The Mourinho Thread

[Tomo 21,685]

Fergie isn't exactly known for his brilliant offensive philosophy is he? If he is, I'd seriously disagree. I always though his Utd team were just like Mourinho's.

Not all. And I personally don't have anything against defensive football. Counter-attacking football can be absolutely brilliant to watch. But it's performances like the one I saw yesterday that I will never agree with. That's too much for me.

Fair enough and I can't say I enjoy it but can understand it, well if not all most. Fergie, Rafa, Carlo, Wenger pre 2005 I could think of a page full of games those lot played similar tactics to us yesterday in PL games alone if I racked my brains together, I have already given some examples above.

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

We don't criticize Mourinho for having a cautious approach when we have 5 points on City and play at their ground. IMO our defensive tactics were excellent. The defensive runs of our players were damn efficient. For the major part of the game we made them work extremely hard for a few corners.

But after we got our lead, we should have played to our strengths. without Willian and RAmires we were defensively more vulnerable and should have pressed City. Their patchwork defense wihtout fullbacks, agüero and yaya running out of steam.

WE could have also tried to undo them on the break and committing bodies to City's vulnerable flanks. Though Mourinho subbed on Drogba who he cringeworthly still clinges to, instead of Remy, who would have offered the pace required to kill the game off.

But we let City dominate us with schürrle marking Silva.So the equalizer was always gonna happen. Even after that we did not even try to score again. When we got the ball we simply passed it in our own half, even in the 94th minute when there was no chance City would have another chance, we refused to attack. This is what I don't understand.

After we lead, we did try to score the 2nd goal while defending well, see Costa chance.

After they equalized, their spirit are in sky high and it is just under 6-7 minutes normal time, if we go all out, there is a massive risk, they will score the 2nd goal on a counter, the reasonable objective for us that time is to defend the 'draw' and secure the point.

[MrBlueGuy 1,552]

Fair enough and I can't say I enjoy it but can understand it, well if not all most. Fergie, Rafa, Carlo, Wenger pre 2005 I could think of a page full of games those lot played similar tactics to us yesterday in PL games alone if I racked my brains together, I have already given some examples above.

We never did full bus parking under Carlo, evident for example by that title decider in Old Trafford 2011 where we lost after going 2 down in the 1st half. The only time we have been doing extreme bus parking is under Robbie at Barca/Bayern in 2012 CL but that was understandable. Now however it is not alright, I mean the only way you can improve this squad is probably by signing Robben/Messi/CR7/Vidal...etc and yet Jose still insists on that small team tactic. I mean Stoke with Diouf and Crouch doing this is understandable but a team of Hazard, Fabregas, Costa, Matic...etc doing it is unacceptable really.

I hope Jose learns from this and take the initiative next time a similar type of situation occur, but knowing him and considering he was 'very, very happy' with the performance it will be the same again. If we draw Juve/Atletico/Barca/Bayern/Real/Dortmund or any team that is considered top 10 he will employ this tactic again in the knock out of CL while in theory it should only be used in the case of Real/Barca and Bayern.

[Tomo 21,685]

We never did full bus parking under Carlo, evident for example by that title decider in Old Trafford 2011 where we lost after going 2 down in the 1st half. The only time we have been doing extreme bus parking is under Robbie at Barca/Bayern in 2012 CL but that was understandable. Now however it is not alright, I mean the only way you can improve this squad is probably by signing Robben/Messi/CR7/Vidal...etc and yet Jose still insists on that small team tactic. I mean Stoke with Diouf and Crouch doing this is understandable but a team of Hazard, Fabregas, Costa, Matic...etc doing it is unacceptable really.

I hope Jose learns from this and take the initiative next time a similar type of situation occur, but knowing him and considering he was 'very, very happy' with the performance it will be the same again. If we draw Juve/Atletico/Barca/Bayern/Real/Dortmund or any team that is considered top 10 he will employ this tactic again in the knock out of CL while in theory it should only be used in the case of Real/Barca and Bayern.

We did at The Ethiad in his second season, we even did it at home vs Arsenal when Didier got two, under Rafa we "parked the bus" (I hate that phrase) at Eastlands aswell as the home game vs City the game at Anfield also. It's a legitimate tactic that a lot of managers use and will continue to especially away to title rivals.

[Fernando 6,387]

cos this is the real world. its not FIFA.

cos city are the defending champions and have a better squad. cos they are already 5 points behind with catching up to do. the onus was on them, not us.

how can some be so naive.

I think our attack are on par, it's very even in that respect.

The one where they beat us is defense.

With the exception of fullbacks I would take Kompany and Mangala any day of the week to what we have.

Terry is close to retirement and Cahill.....

I'm still surprised that Mourinho didn't brought another good CB after gettind rid of David Luiz.

Oh well, we do with what we have.

[Styles 9,790]

It wasn't nice but we were heading to the home of the mist in form team in Europe and had half a team out, if we tried to fight fire with fire we would have had our backsides tanned and quite frankly we would deserved it.

Fair enough and last season that was true, we just weren't good enough to be more open. But I believe we'd go and do the same again this year unfortunately.

[kellzfresh 7,226]

I think our attack are on par, it's very even in that respect.

The one where they beat us is defense.

With the exception of fullbacks I would take Kompany and Mangala any day of the week to what we have.

Terry is close to retirement and Cahill.....

I'm still surprised that Mourinho didn't brought another good CB after gettind rid of David Luiz.

Oh well, we do with what we have.

Exactly, their CB's were fast enough to catch our attacks on the counter. That's why they are comfortable attacking for long periods, just see how quickly mangala sprinted to take the ball off costa and kompany off hazard. Terry and cahill will be skinned alive if they faced a hazard and Costa on the counter because they are sloooooowww. So we have to protect the defense so they don't get isolated against a fast attack.

Mourinho will fix this in January, I'm sure

[Barbara 15,149]

You're usually spot on, but even you are letting your love for the club and Mou dictate your response.

They had 10 men... Sure we are shaky currently, but as a shaky defense, you don't give the other team the ball and allow them to dictate where it goes on the pitch with one man less. No one asked us to be super attacking with 1-0 up. Just to hold the ball and let the game form organically, and not sit back in a shell.

Costa did not struggle one bit on the pitch. He was no where to be seen because we attacked with 3 or 4 players max. Anyone notice as soon as Zabaleta went off he somehow magically was causing havoc all of a sudden and looking like his general beasty self? Reason? Because the rest of the team actually pushed forward and gave him something to work with, and he made them look very shaky. As soon as we scored though, it didn't take long for the team to go back into their shell again, and he became ineffective once more. No one up front helping him try to attack, or even giving him options to hold the ball and pass it around.

Yeah, we are top of the table. Yeah, we are five matches in. Yeah we have the best attack. But to sit here and pretend like we don't get to be outraged by the way we played and that we should be happy with one point? That's rich. We could be playing the world 11 for all I care, I expect to be better with 11 on the pitch compared to their 10. That's all anyone is saying. No one would be complaining if they had 11 on there, and we sat back, and allowed a goal. The fact is, they made us look terrible, with just 10 on the field.

There are all kind of reactions in the thread. Polarized positive, polarized negative and middle ground. Maybe I do sound in the polarized positive, but I'm actually looking at the positives and accepting the negatives. I said somewhere else that I expected us to do better when they were down to 10 men, but they were still a big team and sometimes they run the extra mile. It isn't as easy as it is on paper to dominate a team just because we have one more man in the pitch.

Mourinho was labeled a few things here, the moaning is constant and sometimes extreme, if it's not about the defense, it is about the attack and those demanding balance should give time for it to happen. Maybe I'm too complacent with this, but in the big scenario of things, that's not a match I think will tell the story of our season. I'll definitely have a problem if, for example, in February, March when we play UCL playoffs, the team continues to take this coward approach. We're a big team and we should play as such, even when our opponents may be better than us or have the home advantage, but right now, in this new style, while the team is still making adjustments, I think it's too much to ask. That's the opinion I've had for weeks. I've had a discussion about it a few weeks ago when people were demanding in our 2nd or 3rd match of the season to show a smooth, silky convincing football. It's not time for that imo, it's time to get the results and keep working on improving the team and making the necessary adjustments so we look better defensively and can carry on polishing the style. I expect us to be an oil machine in a couple of months, but there are some areas I hope to be worked this month already, one of them, our midfield positioning.

And I think Costa struggled with how physical both Mangala and Kompany were. More times than in any other match he lost the ball, possession, fell, asked for a foul the referee didn't call not because he was isolated, but because he couldn't get rid of either of them. He was rarely double marked at those moments. I felt he struggled to win the personal duels with both of them, but maybe it was only me.

[Tomo 21,685]

Fair enough and last season that was true, we just weren't good enough to be more open. But I believe we'd go and do the same again this year unfortunately.

For me it depends on the oppo and the circumstance, yesterday was understandable because our defence has been shaky so far and if we expose them it would have been a long day.

Against Arsenal we should press them high because they simply cannot cope with it, against Madrid we should sit back and counter when we can.

[ballackstothat 43]

We never did full bus parking under Carlo, evident for example by that title decider in Old Trafford 2011 where we lost after going 2 down in the 1st half. The only time we have been doing extreme bus parking is under Robbie at Barca/Bayern in 2012 CL but that was understandable. Now however it is not alright, I mean the only way you can improve this squad is probably by signing Robben/Messi/CR7/Vidal...etc and yet Jose still insists on that small team tactic. I mean Stoke with Diouf and Crouch doing this is understandable but a team of Hazard, Fabregas, Costa, Matic...etc doing it is unacceptable really.

I hope Jose learns from this and take the initiative next time a similar type of situation occur, but knowing him and considering he was 'very, very happy' with the performance it will be the same again. If we draw Juve/Atletico/Barca/Bayern/Real/Dortmund or any team that is considered top 10 he will employ this tactic again in the knock out of CL while in theory it should only be used in the case of Real/Barca and Bayern.

why would we buy robben when we sold him? one of the worst players in a chelsea shirt ever, lazy, over theatrical, don't like being tackled, and greedy as well

that's why he was sold

[MrBlueGuy 1,552]

why would we buy robben when we sold him? one of the worst players in a chelsea shirt ever, lazy, over theatrical, don't like being tackled, and greedy as well

that's why he was sold

That is not the point, my point is that we can pretty much only improve this squad with top 5 players in the world now in their position because most of our are already top 10, just showing how good of a team we can be. What you think about Robben is your opinion but right now he is considered by pretty much everyone to be top 3 wingers in the world, arguably behind only CR7 atm.

If we can't play dominating football against a top team with a starting 11, when can we? I mean Bayern and Dortmund in 12/13 and 13/14 bossed City at Etihad with players considered at the time much worse than the ones we got. It can be done, but for Jose even with Messi, CR7 and Robben leading the line and Vidal instead of Ramires that tactic would be the same. Which is extremely frustrating as I wish we could ever dominate a game like those German teams did.

For me it depends on the oppo and the circumstance, yesterday was understandable because our defence has been shaky so far and if we expose them it would have been a long day.

Against Arsenal we should press them high because they simply cannot cope with it, against Madrid we should sit back and counter when we can.

Against Dortmund? Sitting back will result in Madrid style 2013 raping.

[ballackstothat 43]

That is not the point, my point is that we can pretty much only improve this squad with top 5 players in the world now in their position because most of our are already top 10, just showing how good of a team we can be. What you think about Robben is your opinion but right now he is considered by pretty much everyone to be top 3 wingers in the world, arguably behind only CR7 atm.

If we can't play dominating football against a top team with a starting 11, when can we? I mean Bayern and Dortmund in 12/13 and 13/14 bossed City at Etihad with players considered at the time much worse than the ones we got. It can be done, but for Jose even with Messi, CR7 and Robben leading the line and Vidal instead of Ramires that tactic would be the same. Which is extremely frustrating as I wish we could ever dominate a game like those German teams did.

Against Dortmund? Sitting back will result in Madrid style 2013 raping.

personally i'd rather jose was pragmatic like he says and come away with a point, how many other teams will do that? stoke do me a favor sparkys attitude was we are not expected to get anything, so just have a go at them. when you have nothing to lose, you lose nothing. and thats what they got and rode their luck. if we'd have lost the gap would 3 not 5, and i am for one happier with a five point, on citeh than 3 at this stage of the season. if you would have asked any chelsea supporter you will have a 5 point gap after 5 games on nearest rivals, they would have taken your hand off i would!

[Viper22 2,418]

Why? We have a great squad, had a very good start of the season. So why go for only ONE point? Why not try to get all the points? I just don't get it. Jose went for one point, but why should we be happy about it and say that "see, he got what he wanted!"? It's bullshit, the same bullshit from last season, when we should've trashed United on their ground, but we struggled for the same old ONE point. Why are we so afraid?

You can't go into every game demanding a win, that's spoiled in the extreme. It was the hardest game of the year for us, away to the champions. We lost there and won there last year once each. We have to afford them some respect. If we'd attacked them believing we could win we may well have won. But more likely we'd have been beaten, maybe badly, and then the whole complexion of the league would change, they'd only be 3 points back and we wouldn't be in as strong a position as we are now. We didn't HAVE to win the game, we just had to not lose the game to keep as ahead of them as we are. We obviously wanted all 3 points or we wouldn't have attacked to score the goal we did and come within a metric Lampard of winning the damn game. But demanding that we go in with the same attitude away to city as we did at home to Swansea (especially when we're leaking goals) is just plain stupid.

Seems like you'd only be happy if we kept our 100% record the whole damn season and maybe for the next 10-15 years. A point at the Etihad is a decent result, and means we're still well on top in the title race at such an early stage.

[kellzfresh 7,226]

You can't go into every game demanding a win, that's spoiled in the extreme. It was the hardest game of the year for us, away to the champions. We lost there and won there last year once each. We have to afford them some respect. If we'd attacked them believing we could win we may well have won. But more likely we'd have been beaten, maybe badly, and then the whole complexion of the league would change, they'd only be 3 points back and we wouldn't be in as strong a position as we are now. We didn't HAVE to win the game, we just had to not lose the game to keep as ahead of them as we are. We obviously wanted all 3 points or we wouldn't have attacked to score the goal we did and come within a metric Lampard of winning the damn game. But demanding that we go in with the same attitude away to city as we did at home to Swansea (especially when we're leaking goals) is just plain stupid.

Seems like you'd only be happy if we kept our 100% record the whole damn season and maybe for the next 10-15 years. A point at the Etihad is a decent result, and means we're still well on top in the title race at such an early stage.

Reasonable realistic post. Missed this on this thread

[lionsden 4,689]

Whichever way you slice it, it's unacceptable for a multimillion pound squad, full of very talented and top class players with big ambition to defend deep and look as shell shocked as we looked especially in the final 12 minutes against 10 men. There's absolutely nothing anyone can say that can justify it. Even if Lampard hadn't found the equaliser, it still wouldn't be acceptable to fold mentality and retreat in our own halves hanging on to their lives, like a small/pub team would do, against 10 men.

I have seen some small teams show better pair of balls against a big team.

[Fernando 6,387]

Whichever way you slice it, it's unacceptable for a multimillion pound squad, full of very talented and top class players with big ambition to defend deep and look as shell shocked as we looked especially in the final 12 minutes against 10 men. There's absolutely nothing anyone can say that can justify it. Even if Lampard hadn't found the equaliser, it still wouldn't be acceptable to fold mentality and retreat in our own halves hanging on to their lives, like a small/pub team would do, against 10 men.

I have seen some small teams show better pair of balls against a big team.

But then a multi million pound team got raped against Leicester for being too attacking.....

And you know why? Because their defense sucks.

Likewise our defense is bad when playing attacking fútbol.

So it's suicidal to do so against your main competitor's

[roba3y 28]

Thanx Jose for making us not satisfied when we didn't win on the Champions ground and just got a draw !
Thanx for getting us back to where we belong.

[lionsden 4,689]

But then a multi million pound team got raped against Leicester for being too attacking.....

And you know why? Because their defense sucks.

Likewise our defense is bad when playing attacking fútbol.

So it's suicidal to do so against your main competitor's

So you want to compare JT, Cahill and Azpilicueta to Utd defenders? Our defence individually and collectively is light years superior to utds and I don't recall Lecicester playing with 10 men. Utd actually had a man sent of which gave Leicester the impetus to chase the lead. How is both situation even comparable at all?

Atleast use a better and more comparable example to make your point or analogy. it's not too much to ask for.