Marco van Ginkel

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Chalobah is only 18 and has only had 1 season and that in the Championship. You're on something if you think we should put that kind of responsibility on a guy that young. He needs consistent time in the EPL to develop before he's ready for Chelsea. Van Ginkel has already played 120 games for Vitesse, he's a full international for Netherlands and will most likely be part of their world cup squad next year. Now you tell me which player we have in our midfield ranks that is that far in their development?

And, don't even mention RLC, dude is 16, by the time he gets to 20, 21, Lamps, Essien, Mikel will be all gone, Ramires will be close to the end of his career and Van Ginkel would be our first choice starter alongside Chalobah most likely.

I understand what you're saying, but Van Ginkel thread def isn't the place to bring this up in. Van Ginkel is the same place in his development as Oscar was last year and KDB, Lukaku are this year. They have had good experience and can help the first team. Chalobah is two steps behind (another loan) then Chelsea squad, and RLC is 3 (championship loan, EPL loan, Chelsea). And, guys like Lewis Baker and Ake aren't good enough to make it for Chelsea imo. They'll still have a good career and owe a lot of Chelsea academy for developing them and handling their loans, but they aren't as good prospects as RLC and Chalobah.

So where exactly will Chalobah and Rlc play at age 20-21 when Ginkel and rest will be even more experienced? Where will they get experience? On loans to be forgotten? Because they wont get much play time. We should sign someone like De Rossi and rotate him with Rambo, Lamps, Romeu,..while Rlc and Chalobah would get chances in Fa and Carling.

Besides point of transition seasons is that you give chance to young players, not win games and titles. If Chalobah or Rlc would get 20 games next season, we might finish 4th with zero trophies, but Rlc and Chalobah would get more experience. Point of transition season, I guess many here expect youth to just pop in the team and we will still play top football all the time...

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

So where exactly will Chalobah and Rlc play at age 20-21 when Ginkel and rest will be even more experienced? Where will they get experience? On loans to be forgotten? Because they wont get much play time. We should sign someone like De Rossi and rotate him with Rambo, Lamps, Romeu,..while Rlc and Chalobah would get chances in Fa and Carling.

Besides point of transition seasons is that you give chance to young players, not win games and titles. If Chalobah or Rlc would get 20 games next season, we might finish 4th with zero trophies, but Rlc and Chalobah would get more experience. Point of transition season, I guess many here expect youth to just pop in the team and we will still play top football all the time...

Who is Ginkel and the rest?

When Chalobah is 21, we'll have Mikel, Ramires, Romeu and Van Ginkel only.

When RLC is 21, we'll have Romeu and Van Ginkel only.

I really don't see what you're talking about being overcrowded.

Point of transition season is definitely NOT to finish 4th but blood in youngsters. Point of a transition season is move towards a different set of players, playing style etc. You could buy 6 30 year olds and integrate them next season and that will still be called a transition season. Transition has absolutely nothing to do with integrating youth into the team. If you want to integrate youth and be content with 4th then have fun turning Chelsea into Arsenal for the next 10 years.

Chelsea's transition is not to get younger (that's a by product thanks to good scouting). Our transition is the immersion of a new playing style, with a new set of players. Emenalo has done an amazing job to ensure the new set is still very young too.

Chalobah and RLC will gain experience playing in Chelsea, but it'll be at a cost. Getting babied through a long season with Carling Cup and useless games can only help so much. You know what's good experience? Chalobah fighting for his and his team's life in the Championship for a playoff spot, that's good experience, not a Carling Cup game where he gets 30 minutes after we're up 5 goals. Right now, their physical and technical development is more important than experience. Experience will come in due time. It's a myth when people say these youth kids need experience. Yes they need some top level experience but priority should be towards their physical and technical development before you shove some experience down their throat. They are still kids for god's sakes. They need consistent playing time wherever that may be, they need specialized training and top level coaching.

Physical, technical development comes first for teenagers. Once they are far in that development, then start worrying about experience. Oscar, KDB, Lukaku and Van Ginkel. These guys have been through their initial development stage and are now on their path to amass experience at the top level to be able to cope with the pressures of being at a club like Chelsea (I would say Lukaku is still very raw, but he's a freak athelete so he's an exception). Chalobah, RLC, McEachran are still in their initial stages of development. They need to focus on other things before we start worrying about whether they've had good experience.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Who is Ginkel and the rest?

When Chalobah is 21, we'll have Mikel, Ramires, Romeu and Van Ginkel only.

When RLC is 21, we'll have Romeu and Van Ginkel only.

I really don't see what you're talking about being overcrowded.

Point of transition season is definitely NOT to finish 4th but blood in youngsters. Point of a transition season is move towards a different set of players, playing style etc. You could buy 6 30 year olds and integrate them next season and that will still be called a transition season. Transition has absolutely nothing to do with integrating youth into the team. If you want to integrate youth and be content with 4th then have fun turning Chelsea into Arsenal for the next 10 years.

Chelsea's transition is not to get younger (that's a by product thanks to good scouting). Our transition is the immersion of a new playing style, with a new set of players. Emenalo has done an amazing job to ensure the new set is still very young too.

Chalobah and RLC will gain experience playing in Chelsea, but it'll be at a cost. Getting babied through a long season with Carling Cup and useless games can only help so much. You know what's good experience? Chalobah fighting for his and his team's life in the Championship for a playoff spot, that's good experience, not a Carling Cup game where he gets 30 minutes after we're up 5 goals. Right now, their physical and technical development is more important than experience. Experience will come in due time. It's a myth when people say these youth kids need experience. Yes they need some top level experience but priority should be towards their physical and technical development before you shove some experience down their throat. They are still kids for god's sakes. They need consistent playing time wherever that may be, they need specialized training and top level coaching.

Physical, technical development comes first for teenagers. Once they are far in that development, then start worrying about experience. Oscar, KDB, Lukaku and Van Ginkel. These guys have been through their initial development stage and are now on their path to amass experience at the top level to be able to cope with the pressures of being at a club like Chelsea (I would say Lukaku is still very raw, but he's a freak athelete so he's an exception). Chalobah, RLC, McEachran are still in their initial stages of development. They need to focus on other things before we start worrying about whether they've had good experience.

My point was why buy other players when we could use our own?

Barca had Thiago but instead bought Cesc. Spent lot of money and now it seems they will lose one of the best if not the best la massia product of last few years. Just an odd example, but back then Thiago didnt seem to be good enough, now he is. Perhaps Rlc and Chalobah arent good enough now, but will be in two years. Lets say we buy Kondogbia and we play Ginkel as main CM for next 10 years. Where will Chalobah and Rlc play? You know you CAN develop own players in club not sending them on loans. Think of 19 years old Ronaldo at ManU. Was he too young? Should he be sent on loan, who knows what would happen to him. As far as I know we dont have good DM. Why not give chance to Chalobah who would exchange with Romeu, Mikel? What if he becomes world class DM but it would sacrifice one season for Chelsea sucess? Would you take it or send him on loan for few years and buy some top DM/Kondogbia instead?

Same goes for the rest of our players.

[Moros 86]

Not wanting to be a party pooper, but whoever believes Van Ginkel is as far as Oscar was last year or as fars KDB is this year, well is quite deluded. Sure he has played quite a few games for vitesse (which were very depended on Bony), what does that say? The Dutch league is only very slightly better than the Belgian one, if at all. I'd say he's about as far as KDB a year and a half ago. I think he could have an impact but needs a decent loan for year first. Sure he's part of the dutch squad, but as far as I know he played only once for them. Compare that to KDB or Oscar who have been vital for their national teams. And let's not forget that both those player hold a much more contested position than the one Van Ginkel aims to get. Let's be fair, the dutch while still have a quality side aren't as much quality as they used to and are in sort of transition period. Only a few of their top players from the earlier cups are part of it (remember how well they did?) with only Robben, Huntelaar and RVP being really in form and top class players and those being focused almost exclusively in the attacking part. Sure central midfield isn't in such bad shape as their defence currently is, but still. Strootman has the preference and he is more comparable to the level of players were talking about, Clasie and Deguzman also seem to be higher in the hierarchy. Both decent players for an international squad, but no more than that.

[Magic Lamps 11,451]

Hyjack Paulinho's move to Tottenham and get Luis Gustavo (who fell behind Martinez in the pecking order), then our pivot is sorted

Speaking of Martinez it's painful watching him knowing just how perfect he will be for us.

De Rossi fits us even better, Martinez is probably the slowest player on the planet.

I hope we rather loan MvG back to Vitesse or so. He will not find enough playing time cos he is still way behind any of Oscar, Lampard, Ramires.

[Blue Gino 377]

I wouldn't be concerned about Chalobah, I think he's the future defensive mid of the team, MVG is a great signing and imo keeps Lampard glued to the bench a majority of the season. There's room for Chalobah and RLC to make an impact eventually because of FFP. They HAVE to start bleeding Chelsea youth into the first team they have no choice but to.

[Moros 86]

De Rossi fits us even better, Martinez is probably the slowest player on the planet.

I hope we rather loan MvG back to Vitesse or so. He will not find enough playing time cos he is still way behind any of Oscar, Lampard, Ramires.

I'd rather hope a smaller BPL or Bundesliga team. The step from the Dutch league to the English one is rather big especially to a team of Chelsea's quality. Let's give him a step up. Why not Werder Bremen again for example?

[communicate 2,703]

Hyjack Paulinho's move to Tottenham and get Luis Gustavo (who fell behind Martinez in the pecking order), then our pivot is sorted

Speaking of Martinez it's painful watching him knowing just how perfect he will be for us.

I thought bayern overpayed for him last year. 40m euro for dm. But he has proved me wrong, not only he is the perfect mid for bayern. But all around midfield is just rare this day.

[The Skipper 20,593]

If he does stay he'll pleasantly surprise a few of you with the maturity in his game.

[Heisenberg 1,824]

If he does stay he'll pleasantly surprise a few of you with the maturity in his game.

Why José would convince a young player to come if he wont play him ?

[Vybz Kartel 1,613]

Not a big fan of the signing considering he offers almost the same qualities as Josh, Nath, RLC to name but a few we should seriously start giving our youths more chances instead of wasting their talents.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Not a big fan of the signing considering he offers almost the same qualities as Josh, Nath, RLC to name but a few we should seriously start giving our youths more chances instead of wasting their talents.

Josh Is overrated same with Nate.

RLC is a completely different player and is a year or two away from the first team.

[Strike 6,964]

Why José would convince a young player to come if he wont play him ?

Nothing wrong in questioning it. He has under-used youngsters before. At Chelsea, it could be argued that he had no quality youngsters but There were many young players in Inter who did not get a chance under him. Arnautovic, Bonucci. Same with Real - Canales, Sahin.. the list is longer. Probably Varane is the only youngster he has used extensively

[Funkyflashman 187]

Nothing wrong in questioning it. He has under-used youngsters before. At Chelsea, it could be argued that he had no quality youngsters but There were many young players in Inter who did not get a chance under him. Arnautovic, Bonucci. Same with Real - Canales, Sahin.. the list is longer. Probably Varane is the only youngster he has used extensively

Porto - Hugo Almeida and Bruno Morais were 19. Hugo Luz and Helder Postiga were 20, both costas and Bosingwa were 21. All first team.

Chelsea - Robben was 20, Cech and Joe Cole were 21, Kalou played at 18

Inter - Blooded Balotelli, Santon and Destro

Madrid - You could conceivably argue (I certainly will) that he developed Ozil, Khedira, Di maria, Varane, Callejon.

[Funkyflashman 187]

[Strike 6,964]

Porto - Hugo Almeida and Bruno Morais were 19. Hugo Luz and Helder Postiga were 20, both costas and Bosingwa were 21. All first team.

Chelsea - Robben was 20, Cech and Joe Cole were 21, Kalou played at 18

Inter - Blooded Balotelli, Santon and Destro

Madrid - You could conceivably argue (I certainly will) that he developed Ozil, Khedira, Di maria, Varane, Callejon.

mostly fair examples but. some of the examples - Robben Ozil, di Maria balotelli, varane are more of break-out youngsters than van ginkel.

. there are examples where he's used youngsters yes but there are a fair few he hasn't used as well. nothing wrong in questioning Jose's transfers

[The Rising Sun 696]

Van Ginkel needs a PL loan like Lukaku, in a team which really needs a midfielder.

I dont see the point in loaning him out abroad.

[Styles 9,790]

Van Ginkel needs a PL loan like Lukaku, in a team which really needs a midfielder.

I dont see the point in loaning him out abroad.

He doesn't need a loan. He has played more than a 100 games in a good league. Ginkel is not some untested 18 year old from Chelsea's reserves, he's a promising talent that has featured for his national team. Oscar came at 20 from Brazil with no European experience and performed well.