward. I think next season he will be a lot better.