Closed Chelsea 5-4 Manchester United (AET)

[Fulham Broadway 16,425]

Hmm you have taken out of context. He said both players CFC and MU.

What he was saying look after yourselves and cold be doing that at 39...

Think he was quite good in his interview TBH

Good. He takes everything out of context, and is worse than Wenger for selective match incidents.

Cant stand the ref fixing fucker.

Although the three points on Sunday would have been better, tonights bit of instant retribution was sweet

[Jase 43,479]

Here is the match highlights from BBC if anyone is interested.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xur3ne_chelsea-vs-manchester-united-5-4-extended-match-highlights_sport#from=embed

[Rmpr 8,977]

I agree that our defensive problems are more systemic than talent-based. Here are what I think are the issues.

1) Our lack of width.

Problem 1) If the opposition has any width, they will always outnumber us on the wings, leaving Cole or Ivanovic in odd-man situations

Problem 2). Because we have no width in attack, Cole and Ivanovich have to get up the field to attack. This leaves us incredibly vulnerable to counter-attacks

2) Our attackers don't track back enough.

3) What style do we play defensively? Are we a pressing team? We have some players that press and others that play positional defense. Oscar and Ramires seem to be pressing all the time but they also get beaten more than any of our other players (because they are so aggressive, they also tackle more than any of our players) and some of that is because you need to press as a team to creature pressure on their ball-handlers.Otherwise, you get dribbled past too often (in the last 4 games, we;ve been outdribbled in every one for a total of 43-28). To press effectively, you can't just have one or two players pressing.

4) A defensive general. Even though Terry is not an elite defender anymore, he provides vocal leadership that the back line seems to need. He is always communicating with the other defenders. Without Terry, there have been a number of plays where Chelsea defenders don't communicate properly.

5) Mental mistakes. Made a lot of these recently.

As for the double-pivot, I disagree. It's not that I think that Ramires and Mikel aren't playing well at all. It's just that we're not getting what we should be getting out of the double pivot. Ramires is a very good player, he's not the right kind of player for that position. We need someone who will be able to open up play with incisive passes. Who will be able to switch play from side to side. What Oscar did tonight when he came on, setting up attacks with long passes, with through-balls , with vision, while being solid defensively, that is what a pivot should do. Ramires either gets the ball and he makes a short pass to Oscar or Mata who then set up the play or he runs the ball up to an attacking player and hands it off. He's never going to be able to control the temp of the game. He's never going to hit the long ball over the top or the perfect sideline pass. That's just something we need long-term either from Oscar or from a central midfielder we buy..

1) 100% true. I do think it can be resolved without changing the starting lineup. As I said, if you have the attackers pressuring the opposition ball-handlers, it slows them down, which gives our team time to track back. Barcelona does it very often with Jordi Alba and Dani Alves, but everyone must be fully commited.

2) It is not so much about tracking back. They dont necessarily need to return behing half the pitch. What they actually need is to participate in our defense system, to be honest. Hazard, Mata, Torres and Sturridge simply dont do it.

3) It is a big question. Does RDM really know? I personally believe only a pressure mentality will allow us to have such attacked minded players with a reasonably decent defense. You did made a huge point, it has to be imprinted in our players: it only works if everyone helps. Corinthians does it very well, but every single players gives 100% on it.

4) It comes with experience and naturality, it will eventually appear (besides JT). You actually openned my mind, this might the worst issue. Have no idea how to fix it though...

5) Not really a big issue, it is happening because of our bad form. Once we get our form back, it wont happen as much.

6) I respect you, but I disagree with the double pivot. Rambo and Mikel are, for me, the ideal duo. In a standard pivot, it is of vital importance the qualities you have mentioned. Although, we do not use a standard 4-2-3-1. We actually dont have wingers and a "behind the striker" working together, they are all 10s. With wingers, they do not provide extremely good passing vison (you need passing pivots), we have that. What our pivots need to do is control the midfield (possetion, marking, speed, etc), and they are doing it.

I honestly think you have a very good vision on what is necessary, really liked your post.

[Spike 12,049]

Snip

I'm not sure if you'll agree with me but when Moses is playing the team just seems to flow a lot more smoothly. Moses is a natural wide outlet for the team, much like Antonio Valencia is for ManUtd. Dragging fullbacks outwide, running behind fullbacks, crossing the ball, harassing fullbacks with aggressive pressing are just a few of the tactical options Moses brings to the team. He isn't the most productive playing terms of assists and goals but he does bring attributes that Hazard, Mata and Oscar lack. With HMO essentially three 10s are playing and while they are completely different players in terms of style and ability they are in the same 'mold'. With Moses two 10s and one winger is played giving slightly more variety to the attack.

Moses is quite an interesting player, I don't believe he is capable of playing through the middle like Hazard, Mata and Oscar but he seems to be able to play with ease on both wings which is boon for tactical sake. But including Moses into the starting XI raises a dilemma: who is dropped? I can't in all honestly create any reasons why Hazard, Mata or Oscar should be dropped, it's just not in the realm of sanity.

I'd try to elaborate my points further but my right hand is really starting to cramp.

[Jase 43,479]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY4aKwOI77Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtl5qpZGyao&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH0iDcK1JWw&feature=context-cha

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

6) I respect you, but I disagree with the double pivot. Rambo and Mikel are, for me, the ideal duo. In a standard pivot, it is of vital importance the qualities you have mentioned. Although, we do not use a standard 4-2-3-1. We actually dont have wingers and a "behind the striker" working together, they are all 10s. With wingers, they do not provide extremely good passing vison (you need passing pivots), we have that. What our pivots need to do is control the midfield (possetion, marking, speed, etc), and they are doing it.

I honestly think you have a very good vision on what is necessary, really liked your post.

It's true, in the current system having two central midfielders makes some sense. However, I think we need to move long-term to add a winger to the front three. I can see Moses being that guy. Right now, we are too predictable in our attack and it is only through the incredible skill of Mata, Oscar, and Hazard that the system is able to work. Long term, against top teams, we'll need to be better tactically. My preference would be to move Oscar back into the double pivot. I understand why some would be reluctant to do that because it would take away some of Oscar's game, but I also think it takes advantage of him and is great for the team. There is such an unbelievable dearth of regista-type players in football today. Who's the best one in the Premier league? Arteta? Scholes? How many top ones are there in world football? Pirlo, Xavi, Alonso,and then?? It's a very tough spot to fill. To be able to take a guy and say "here is our midfield general for the next decade" would be incredible and provide long-term stability to the team.

BTW, your post is what I like about the forum. People who I disagree with, who provide alternate viewpoints intelligently and without hatred seething from every line. Informed debate is just the best.

[Reddish-Blue 2,232]

It's true, in the current system having two central midfielders makes some sense. However, I think we need to move long-term to add a winger to the front three. I can see Moses being that guy. Right now, we are too predictable in our attack and it is only through the incredible skill of Mata, Oscar, and Hazard that the system is able to work. Long term, against top teams, we'll need to be better tactically. My preference would be to move Oscar back into the double pivot. I understand why some would be reluctant to do that because it would take away some of Oscar's game, but I also think it takes advantage of him and is great for the team. There is such an unbelievable dearth of regista-type players in football today. Who's the best one in the Premier league? Arteta? Scholes? How many top ones are there in world football? Pirlo, Xavi, Alonso,and then?? It's a very tough spot to fill. To be able to take a guy and say "here is our midfield general for the next decade" would be incredible and provide long-term stability to the team.

BTW, your post is what I like about the forum. People who I disagree with, who provide alternate viewpoints intelligently and without hatred seething from every line. Informed debate is just the best.

I'd like to see De Bruyne in the double pivot next season, before we move Oscar back.

[Stingray 9,441]

Loved the end of the game!

[Stingray 9,441]

fuck you Fergie :-)

[jmarlow 458]

I loved Rami's and Hazard celebrations it really showed their passion and how much they love the club.

[Milan 17,836]

Three times being down by a goal, three times came back and then hit in the extra time. The passion and heart of this club is fantastic! Young hunger I'd say.

Moses and Azpilicueta? Brilliant. Victor was direct exactly how we need him to be and Cesar did a great job, actually I'd prefer him to Ivanovic right now.

Beating them in this way is miles better then beating them 3-1 for example. Of course, the extra time was difficult for some players that will play on Saturday but Man United thought thry are through and look what happened.

[Milan 17,836]

[Stats 6,988]

Cesar looked sold at RB last night. Had a good tussle with Welbeck and I think I saw enough in Oscar to show that he can be a future star in the double pivot role. Absolutely controlled the game when he came on and happy for Moses. Put in a performance of the highest quality and surely will be itching for a start on Saturday.

[NiclasCFC 2,582]

Here is the match highlights from BBC if anyone is interested.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xur3ne_chelsea-vs-manchester-united-5-4-extended-match-highlights_sport#from=embed

That was orgasmic... Thank you!

[Milan 17,836]

[Jase 43,479]

And this.

[Muzchap 8,966]

Ok let me try and sum this up, next morning and all that...

I absolutely LOVE our never say die attitude, who would have thought the influx of new players would have allowed this attitude to continue, it's absolutely amazing!

This is still a new team, imagine what they will be like in a few seasons!

Now defence - really, really, really concerned.

We just need to work harder and be more focused, BUT we are in transition, so cannot expect perfection immediately.

I was harsh on Luiz, but I can only reflect on what I personally see - and he needs to sharpen up.

We definitely need another world class defender for when JT retires.

Apart from that, I'm happy, we have true grit and determination, from players we were told would be too lightweight

Way to rip up the rule book!

Now lets beat Swansea, win the World Club Cup and Capital One Cup - Arsenal look the only real threat...

[HNKS 508]

Honestly we need a striker. Torres and Sturridge just arent good enough. We wont win the league because we just arent clinical enough. We had over 20 attempts on goal. And Sturridge was woeful. Tripping over his own feet and shooting from the byline. Idiot.