The Mourinho Thread

[Yeboii 1,844]

Just Win the FA Cup, 2nd in league, and Semifinalist in EL should make me satisfied....

Well you have some standards

[Barbara 15,149]

But we are in transition.

we have a new coach. of course we are in transition. look how he tries to change our way of playing. look how mata plays in it. we are definetely in transition. its even hard to believe, that we are only few points of topp without having a world.class DM/Cm and a decent striker.

We won the Champions League all the other titles are minor and a lot less important. And everyone knows how CHelsea won the Champions League... God helped a lot.

There is a difference between Champions League/Premiere League and all the other competitions.

And what really measures the quality of a team in the big football countries is the League. For example Liverpool won the CHampions and at that time Chelsea was by far the best team in the country and maybe in the world. Chelsea won the Champions League and was 6th in the League.

Winning is important, but you can't compare Europa League or a minor cup with the Premiere League.

sometimes I honestly believe people don't actually know the meaning of the word transition. Just because we've been in many transitions recently it doesn't change the fact we're in another one now.

Let's start with the basics then, according dictionary.com

transition

tran·si·tion [tran-zish-uhn, -sish-]

noun

1. movement, passage, or change from one position, state, stage, subject, concept, etc., to another; change: the transition from adolescence to adulthood.

We played one style with each of those managers and now we have a new style under Mourinho. Style and concept (Mourinho often uses the words philosophy and identity) are words close in their meaning. So I don't get why people have such a difficult time accepting we're in transition. Not only we're in Mourinho's transition from whatever you want to call Rafa's system (I call it 'Mata as the center of the universe'), di Matteo's defensive approach, AVB's attack oriented mess, others re-using José's old identity and foundation, but we also have a huge change in the profile of players we now sign. We used to sign guys on their prime or very close to that, now we're signing boys with the eventual clinical experienced signing. It doesn't matter if we keep making our transition endless or having endless transitions because we keep changing managers and because we've been changing the profile we sign in the past two years, we're still in transition. A change doesn't nullify the other.

None of the managers before Mourinho went for his system which consists firstly of a lot of pressing and then a lot of attacking. It isn't necessarily possession, although it can be because we decide when to give the opposition possession and when not (ofc it doesn't work every single time, but that's still the plan). We're solid defensively (again at least in paper) so we're comfortable playing without the ball, although we aren't counter-attack based like Real Madrid. We have more similarities with Mourinho's Inter than Mourinho's RM in that aspect imo, but at the end of the day, his current Chelsea isn't a carbon copy of any of his previous works. It has a lot of aspects from RM and some from Inter and even the solid defensive setup from his first spell, but it still differs from every team he's built before us.

We simply attack, it doesn't matter if it's a counter or if we keep possession and patiently build the attack (although I feel a certain urgency in the team and even when we do have possession we try to make it reach the shooting position faster than others possession-based teams - tiki taka or not). We have attacking players and that's the first place we made sure to load our squad because there's a plan I suppose was made prior to José's arrival (although he certainly made his changes and adjustments, I'm sure of it, but still keeping the main idea).

So the system in order of priority imo is: 1) pressing 2) attacking 3) controlling the possession (ours or the opponent's) 4) defending comfortably and solidly, without parking the bus, but also employing as many players as possible (normally 9 outfield players, releasing one). If there's one thing this team does well is pressing and that's why sometimes we don't mind the opposition having the ball. We just haunt them and they don't know if they're more damned with the ball or without it. It's relentless, tiring and it must be annoying and frustrating as hell for our opponents. We just need to sharpen all of those aspects to become the ultimate threat (I see more evolution in the pressing and in the possession controlling right now. Although we attack well, we still have issues finishing and it's not only our strikers, and our defense has had some uncomfortable and unwelcome blips).

Now how people expect those changes to happen, the players to adapt to the tactics, but also to the manager's way of working (coaching style, drills, training sessions, personality, etc) and also the fact we've been changing the profile of player we sign without it being a transition? It's one thing for Lamps, Terry and Cech to look around and see guys around 25, with considerable experience and nearly (if not already) in their prime joining the squad, playing the same system as before, just making a couple of replacements and it's another thing for them to look around and see a bunch of young players (younger than 22), with not as much experience, mixed with a few slightly more experienced and closer to prime players, and a completely different system from the one(s) they've been playing. It all requires adaptation and everything that requires adaptation in my opinion is by definition a transition. If we keep Mourinho and the new signing philosophy (don't see why we wouldn't), then next season won't be transitional anymore, it'll be time to polish, make adjustments, improve specific problems and areas, clinical signings etc. That's called continuation, improvement and polishing and differs conceptually from transition, but there's no denial we're once again transitioning.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

:clap: @barbara

Exactly. Mourinho changed everything our former managers were doing. We want to be good on the ball and off the ball.

If we get more clinical and cut off set piece mistakes, I see us in the future playing as good as madrid 2012 league winners team or bayern munich of last season.

Constant pressing, speed, dribbling and clinical finishing. We will be so hard to beat in the future it will be unreal.

[Fernando 6,590]

So Barbara what system of a team you think he wants to implement?

You mentioned real Madrid and inter, but to me it looks like he is using dortmund as a template.

And that was my favorite, better then Tiki taka.

That for me was complete futbol, as they can play different system for different opponents.

Not like Barcelona that go shit when they get pressured.

[Mouri_Matic 560]

So Barbara what system of a team you think he wants to implement?

You mentioned real Madrid and inter, but to me it looks like he is using dortmund as a template.

And that was my favorite, better then Tiki taka.

That for me was complete futbol, as they can play different system for different opponents.

Not like Barcelona that go shit when they get pressured.

On their day yes but often it doesn't work and relentless pressing means lot of the players are injured, it is good pressing but Dortmund is just doing it way too much and facing problems as the result

[Barbara 15,149]

So Barbara what system of a team you think he wants to implement?

You mentioned real Madrid and inter, but to me it looks like he is using dortmund as a template.

And that was my favorite, better then Tiki taka.

That for me was complete futbol, as they can play different system for different opponents.

Not like Barcelona that go shit when they get pressured.

Yeah, I think a bit from Inter, more from Madrid, but not a carbon copy of either. Dortmund exposed some of RM's weaknesses and Mourinho is aware of that (although the first SF leg was a combination of an ineffective system, but also players not turning up at all) and I guess that's why we aren't exclusively a counter-attack system. I mean neither is RM, but I feel we work the ball much more comfortably than they do. They prefer countering than building up, I don't think we do. We're comfortable doing both, maybe even more building (giving the players we have in Hazard, Oscar, Willian, Mata, Schurrle, KDB. The only ones I do feel are counter-attack players are Schurrle and in a lesser extent Hazard). The one thing we don't have that Inter and RM had though is a strong pivot. Khedira/Alonso and Cambiaso/Motta/Chivu (especially the latter) are a much better pivot than any combination we currently have. I'm positive one of the two clinical signings Mourinho said we'd have during the summer include a top CM he'll probably 'steal' from one of the Champions League teams, otherwise he'd sign them now. The same applies to the striker. He worded his sentence in such a way about the two signings he thinks we still need to make me believe those guys are currently playing Champions League and why invest a lot of money in a player that won't be part of the most important tournament we currently play (although I like EPL more and that's very important too).

It does resemble Dortmund as you said, but I don't think quite either because 1) they're faster and more urgent 2) they have Lewa, and Mourinho knows having a lethal striker is a vital part of Klopp's system. They attack fast and intensely because they know Lewa will get the ball in. But you're right and maybe the final product is a Dortmund style. To be honest, I haven't watched Dortmund that much as I'm really not a Bundesliga fan yet, but the few matches I've watched it was from them in UCL and BL.

As I said I think it's high pressing (high both in quantity as the zone in the pitch where the pressing is done), attack-based (building or counter-attacking) with a solid defense. Such combination of things will allow us to play without dominating possession, although against some sides we will dominate it (just like Madrid did). It's almost like describing Dortmund, but I don't think we are as urgent as they are. They're faster imo, more objective, but then again this is German football we're talking about, so saying that is almost redundancy. Still I think that's the difference, although there's some urgency when we have the ball, it's not as much as Dortmund. Complete football as you put it.

We could be wrong about it, but all signs show that direction imo.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

So Barbara what system of a team you think he wants to implement?

You mentioned real Madrid and inter, but to me it looks like he is using dortmund as a template.

And that was my favorite, better then Tiki taka.

That for me was complete futbol, as they can play different system for different opponents.

Not like Barcelona that go shit when they get pressured.

Dortmund concede way too much goals. We can't afford that since we are not as clinical as them in attack. We would be like bayern last season or madrid 2012

[xPetrCechx 13,578]

If people think they can get our good players in the sales, the sales in London finished yesterday.'

[Sidzeret 2,257]

Constant pressing, speed, dribbling and clinical finishing

And we have exactly the 3 players cut out for that sort of job in Hazard- Oscar- Willian.

[Phil Driver 503]

If Jose says he wants to stay for 12 years ,why not? the club should be doing everything to make sure that this time it is long term,

I think he has found home this time and he and his family obviously love London,all this firing managers after a bad season or a Champions League exit needs to end and long term trust needs to be given to Mourinho as his heart is in Chelsea and even thinking about replacing him for anyone else will be a backwards step and could lead to several seasons of turmoil.

We were very lucky he agreed to come back after the nonsense he put up with last time .

[robdog 2,084]

If Jose says he wants to stay for 12 years ,why not? the club should be doing everything to make sure that this time it is long term,

I think he has found home this time and he and his family obviously love London,all this firing managers after a bad season or a Champions League exit needs to end and long term trust needs to be given to Mourinho as his heart is in Chelsea and even thinking about replacing him for anyone else will be a backwards step and could lead to several seasons of turmoil.

We were very lucky he agreed to come back after the nonsense he put up with last time .

Don't forget that most of the Fans feel Jose is one of us

I'm saying that in the last couple of years that you could call being in a transition we were still winning trophies, and its my frim belief that this team (compared to the others) should be able to win the title this season.

I know you posted this a couple of days ago, but it almost seems that Jose read your post. Checkout this response from Jose today @ his Pre-match presser:

'They have had ups and downs, but lots of ups and good moments. They know we are building a new team, still with some faces from the previous decade, for another period of seven or eight years. The fans know our nature doesn't stop us fighting for the titles.'

It's saying that CFC are looking to win & build. Jose wants to build a Legacy in England & not just for CFC. He wants to be remember for all time.

[Eidur the Spider 4,515]

"If Mata came to me and said he wants to leave, I would say, 'Go to Stamford Bridge and speak with the board...And while Mata was on his way there, I'd call the board to say 'Don't let him go!"

:blue scalf:

[The_Flash 1,144]

It's an odd situation he doesn't see a place for mata in the team yet doesn't want him to go :/

[Tomo 21,751]

Hopefully should we get back to the same levels we were at between 04-10, we would have learned serious lesson's which will prevent us having to witness it all come to a horrible head like it did in 10-11 this time.

Even if it looks like there is no way a team could be improved further, there always is, and standing still will lead to stagnation somewhere along the line. Things have got slowly better since 10-11, but it was always going to take time after we let ourself's get to a position where we needed a complete overhaul.

United have been in slow decline since 2008, and yeah they have won 3 title's in that time while the squad was still competitive, but it would have came to a head eventually even if Fergie stayed (although not to the extent it has with Moyes). We seemed to stop our policy off bringing in young, hungry players in 2006, and 4 years later it came to bite us in the bum.

10-11 was horrific, 11-12 (league wise) was not much better (i know we finished 4 places below in 6th, but i reckon if we got knocked out of the FA Cup and CL earlier like we did in 10-11, we would have got top 4 and matched the 71 points from the previous season) but in 12-13 there was signs we were slowly getting there, but we still had an unbalanced team which showed in inconsistent result's, but our good displays gave us cause for optimism for future season;s.

Now we are getting closer, Mourinho's has implemented the high pressing and energy style he wants to adopt (while last season we suffered a bit of an identity crisis in terms of playing style), there is only a few bits in the jigsaw left needed, if we win the league or run the league close this season, the signs will be ominous for the years ahead. Good times.

[Phil Driver 503]

The Arsenal game showed Mourinho's intentions and feelings on transition,we could have opened the game up in the last 20 mins and lost (in my opinion it was more likely than winning) ,Mourinho has the title in his sights during this period of transition ,it is his nature. The risk of losing in that game far outweighed the risk we would have taken to win it late on ,especially after dominating the game and doing enough to have won ,it was a dent in Arsenal's confidence, had they won that we may now be well behind them with the boost/setback that result would have given to both clubs affecting the Christmas period.

In the Arsenal game it was critical to our title hopes not to lose and transition was never going to be the excuse for Mourinho,make no mistake ,he wants the Premier league title again and transition does not alter that. When transition is complete and we have a centre forward who can nick you the game at Arsenal we might be finishing 20 points clear of them ,but for now during transition we are trying to win the league.

[bababoom 4,478]

This is probably how Jose wants us to play, very impressive pressing.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

This is probably how Jose wants us to play, very impressive pressing.

Impressive.

But we need a stronger pivot to press position with such intend.

[Henrique 9,133]

[Henrique 9,133]

One thing that Mourinho is doing in his return, and I find it really annoying is his "English football is better" thing.

Every week he is praising one aspect of english football. After Liverpool's game he spent some seconds to say how good is PL, other day he was talking about "english blood", and about how bad are the foreigners divers (his words), then again days ago he was saying FIFA should solve the diving problem in other countries because there is few diving in PL, now he is talking about the lack of english managers in PL, because he thinks its a sad thing, and british managers are as good as the foreigners (even tough we all know that are few good managers out there born in UK).

For me it just an attempt to sound "popular", and the man is still under the effects of his failure in Spain, where the press has no respect for him. To be honest this is the worst aspect of Mourinho: his relationship with british press. The media always made him look like a messianic character. Spanish press made him look more like a villain from a comedy movie than anything.

Mourinho loves the press (because he feels loved), and he knows how to deal with it. Just look at his "special quote" I dont think there was something really...special about that, the was just saying he felt he was a special manager ("a" not "the"), since he was a european champion, but then he became "The Special One", and his quotes looked like words spelled by a divinity or got the same status as Churchill or Martin Luther King quotes.

Im more interested about his aspects as a manager. His SpecialOneLovesEnglishFootball character is annoying and predictable.

[darrus 422]

One thing that Mourinho is doing in his return, and I find it really annoying is his "English football is better" thing.

Every week he is praising one aspect of english football. After Liverpool's game he spent some seconds to say how good is PL, other day he was talking about "english blood", and about how bad are the foreigners divers (his words), then again days ago he was saying FIFA should solve the diving problem in other countries because there is few diving in PL, now he is talking about the lack of english managers in PL, because he thinks its a sad thing, and british managers are as good as the foreigners (even tough we all know that are few good managers out there born in UK).

For me it just an attempt to sound "popular", and the man is still under the effects of his failure in Spain, where the press has no respect for him. To be honest this is the worst aspect of Mourinho: his relationship with british press. The media always made him look like a messianic character. Spanish press made him look more like a villain from a comedy movie than anything.

Mourinho loves the press (because he feels loved), and he knows how to deal with it. Just look at his "special quote" I dont think there was something really...special about that, the was just saying he felt he was a special manager ("a" not "the"), since he was a european champion, but then he became "The Special One", and his quotes looked like words spelled by a divinity or got the same status as Churchill or Martin Luther King quotes.

Im more interested about his aspects as a manager. His SpecialOneLovesEnglishFootball character is annoying and predictable.

Since he was praising English football at every opportunity since he left England it was kind of predictable he will continue doing so at his return.