The Mourinho Thread

[Tomo 21,730]

17 hours ago, LDN Blue said:

To be honest, how is any manager ever meant to avoid player power here? Drogba and co set a dangerous precedent under past managers that showed a clear Chelsea policy, first in first out. As in, first manager in first manager out. 

Even an ultimate authoritarian like Ferguson would struggle under this model. There is no fear in these guys to be 'sacked', they know who's head the axe falls on every 6-18 months.

That was the downside of having so many leaders in a squad, yeah they will beat us through some hard times but if you have so many personalities/leaders in the dressing room with it creates big ego's and that can become a problem with manager's that are "not for them". It's one thing them having the power in their prime but it's another when they were past it, I know they all made ammends with Munich but post double season till then having a bunch of undroppable players hitting father time was a huge problem.

I think with Jose this season it was more than just losing the dressing room, I think relations between him and the team totally broke down to the point of no return, so many single things triggered it, whereas with Scolari and AVB it was more the leaders resisting the methods.

The advantage not having that many leaders and big personalities in this squad will bring for Antonio is that he has practically got a blank canvas, this squad is at a sort of crossroads were we can go any which way in terms of style if play, whereas the 04-12 bunch were so set in their ways we basically couldn't change from the physical, fast counter approach, two managers tried and both failed.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

4 hours ago, Tomo said:

That was the downside of having so many leaders in a squad, yeah they will beat us through some hard times but if you have so many personalities/leaders in the dressing room with it creates big ego's and that can become a problem with manager's that are "not for them". It's one thing them having the power in their prime but it's another when they were past it, I know they all made ammends with Munich but post double season till then having a bunch of undroppable players hitting father time was a huge problem.

I think with Jose this season it was more than just losing the dressing room, I think relations between him and the team totally broke down to the point of no return, so many single things triggered it, whereas with Scolari and AVB it was more the leaders resisting the methods.

The advantage not having that many leaders and big personalities in this squad will bring for Antonio is that he has practically got a blank canvas, this squad is at a sort of crossroads were we can go any which way in terms of style if play, whereas the 04-12 bunch were so set in their ways we basically couldn't change from the physical, fast counter approach, two managers tried and both failed.

Yeah I can agree with that. It's like I just said in the Terry thread, it's about time Chelsea dismantled that 2012 winning squad.. They've taken their sweet time about it and when we had players capable of becoming the new long-term core (Lukaku, De Bruyne, etc), Mourinho came and had to have 'his' guys. I think if they were signed when he was in charge, he would have never doubted any of them. 

As for Conte (or whoever) having a blank canvas, yes and no. You've got to hope Roman's doing what Newcastle just did and take apart the outdated 'we sign players before you even arrive' policy and see if the manager's ideas match the recruitment. You'd have to hope the powers of Emenalo are curbed, especially when it comes to signing young players straight for the first team. It's all good him taking care of the academy - it's reaping rewards under Hiddink - but first team is beyond his capabilities and Pato/Falcao proves that.

[LAM09 6,686]

It's time that people stop misinterpreting this sentence : ( starts at 2:20 )

He is presenting assumptions to answer the question about the players' level : "Or last season i did a phenomenal work brought them to a level that is not their level, or this season we are doing so bad that the players for some reason [...] clearly where for some of them it's so difficult" 

"Or" plays the "whether" role here. ( One of the translations for whether in portuguese is "ou" actually, which is "or" in french, and since he speaks that many languages, you can't blame him for not placing the exact word... )

And if I understand it right, he is trying to imply that it is an extraordinary coincidence that all these players have such dips in form in the same time. 

But of course, all people got from the video was that "All last season I did phenomenal work & I brought them to a level that is... more than they really are"

 

 

That might be the case, but sentiment is still the same. Mou's gone and the majority of the squad haven't improved. That's why the specific statement/comment seems plausible.

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

I think he did do phenomenal work and got them playing above their level.  It was above the level of the team before he got here, so why wouldn't that be true?  (I do agree with the 

I think he does burn a squad out though.  He likes a settled XI with very little rotation, but more importantly, I think he burns them out mentally.

Jose has a huge chip on his shoulder, all the time.  He gets the siege mentality going and looks for slights to keep the fire burning.  I just think that the players can maintain that too.  They won the league and couldn't get that same intensity going.  He's been obsessed with Pep and beating Pep since being turned down for the Barca job.  His play became even more defensive and anti-Barca.  He's still obsessed with it.  I just don't think that most players can keep a grudge for as long as he does.

[Blue_Fox_ 2,086]

28 minutes ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

He's still obsessed with it.  I just don't think that most players can keep a grudge for as long as he does.

He should manage women football. Ba dum tssss.



Sorry.

[Essien19 1,415]

1 hour ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

I think he did do phenomenal work and got them playing above their level.  It was above the level of the team before he got here, so why wouldn't that be true?  (I do agree with the 

I think he does burn a squad out though.  He likes a settled XI with very little rotation, but more importantly, I think he burns them out mentally.

Jose has a huge chip on his shoulder, all the time.  He gets the siege mentality going and looks for slights to keep the fire burning.  I just think that the players can maintain that too.  They won the league and couldn't get that same intensity going.  He's been obsessed with Pep and beating Pep since being turned down for the Barca job.  His play became even more defensive and anti-Barca.  He's still obsessed with it.  I just don't think that most players can keep a grudge for as long as he does.

Would be fun to see him back in La Liga, sooner than later.
Perhaps at a small team and then going after the big guns, especially Barcelona.
Barcelona will never touch him again, bridges were burned, but hunting these cunts week in and week out, like a little bee, buzz, buzz, buzz, always around their ears and coming up with little digs, man, that would be fun, but not healthy for Jose, mhh.

[robsblubot 3,458]

People are still blaming mourinho really?!

then Jose can do no right, can he? I mean he's been gone forever and aside from putting a smile in some of the most mediocre players we've got, we've been playing pretty much the same shit as before - just as unwatchable.

let me put it in perspective: Everton, a pretty bad side on their own, spanked us because they are better than us. That's how bad we are.

Do people miss mata really ?! Being wrong about Oscar does not make him wrong about mata. Juan mata imo does not belong in the elite - simple.

finally, would it matter if we were 2or 3 places lower in the standings because it would have taken the players longer to realize they would have to suffer through him?

i know someone will come here and say we would have dropped, but how do you know that? We were not in relegation and would not be had Jose stayed.

who knows he might even have produced a less naive starting xi against psg.

the truth is that Jose did make the same set of players play better, last season, than they have lately. Can you claim that hiddink would have been able to accomplish the same? Why have we stagnated? Why have we even regressed then?

im far from a Jose fan, but boy I don't understand how Hiddnk gets a free pass from taking a set of very expensive players to this mediocrity everybody sees.

[Tomo 21,730]

1 hour ago, Robguima said:

People are still blaming mourinho really?!

then Jose can do no right, can he? I mean he's been gone forever and aside from putting a smile in some of the most mediocre players we've got, we've been playing pretty much the same shit as before - just as unwatchable.

let me put it in perspective: Everton, a pretty bad side on their own, spanked us because they are better than us. That's how bad we are.

Do people miss mata really ?! Being wrong about Oscar does not make him wrong about mata. Juan mata imo does not belong in the elite - simple.

finally, would it matter if we were 2or 3 places lower in the standings because it would have taken the players longer to realize they would have to suffer through him?

i know someone will come here and say we would have dropped, but how do you know that? We were not in relegation and would not be had Jose stayed.

who knows he might even have produced a less naive starting xi against psg.

the truth is that Jose did make the same set of players play better, last season, than they have lately. Can you claim that hiddink would have been able to accomplish the same? Why have we stagnated? Why have we even regressed then?

im far from a Jose fan, but boy I don't understand how Hiddnk gets a free pass from taking a set of very expensive players to this mediocrity everybody sees.

Basing it purely on this season (as I do believe Jose took us to a level beyond the squad last season) I'm sorry but it's ridiculous to say there's been no difference since Guus took over.

Under Jose in the league we had 15 points in 16 games losing 9 and scoring just 18 goals and were 16th, one point aboverelegation, since Guus took over in the league we have 25 points in 13 games are second in the form table since his arrival and have scored 25 goals, that's a huge difference.

We look better in attacking play aswell, much better and PSG Guus didn't cover himself in glory but Everton didn't batter us, it was a cagey game opened up by one moment of brilliance.

I'm one of Jose's biggest fans and I will say he did brilliant last two season's till I'm blue in the face, but this season he screwed badly and since he's gone there's been a big improvement, still some horrible displays and it was awful going out of two cups in a week, but Guus point return since his arrival is actually title form in this crazy season (75 points will likely win it this season, just under two points a game, which is our form under Hiddink).

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

What's up with him? hope he is doing well

[manpe 10,861]

3 hours ago, Robguima said:

im far from a Jose fan, but boy I don't understand how Hiddnk gets a free pass from taking a set of very expensive players to this mediocrity everybody sees.

The key here is that Guus took them to mediocrity, exactly. Before those expensive overpaid players weren't even mediocre, but utter garbage. It's clear our attacking has improved (we are scoring open play goals instead of relying on Willian's FKs). Defence is as hopeless as it was, but we are now at least managing to outscore opponents from time to time. And as Tomo pointed out, we've gone from relegation form to title challenging form ever since. That is a huge difference, I have no doubt we would have lost a lot more if Jose was still here - he had palpable discord with not only the players, but the staff as well since day 1 actually. I don't have any reason to doubt Emenalo's words, we could all see it. FYI I thought Emenalo's statement was fine, people are going over the top with the blame game (the 'individual' comment irked me a bit though, but whatever).

I was in denial before, because I love him, but I have now accepted that he lost the plot. When a change of only the manager (he didn't even bring any backroom staff afaik) brings along such a big difference that we went 12 or so games unbeaten, then it's clear where the main problem lied.

[robsblubot 3,458]

20 hours ago, Tomo said:

Basing it purely on this season (as I do believe Jose took us to a level beyond the squad last season) I'm sorry but it's ridiculous to say there's been no difference since Guus took over.

Under Jose in the league we had 15 points in 16 games losing 9 and scoring just 18 goals and were 16th, one point aboverelegation, since Guus took over in the league we have 25 points in 13 games are second in the form table since his arrival and have scored 25 goals, that's a huge difference.

We look better in attacking play aswell, much better and PSG Guus didn't cover himself in glory but Everton didn't batter us, it was a cagey game opened up by one moment of brilliance.

I'm one of Jose's biggest fans and I will say he did brilliant last two season's till I'm blue in the face, but this season he screwed badly and since he's gone there's been a big improvement, still some horrible displays and it was awful going out of two cups in a week, but Guus point return since his arrival is actually title form in this crazy season (75 points will likely win it this season, just under two points a game, which is our form under Hiddink).

To each his one, but these sliced up fictitious standings don't work for me: different oponents, fitness, momentum, and timing. The little improvement there was, and there was improvement, can be attributed to a number of factors.

18 hours ago, manpe said:

The key here is that Guus took them to mediocrity, exactly. Before those expensive overpaid players weren't even mediocre, but utter garbage. It's clear our attacking has improved (we are scoring open play goals instead of relying on Willian's FKs). Defence is as hopeless as it was, but we are now at least managing to outscore opponents from time to time. And as Tomo pointed out, we've gone from relegation form to title challenging form ever since. That is a huge difference, I have no doubt we would have lost a lot more if Jose was still here - he had palpable discord with not only the players, but the staff as well since day 1 actually. I don't have any reason to doubt Emenalo's words, we could all see it. FYI I thought Emenalo's statement was fine, people are going over the top with the blame game (the 'individual' comment irked me a bit though, but whatever).

I was in denial before, because I love him, but I have now accepted that he lost the plot. When a change of only the manager (he didn't even bring any backroom staff afaik) brings along such a big difference that we went 12 or so games unbeaten, then it's clear where the main problem lied.

Guus did not take anyone anywhere. They are millionaire footballers who started the season unfit and lazily. They have visibly been improving their fitness which is hardly Guus' doing.

I just believe that the merits of the mediocre improvement are(in order of importance):

1) fitness

2) Guus not being Jose (literally anyone but Jose would do)

3) Guus' ability

im sorry but in my mind I can't scape the idea that Guus is the least important factor and the most important one is the players who lacked desire and quality. The small squad emphasized the poor individual form.

had Guus done more, played at a higher level, improved the team further, especially against top sides where tactics play a bigge part) then I'd agree and give his due credit.

what I see is still poor football performed by very expensive players. A team that can usually beat the small sides, ties the mid, and lose to big clubs. Hardly an achievement in my book.

as much as I dislike Jose's antics, there was no excuse for players lack of dedication and desire. I cannot attribute their form to Jose otherwise I'd have to say Jose alone won the league before and not these horrible players. Neither being entirely true.

[11Drogba 2,000]

Don Mourinho will make Manchester United great again.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

On 3/14/2016 at 3:52 AM, LAM09 said:

 

Mourinho, December 14, 2015: "All last season I did phenomenal work & I brought them to a level that is... more than they really are."

I'm starting to believe he was right.

If he actualy believed that, he would improve the team in summer which he did not. 

 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,869]

On 14/03/2016 at 2:52 AM, LAM09 said:

 

Mourinho, December 14, 2015: "All last season I did phenomenal work & I brought them to a level that is... more than they really are."

I'm starting to believe he was right.

 

6 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

If he actualy believed that, he would improve the team in summer which he did not. 

 

Who knows what Jose did, or did not, try to do in the summer? As events unfolded he changed his tune but, long before the season ended, he was talking about the need for three or four signings in the window. I commented on it at the time because: -

• He never says so many.
• He always signs more players than he initially predicts so, if he said up to four, then how many did he actually think were required?

Does anyone believe that the players we signed last summer were the whole of the list Jose had in mind when he made those comments? Does anyone doubt that, when he later said we were OK without new signings, he was simply reacting to the fact that our plans had gone badly and that it was not right to announce our failures to any remaining targets?

Be all that as it may, surely the truth of Jose's statement quoted above is evident to anyone who watches the team. I and many others said it before Jose did. (Publicly that is.)

Jose was criticised for the switch he made after the Tottenham game in January 2015. Countless trillions of photons have hurtled into our eyes carrying the moans about the ugliness of Chelsea's football after that time*. The change was necessary however because that was the only way this lot would gather enough points to ensure the title. Sadly for the club that trophy merely convinced the squad that they are better than is really the case, that they had outgrown TSO, and that they could do it their own way. As a result; they downed tools, betrayed Jose's methods and allowed the spectre of relegation to move into our house.

What have our players done since Jose left? They have picked up their tools again and set about proving, if proof were needed, that Jose was right. They may be trying but they are not very good. Which of us really needed that proof however? Not me.

 

*Please don't tell me we were brilliant before Christmas last season. Anyone who thinks that, wasn't watching. We were fluent for about six weeks until sides began to suss us out. After that, with few exceptions, it was clunkey all the way until the results began to be threatened and Jose made the change.

[Special Juan 27,385]

Adrian Durham piece on The Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3503746/Chelsea-players-disgrace-Thibaut-Courtois-average-John-Terry-club-look-bad-Eden-Hazard-joke-looks-like-Chester.html

[BlueLion. 21,491]

2 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

Adrian Durham piece on The Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3503746/Chelsea-players-disgrace-Thibaut-Courtois-average-John-Terry-club-look-bad-Eden-Hazard-joke-looks-like-Chester.html

Does this count as journalism these days? 

[Special Juan 27,385]

Just now, BlueLion said:

Does this count as journalism these days? 

I wouldn't wrap chips in it.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,869]

17 minutes ago, BlueLion said:

Does this count as journalism these days? 

He is, I'm afraid, right about JT.