🇧🇷 Oscar

[The only place to be 11,313]

And that's something people can't get into their heads. If we played with the same freedom, and with a lack of rigidity, Hazard would be playing even better, Oscar would be a world-beater, and Mata would be playing as well as last season. But we'd also probably be about 5th, because we wouldn't be able to cope - stylistically - with the Arsenals, Citys and Liverpools of this league, who can outplay us offensively. Our greatest strength, believe it or not, is our defensive prowess as a unit. That's why we're so damned hard to beat.

So many times when Mata was playing over the last couple of seasons our team looked like a defence and attack with very few joins between the two. Now we're much more compact and rather than playing as a back 6 and a front 4, it's a solid unit of 10 players all working together.

That's why it's a misnomer to talk about Oscar tracking back because more than anything it's the pressing that the whole team does that he's integral too. Every player has to do their job otherwise there are gaps for the opposition to exploit and whenever Mata has played gaps just appear (Newcastle away was the worst one). Then when we're in possession he just seems slower than everyone else. There's no dynamism in his play which could be down to not playing but having said that he's never been a Willian or Hazard type with the ball at his feet.

Honestly, if he wasn't already one of our players then I don't think anyone would think his style would suit us. I think we'd benefit more from a more conventional left-footed, right winger like Angel Di Maria or even Hulk.

[pgleo 90]

A lot of our own supporters and fans waiting for Oscar to have a bad game and have a go at him everytime. Oscar having an average game makes him the worst player on the planet while Mata with the same performance will be hailed for trying to cope with Mourinho's style. Also when Oscar has a very good game, people don't give him enough credit. He will probably never get 35 assists and 20 goals a season but he's young and a vital part of our team and certainly doesn't deserve the sticks he's getting.

[Sheva. 5,373]

A lot of our own supporters and fans waiting for Oscar to have a bad game and have a go at him everytime. Oscar having an average game makes him the worst player on the planet while Mata with the same performance will be hailed for trying to cope with Mourinho's style. Also when Oscar has a very good game, people don't give him enough credit. He will probably never get 35 assists and 20 goals a season but he's young and a vital part of our team and certainly doesn't deserve the sticks he's getting.

He's turning into Mikel 2.0

[Jase 43,479]

Ultimately he just looks slow and less dynamic than the other options.

Not disagreeing at all but think a more accurate and perhaps fair description of Mata would be that he isn't the quickest of players and certain less dynamic compared to the othrs.

[Korea 734]

It's not that Mata doesnt track back, its that hes just not good at it...

One thing I realized yesterday though was when Oscar got subbed out for Mikel, Chelsea stop pressing.

Also, after Eto first goal, he went straight to Mourinho and Im pretty sure Mourinho gave him direct instructions to dropped back to help possession, since the brazilian combo wasnt doing a good job at it....

To be fair, Oscar and Willian are both being ask to play defensive roles in the cam position. However, in the future, with proper cms, I think less of the defensive focus/work will be on them and more on the CMs, etc.

[DDA 9,941]

Why? When Barca's game is dependent on every member of the team pressing, they are lauded and rightly so. Why on Earth should this aspect of our game not be celebrated?

Again, why? How is it not sustainable - it's a football tactic not a fucking rainforest. In fact isn't tactical stability something we've been looking for for years? Isn't that part of Jose's remit? Why on Earth can't all our age group teams adopt similar tactics in order to ease the progression of young players into the first team?

Oscar isn't used purely for his defensive qualities. Don't forget that he's still a young player. He's not the finished article yet and is still growing, but he's clearly improving with time.

Why? When Barca's game is dependent on every member of the team pressing, they are lauded and rightly so. Why on Earth should this aspect of our game not be celebrated?

Again, why? How is it not sustainable - it's a football tactic not a fucking rainforest. In fact isn't tactical stability something we've been looking for for years? Isn't that part of Jose's remit? Why on Earth can't all our age group teams adopt similar tactics in order to ease the progression of young players into the first team?

Oscar isn't used purely for his defensive qualities. Don't forget that he's still a young player. He's not the finished article yet and is still growing, but he's clearly improving with time.

That was wrong of me to say thay Oscar iis used purely for his defensive abilities but... Jose is using him at Cam rather than Juan for that very reason. We all know Mata is better on the ball, whereas Oscar is superior off it. So I hope Oscar does improve his passing game to that of the level Juans passing game is. Then we wil have the complete cam.

[Barbara 15,149]

There are a couple of issues I have here and I'm still trying make sense of it, so it might be a bit disjointed. I think there are both pluses & minuses to Oscar's presence in this team. He is extremely vital to our defensive stability and he's a significant factor to why we've been incredibly rock solid recently, but my worry is that Oscar's contributions to our defensive structure might be papering over the cracks. The fact that the team's defensive organization is so dependant on an attacking midfielder is really not something that I think should lauded or celebrated. To me, that doesn't signify a method that's sustainable or something that's a long term solution.

I'm actually very interested to see what the team would look like next season because right now I think Mourinho is just doing whatever he can to get this team competitive in the league again. I suspect we'll see a lot of changes next season and possibly, a change in Oscar's role.

Why? When Barca's game is dependent on every member of the team pressing, they are lauded and rightly so. Why on Earth should this aspect of our game not be celebrated?

Again, why? How is it not sustainable - it's a football tactic not a fucking rainforest. In fact isn't tactical stability something we've been looking for for years? Isn't that part of Jose's remit? Why on Earth can't all our age group teams adopt similar tactics in order to ease the progression of young players into the first team?

Oscar isn't used purely for his defensive qualities. Don't forget that he's still a young player. He's not the finished article yet and is still growing, but he's clearly improving with time.

somehow I agree with both of you (with Dee partially and with TOPTB completely(, even though you seem to disagree with one another

I was watching the match with friends (YAY) and we were talking about Oscar and comparing him to the player in Brazil (not the NT, but at Inter and even Sao Paulo). We also talked about him in the youth NT. I think he's still struggling a bit to find his balance as I told in my initial post.

He will never be as creative as Mata and he doesn't have such a powerful, unpredictable, quality pass, but he can do better offensively and I'm sure with time he will. He's already better this season in that aspect than last season, I think from next season on we'll really see him on his full potential (not reaching his ceiling, but playing at his best possible level, without the struggles, and then he'll continue to grow as a player).

I feel he offers tactically (and that's not only defensively) a lot. I was commentating with my friends at the pub that at mark 80+ we just didn't hold the ball and wasted time. With Oscar in the team we do that. He knows (like Lamps also knows and does) that 10-15 minutes to the end of the match when you have 2 goals difference, it's time to waste time with the ball and try not to attack as risky as earlier in the match. This has nothing with defensiveness and I'm not saying Mata wouldn't do the same, I'm talking about Oscar alone. He reads well the game, the moments of the match and he normally goes for what we need. He just need to be sharper and more incisive more consistently. I still think it's just that his game isn't as mature yet as his attitude (he's still only 22, recently turned btw) and a bit of struggle to the style of English football. I think the style demands a lot more than he - or any Brazilian - is used too. So while he tries to adapt to the tactics the manager has, to help his mates in the pitch, to show his style and quality, he simply can't play his best yet because he's still finding his place and his feet. This boy was out of his mind at the Brazil Youth NT and for a while at Inter (and even some moments at Sao Paulo). I expect him to really blossom from next season on. Oscar will never be a Hazard or a Mata offensively, but I'm positive he can (and will) be much more than he's showing.

My point at the end of the day was that Mourinho finally found his team, and for those players to be benched now they'll have to have a few really bad matches in a row. Oscar didn't have really bad matches in a row. He's had a couple of quiet matches, but still working his socks and giving us some stability. I don't see why Mourinho would drop any of his starting 11 (maybe except Luiz who's playing out of position, especially with Matic around) if they have a couple of bad (or quiet) matches. People were screaming and barking at Mourinho in his thread last month to give starting eleven stability, saying one of our problems were the constant rotating. Now that he finally has his 11 players, people want them to be dropped because of a pair of unimpressive (still not bad imo) matches... It's hard to understand this reasoning.

[zolayes 14,489]

barb ... please remember Oscar is still VERY young ,,,actually to me Giggs is young .. IMO Oscar is unbeliablly mature in his play /

Barring injury he is going to be one of the SPECIAL ones .. and when Luiz matures he will be as well ..

counting Oscar ,,, Luiz ,, Hazard and Willian ,,, OMG

[Barbara 15,149]

barb ... please remember Oscar is still VERY young ,,,actually to me Giggs is young .. IMO Oscar is unbeliablly mature in his play /

Barring injury he is going to be one of the SPECIAL ones .. and when Luiz matures he will be as well ..

counting Oscar ,,, Luiz ,, Hazard and Willian ,,, OMG

Oh, Ron, I think he's already mature in many aspects, but his game can still mature more. That's what I meant. The boy behaves like a man all the time, his seriousness, his dedication, his discipline and the way he simply steps up, it's amazing. I just meant the technical aspect. He's still at least half-way in his development curve, so there's a lot for his game to mature. I'll edit my previous post to make it clear I meant his game, not him.

[Term-X 7,891]

There are two types of football fans, the Chelsea fans that still pine for a 'Zola', that one player we can look to and romanticise about. Then there's the fans of teams (units), i.e the sane ones...

[Styles 9,790]

I think some people are finally starting to see exactly what kind of player Oscar is (they're incredibly late btw, he's been here for 18 months) and they're unhappy that he isn't the super-silky, tricky Brazilian player they thought he was. No, in fact it turns out he's a very good all-round footballer, tactically aware, hard-working player and that doesn't fit their idea of a #10. They prefer a #10 who is really good at playing through balls and creating chances. It's a matter of preference.

I'm very happy with Oscar personally and believe he will get better at creating for others. He's too good and smart not to, and what's he's contributing to the team now is more than good enough.

[manpe 10,861]

Oscar is the same age as me. I have failed at life

[bluesman2610 1,417]

Oscar in the team with Hazard and Willian and we are 2 points off the top.. I have no complaints even if he had an average game against United.. Its about what a player brings to the team and how a team performs with said player and if our results are any indication Oscar is doing very well for himself..

Also I feel we have now three balanced attackers contributing to the goals and assists unlike the last 3 seasons when we had only Mata to take over a game and if he didn't play well we were shite.. I don't think Oscar was his downfall it was the rise of other attackers to be match winners that all fit together that has really hurt Mata in terms of chances on the pitch

[borriske 330]

Funny comparing the 'oscar vs mata' debate here with the one in the mata thread. Over there it's like all hell has broken loose

[bluesman2610 1,417]

Funny comparing the 'oscar vs mata' debate here with the one in the mata thread. Over there it's like all hell has broken loose

Oscar wasn't 2 time POTY that the main reason it is Armageddon in Mata thread

[Cech's helmet 220]

I think some people are finally starting to see exactly what kind of player Oscar is (they're incredibly late btw, he's been here for 18 months) and they're unhappy that he isn't the super-silky, tricky Brazilian player they thought he was. No, in fact it turns out he's a very good all-round footballer, tactically aware, hard-working player and that doesn't fit their idea of a #10. They prefer a #10 who is really good at playing through balls and creating chances. It's a matter of preference.

I'm very happy with Oscar personally and believe he will get better at creating for others. He's too good and smart not to, and what's he's contributing to the team now is more than good enough.

It's not preference. it's common sense.

A no10 is a player who creates chances, makes the team ticking. link up play, not waste his energy chasing full backs and center backs.. like you said he's an all round player who can tackle, so it's no rocket science he should be playing in CM along with Rami while the more technically gifted player to play as a no10 (Mata)

[Stingray 9,441]

I think some people are finally starting to see exactly what kind of player Oscar is (they're incredibly late btw, he's been here for 18 months) and they're unhappy that he isn't the super-silky, tricky Brazilian player they thought he was. No, in fact it turns out he's a very good all-round footballer, tactically aware, hard-working player and that doesn't fit their idea of a #10. They prefer a #10 who is really good at playing through balls and creating chances. It's a matter of preference.

I'm very happy with Oscar personally and believe he will get better at creating for others. He's too good and smart not to, and what's he's contributing to the team now is more than good enough.

It's not preference. it's common sense.

A no10 is a player who creates chances, makes the team ticking. link up play, not waste his energy chasing full backs and center backs.. like you said he's an all round player who can tackle, so it's no rocket science he should be playing in CM along with Rami while the more technically gifted player to play as a no10 (Mata)

Or even Eden filling in as a 10 as he is doing more these days in practice while Oscar drops more and Willian goes wide more while adding movement. It equates, balances. But I do think a creative force needs to come from the attacking third central ....

[Ainsley Harriott 2,732]

I think some people are finally starting to see exactly what kind of player Oscar is (they're incredibly late btw, he's been here for 18 months) and they're unhappy that he isn't the super-silky, tricky Brazilian player they thought he was. No, in fact it turns out he's a very good all-round footballer, tactically aware, hard-working player and that doesn't fit their idea of a #10. They prefer a #10 who is really good at playing through balls and creating chances. It's a matter of preference.

I'm very happy with Oscar personally and believe he will get better at creating for others. He's too good and smart not to, and what's he's contributing to the team now is more than good enough.

This. He's a jack of all trades, master of none (if you exclude tackling). Incredibly balanced and smart footballer. He's hard to appreciate if you don't pay close attention to him though, which fits with that part of not being the typical flashy brazilian you said. I love his style of play.

[Roquila 1,335]

Why are people here comparing Oscar with Mata and jumpin on either bandwagons? HELL, they both play for Chelsea goddamnit. It's not like One plays for us and the other one plays for Spurs.

[yuvala 2,167]

I haven't really made up my mind about Oscar yet..

Lately he has been hit and miss. He can be very involved, winning balls back, creating chances, shooting on target.. and then the next game his shots suck, he loses possesion, doesn't get nearly as involved as he should.

When he has a good game we look really good, but he's missing consistency IMO.