The Mourinho Thread

[iseah100 5,612]

But he isn't the sole person responsible, that's my point. It goes further than Emenalo. It goes all the way up to Roman, Marina, Eugene, Bruce Buck etc.

They're all responsible.

I didn't mean he was solely responsible. But he does deserve a fair share of the blame.

[Tomo 21,754]

Tomo, I respect the hell out of you. We've had plenty of disagreements in the past and they are always civil. You're one of the few members I genuinely nejoy having debates with.

The emotional connection to Jose was way OTT. And he played on that. That dynamic between club and manager was unhealthy and it's a massive reason why we are one point above relegation in December.

You backed him as much as you could but then changed your mind because you love the club more than the manager. I will always criticise the so-called Chelsea fans who put the fired one before the club.

My comments aren't direct at you, mate. :tophat:

That's the thing mate, I don't think most put him before the club, atleasr not knowingly, but after so many years being inconsistent and Arsenals whipping boys and (was the case for me) getting rinsed by those United and Arsenal fans in school, for Jose to come in (all be it with money to spend) and win us back to back titles and blow Arsenal out of the water especially, he was always going to impact a lot of people.

And don't worry its sound I know you weren't directing them at me, I've just always been quite defensive off the fan boy craze (unless it was Torres ).

[zolayes 14,489]

@ossie the king ... when you have been here for at least a few months instead of a few hours you will realise that Styles is well respected and not a wind up merchant .

Edited December 17, 2015 by The Skipper
His post was not offensive.

[Styles 9,790]

Really? Because for me an emotional connection between the supporters and the coach is something beautiful. To have the identity of the club embodied in one man so well is something of a rarity and you don't know how much you miss it until you're gone. That connection, is wasn't always perfect but there was love their and if you don't have that or if you judge it to be OTT then what are you supporting a club for?

Football is only about emotional connections for fucks sake.

It's a stupid game that has no importance but means everything and you must know that, surely. Yet you're going to use it to anonymously wind people up who you would probably count as your brethren or at the very least someone you have something in common with.

I loved the old Mourinho. 2004-2007 version is the one I hold dear and think of.

The broken, volatile and cynical version that came in 2013 wasn't an embodiment of Chelsea for me.

I supported the club long before Mourinho and will continue to do so. The connection and admiration I have for guys like Zola, Di Matteo, Drogba, Cech etc is a 9198465920x more powerful than anything I ever felt for Mourinho.

[Styles 9,790]

@ossie the king ... when you have been here for at least a few months instead of a few hours you will realise that Styles is well respected and not a wind up merchant .

his post was far less offensive than yours

@ossie the king isn't new, he's the only place to be

I can tell

[Styles 9,790]

That's the thing mate, I don't think most put him before the club, atleasr not knowingly, but after so many years being inconsistent and Arsenals whipping boys and (was the case for me) getting rinsed by those United and Arsenal fans in school, for Jose to come in (all be it with money to spend) and win us back to back titles and blow Arsenal out of the water especially, he was always going to impact a lot of people.

And don't worry its sound I know you weren't directing them at me, I've just always been quite defensive off the fan boy craze (unless it was Torres ).

2004-2007 Mourinho is a legend.

The Mourinho who got fired today is another person.

[Ossie the King 634]

I loved the old Mourinho. 2004-2007 version is the one I hold dear and think of.

The broken, volatile and cynical version that came in 2013 wasn't an embodiment of Chelsea for me.

I supported the club long before Mourinho and will continue to do so. The connection and admiration I have for guys like Zola, Di Matteo, Drogba, Cech etc is a 9198465920x more powerful than anything I ever felt for Mourinho.

I loved that Mourinho, but it was the same guy just older. People change and you can either change with them or not and if you didn't then that's fine. What you've got to understand is that a lot of Chelsea supporters clearly did care about him and you're clearly on a bit of a wind-up here. Maybe not intentionally but that's how it's coming off to me.

But I'd be interested to know your views on what this club's identity is now. Those players you've cited come from two distinct eras, the period immediately before Roman when we were a well-liked club who had a soft underbelly and the first Jose period when we were much more steely side who could overpower sides.

What do you think our identity is now?

[Ossie the King 634]

@ossie the king isn't new, he's the only place to be

I can tell

No idea mate but I can honestly say I'm not a multi.

Also you can't on the one hand say you're not a wum and then change your avatar to a picture that you know will wind some people up. At least have a brass to admit that.

[Melanicus 5,208]

What a shame. Thank your for everything Jose.

[Blue-in-me-Veins 4,067]

Firing Jose had to be done.

How else were Chelsea FC going to win the Champions League??

[cosmicway 1,333]

There are a sea of comments on Mourinho's departure right now, but there is a splendid two way piece that I recommend everybody should take a moment to read. It really does an amazing job in detailing Mourinho's managerial career until now. It's a MUST read for all Jose fans and critics:

Part 1

https://www.theblizzard.co.uk/articles/the-devils-party/

Part 2

https://www.theblizzard.co.uk/articles/the-devils-party-part-2/

The author of this story says Mourinho wanted some transfers in the summer but could n't have them.

He did however send away some good men, like Andre Schurle with no real justification.

[GodZola 630]

That's my pick too. I'd also like Tuchel. However, our lack of pace at the back pretty much determines our tactical options. Even Jose played a high pressing game at Porto, but couldn't do it here because of Terry's lack of mobility. We saw what happened when AVB tried to do it and stubbornly wouldn't change. We'll see what the new guy wants to do and what kind of "eggs" he has to work with.

Please note that I'm not knocking Terry. He's one of the best defenders to ever play in England IMO. I'm just saying that his mobility doesn't give managers a lot of tactical freedom.

JT was the best defender in the league last season, unfortunately he's being found out because he hasn't the protection infront of him as Matic has been largely poor & also covering too much ground trying to cover Fabs arse! I maybe wrong but I don't see JT as a starter next season, would be good to have him around as player coach or involved in some description.

I believe our midfield needs major surgery & legs! Yes there are problems at the back but if we kept the ball more often instead of giving it away after 2 passes then we wouldn't be under so much pressure, it nay not of been the right time to play the highline under AVB but I want us to play further up the pitch, we are far too deep!

Not heard of Tuchel, Poch already has the experience of the Prem league so he'd be my outstanding choice but obviously I'm open to suggestions.

[The Skipper 20,609]

Call me naive but I'm firmly of the belief that Jose would've turned it around and got us to mid-table (pause for laughter) but that long-term he was the best manager for the job. I believed that before he came, I believed that in May of this year and I believe it now. It went beyond purely what was on the pitch and into what we were trying to build as a club. Again, I think today we've lost a huge remnant of whatever identity we had as a club and I really think the CPO could be an issue for Roman because of that.

You know, I agree that Mourinho would've definitely steered us to mid table but that isn't much of an achievement as you would know. I think we both want the same thing for the club, we both want the club to move in the right direction - key difference here is that you believe that Jose is the embodiment of how we should achieve that, whereas I have lost faith in him. That's fair from you - if there was any person in Chelsea history you'd want to place your faith in, it'd probably be Jose - but to me he isn't the same anymore, and I initially liked this - it was evident that he wasn't the same Jose when he came back - but I've grown to not be as in awe of him as I was before. I think the game has surpassed him in certain ways, which means he'd be detrimental to the long term future of the club - but of course that is just my opinion. Your opinion is fair as well, I think you've come across very well and respectful in your posts, so for that I must thank you. However, I just can't agree with you.

You're perhaps hoping that Roman can develop a cohesive footballing identity that can lead us comfortably over the next decade. I personally don't think the guy knows what he's doing now.

Let's not forget that Roman Abramovich overrode the league-winning manager and sold one of the best keepers in the world to one of our closest rivals.

I'm honestly not too fussed by players going to rivals - Jose similarly (even though he was against the Cech sale) has shown in the past that he isn't too fussed by it either - him getting Mata to United for example.

And one of the main reasons we won the league.

There's this cognitive dissonance I'm noticing.

Jose Mourinho - wins league - best manager in country - downturn in form - toxic, deserves sack, cancer etc.

Eden Hazard - wins league - best player in country - downturn in form - one of few elite players in squad, will come good, needs the right coach.

Of course Jose was one of the main reasons we won the title last year as well, I'd never say he was not. That doesn't mean that my view of him being our long term manager can't change though.

The difference between Eden and Jose is that Jose is an abrasive, arrogant character, so he will get tagged like that. Eden however is very light hearted. It's very difficult to compare a player and a manager though, so I'll stop here.

And yet you've advocated sacking one of the top 10 coaches in the world and leaving these people in charge to build something at this club?

What they've shown is that they've learnt nothing from the Rafa debacle.

I disagree. We'll have to wait and see whether they've learnt from this or not, but the way the board built the squad before Jose arrived and the way we clinically made our summer signings last year - I can't say that I fully trust them to steer us in the right direction yet but I'm willing to see what happens - it's all we can do now.

[Muzchap 8,966]

2004-2007 Mourinho is a legend.

The Mourinho who got fired today is another person.

This!!!! 100000000000% this!!!

[Ossie the King 634]

You know, I agree that Mourinho would've definitely steered us to mid table but that isn't much of an achievement as you would know. I think we both want the same thing for the club, we both want the club to move in the right direction - key difference here is that you believe that Jose is the embodiment of how we should achieve that, whereas I have lost faith in him. That's fair from you - if there was any person in Chelsea history you'd want to place your faith in, it'd probably be Jose - but to me he isn't the same anymore, and I initially liked this - it was evident that he wasn't the same Jose when he came back - but I've grown to not be as in awe of him as I was before. I think the game has surpassed him in certain ways, which means he'd be detrimental to the long term future of the club - but of course that is just my opinion. Your opinion is fair as well, I think you've come across very well and respectful in your posts, so for that I must thank you. However, I just can't agree with you.

That's fair enough. I don't think times had passed by the guy who won the league last season, and if they have then what does that say about the managers he beat and who are now above him? Maybe it comes down to the form is temporary and class is permanent stuff....

but if that's not true about Jose why would it be true about the players under a new manager? Can't have it both ways unfortunately.

I'm honestly not too fussed by players going to rivals - Jose similarly (even though he was against the Cech sale) has shown in the past that he isn't too fussed by it either - him getting Mata to United for example.

Not each transfer is equal though. Mata wasn't needed by United and was a panic buy.

Cech was EXACTLY what Arsenal needed both on the pitch and in the locker room. It's what they needed for years and Roman undermined his coach by selling him to them against his wishes.

Of course Jose was one of the main reasons we won the title last year as well, I'd never say he was not. That doesn't mean that my view of him being our long term manager can't change though.

The difference between Eden and Jose is that Jose is an abrasive, arrogant character, so he will get tagged like that. Eden however is very light hearted. It's very difficult to compare a player and a manager though, so I'll stop here.

Maybe that's where we're different. I think Jose (like Eden) was right for us in May, is right for us now and will be right for us next season. You only believe that about Eden and you think Jose isn't.

I disagree. We'll have to wait and see whether they've learnt from this or not, but the way the board built the squad before Jose arrived and the way we clinically made our summer signings last year - I can't say that I fully trust them to steer us in the right direction yet but I'm willing to see what happens - it's all we can do now.

So you're trusting the board based on what they did in 2014-15 and you hope that they'll turn it around?

I felt the same about Jose.

[The Skipper 20,609]

2004-2007 Mourinho is a legend.

The Mourinho who got fired today is another person.

Couldn't have said it better tbh.

[Muzchap 8,966]

For me Mourinho just hasn't adapted.

Real Madrid broke him

We got sloppy seconds - gone was the Mourinho I remember, instead we got a paranoid, grumpy little man!

Towards the end was unbearable - if it was up to me, I would have put him out of his misery earlier, excruciating watching him unravel in front of the world and cameras.

The Mourinho Mk1 - I will always love

The Mourinho Mk2 - I will thank for his effort, but could never love him as before

I think he needs to go back to Real Madrid and battle whatever demons are still eating away at him. It's sad to see him like this.

I guess Mourinho is one of those people with the rare ability to make you feel 10ft tall or 1ft high. I suspect, that as his mood intensified the former became scarcer and the latter more prevalent, that's a quick way to lose a dressing room.

I will still advocate that the players have not forced him out - just that the dynamic was no longer working - Mourinho tried everything and all it did was alienate the players further.

I get people are emotional, but life moves on, remember the good times as nobody can predict the future ?

Let's get our support on for the next game and pick up a much needed 3 points.

A winning streak until the end of the season and who knows - could potentially nick a CL spot or lift the big eared trophy ? again

[Fernando 6,743]

The last 2 weeks summed up the players attitude for whole of this season, miserable, terrible against Bournemouth at home, get up for it against Porto (to ensure they've still got something to play for after Jose is sacked) then back to another half arsed can't rebothered performance against Leicester!

Yes Jose made mistakes & those have done the rounds in here over & over, unfortunately the club were backed into a corner with us being 1 point off a relegation place & with this spineless bunch it was never going to change, they literally threw him under that bus!

Going to be an interesting transfer window in January, hopefully Roman will get rid of some of the gutless arseholes & start to give the growing list of talented young players we have in the ranks a chance & yes I do think Jose should have implemented this (said so a while back) & my biggest beef this season mainly because I think it could of saved him his job. Young players are hungry, they will give you that desire, enthusiasm & show some fight week in week out, José tried everything with the senior players but its been transparent they weren't having any of it. The team lacks leaders & a bond between them, pretty clear there are fractions amongst the squad which doesn't bode well for the interim?!

There might be an initial improvement but I can see us continually flaunting around the relegation zone unless there is one almighty shake up.

As for a new manager, well I don't see Guardiola coming, not sure why Simeone is being touted on here as members have got the arse about Jose defensive style so why would they want him? Think the interim could be in for a hiding to nothing but for me I would upset Spurs & go all out for Pochettino in the summer, this guy is brilliant in bringing through the youth talent & not frightened to either, we have a golden conveyor belt for him to chose from, these lads have been winning things together over the last 4/5 seasons, their all champing at the bit to impress & what better appointment than Poch who has proved it at Southampton too, yes there might be a trophyless season but in the long-term we could be entering a golden era if all that talent is nurtured in a couple of years.

Pochetino is of the Bielsa school. Him and pep are.

This is why I wanted to have someone like Bielsa to prepare the grounds for someone else to take over.

But Bielsa is like Mourinho, too crazy personality and these are not good for long term.

Prefare someone like Pochetino, so that's a good shout out for someone like him.

The only problem would be his experience in Europe but who cares about that just as long as we can get back on track.

[The Skipper 20,609]

That's fair enough. I don't think times had passed by the guy who won the league last season, and if they have then what does that say about the managers he beat and who are now above him? Maybe it comes down to the form is temporary and class is permanent stuff....

but if that's not true about Jose why would it be true about the players under a new manager? Can't have it both ways unfortunately.

Not each transfer is equal though. Mata wasn't needed by United and was a panic buy.

Cech was EXACTLY what Arsenal needed both on the pitch and in the locker room. It's what they needed for years and Roman undermined his coach by selling him to them against his wishes.

Maybe that's where we're different. I think Jose (like Eden) was right for us in May, is right for us now and will be right for us next season. You only believe that about Eden and you think Jose isn't.

So you're trusting the board based on what they did in 2014-15 and you hope that they'll turn it around?

I felt the same about Jose.

Fair comments.

I have to say, it's different when it comes to hiring a new manager than what went on with Jose in the last few months. The psychological aspect of the game is very underrated, and it seemed to me that the players didn't lose belief in Mourinho per se, more so in his footballing ideas. As a manager, it's important to stop individuals from becoming complacent, but Jose did not manage that and we now find ourselves in this situation.

Just to clarify on what I meant about the board - what they did in the 14/15 season was very good, but the ground work coming up to that; specifically after 2012, where they invested smartly in players such as KDB, Lukaku, Courtois, Eden, Oscar, Azpi etc... I commend them for their work there - that is the direction I saw the club going into.

It's been a pleasure debating with you, but a man has to go to bed and get ready for work. I must say again that you do come across very well in your posts, so keep it up. Hope that you stick around and become an active member here, it's nice to have different views that are put across eloquently.

[Muzchap 8,966]

Hey does this mean Lionsden is allowed back on the board now? As ultimately he was right all along?

I'm picturing and hearing the voice of vadar as he's dying in ROTJ - tell Lionsden he was right...

Nice Star Wars twist to today's saga