TorontoChelsea 4,064 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Mata - Hazard - OscarMikel - RamiresWould work IMO, simply due to the fact that Oscar likes to drop in deep. This frees up Ramires a lot more.You don't have to play 2 DM's in the pivot necessarily. That would be counter productive, and it's why Ramires and Mikel can work - Mikel sits back, Ramires joins up the attack, Ramires sits back, Mikel goes forward to provide an outlet for the attack. That's what a pivot is.Ramires is a B2B midfielder at his finest, and a B2B midfielder joined up with a technically decent DM (Mikel) could work well. Ramires is the energy in midfield whilst Mikel is the outlet, with Oscar dropping deep from the right (which will allow Ramires to surge up on the right and go on one of his trademark off the ball runs with his pace) whilst Hazard provides the penetration alongside Ramires, which can then free up Mata in a free roaming role to organise attacks.If RDM finds a way to marry the six of Torres, Mata, Hazard, Oscar, Mikel and Ramires our team could potentially be unplayable.It won't work. You need Lampard or someone else creative there to create otherwise Oscar would have to drop way deep and would essentially put himself out of the attack. In the 4-2-3-1, you absolutely have to have a creative bridge between the defenders and the forwards. You need that player to be a link-up otherwise the system just doesn't work which is why every team that deploys. The position is not simply about joining up with the attack, it's about creating opportunities and if Chelsea rely on Ramires and Mikel to start the attack, it's going to sputter.The other thing is that in this system, Ramires makes no sense as a regular starter. If Chelsea want to play ball-control and passing build-up, having a player who is essentially a counter-attack player is a waste. Counter-attack is a game of runs so someone like Ramires whose main attributes are speed and stamina, is incredible. The possession/passing sort of game there are very few runs in space, so you're taking away Ramires' number one strength. He's not a creative player and his passing game is very limited, and he's not a real DM either. He could be a super sub at about five different positions and still will likely be a pivotal player for us this season, but his game is really a poor fit for the direction Chelsea seem to be moving in. Peace. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royg 96 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 My only problem with him is he falls down often with those slight nudges, i hope he wont be branded as a diver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CL Luci 2 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 In the pre-season he have good and bad moments, my preference is Marin, but maybe in match with Man. City to the end, I `m gonna like both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Skipper 20,609 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 It won't work. You need Lampard or someone else creative there to create otherwise Oscar would have to drop way deep and would essentially put himself out of the attack. In the 4-2-3-1, you absolutely have to have a creative bridge between the defenders and the forwards. You need that player to be a link-up otherwise the system just doesn't work which is why every team that deploys. The position is not simply about joining up with the attack, it's about creating opportunities and if Chelsea rely on Ramires and Mikel to start the attack, it's going to sputter.Thing is, we won't be relying on Ramires and Mikel to start the attacks that often. Like I said, as Oscar likes to drop in deep a lot anyway, we'd still have someone to link up play. I believe Mata has the capability to do the same thing. I know it sacrifices their play in the final third but it gives them the opportunity to seek out Ramires, Hazard, one of Oscar or Mata and whoever's upfront alongside with Mikel, who has the capabilities to link up play as well in my opinion. What I want is for Mikel to step up and improve his link play in order to compensate for Ramires' inability to link play effectively. I believe he has it in his locker. The other thing is that in this system, Ramires makes no sense as a regular starter. If Chelsea want to play ball-control and passing build-up, having a player who is essentially a counter-attack player is a waste. Counter-attack is a game of runs so someone like Ramires whose main attributes are speed and stamina, is incredible. The possession/passing sort of game there are very few runs in space, so you're taking away Ramires' number one strength. He's not a creative player and his passing game is very limited, and he's not a real DM either. He could be a super sub at about five different positions and still will likely be a pivotal player for us this season, but his game is really a poor fit for the direction Chelsea seem to be moving in.What has to be remembered is that we're not going to strictly stick to one playing style next season. There has to be variety in our game. We can't always play a possession based game and then miss out on a counter attacking opportunity or a long ball opportunity. Many are under rating Ramires' passing play. Although it isn't as reassuring as others it's still adequate enough to allow him to do a decent job. Ramires will bring energy, pace and heart to the midfield, he wouldn't necessarily be a DM in the pivot, as I've explained before your pivot doesn't have to consist of two DM's all the time. He'd be a B2B midfielder, where he's at his best - joining in at attack, and helping defensively. Bayern Munich have someone similar as Ramires in Luiz Gustavo. He wins the ball back for them, lays it off to Schweinsteiger, Kroos, Ribery or Robben. Ramires could do the same job for us as he is pretty accomplished defensively. It'd be hard to implement but I believe that if RDM can pull it off we'd have a really dangerous team on all fronts. If he manages to marry a front six of Torres, Mata, Hazard, Oscar, Mikel and Ramires then he'd have done a superb job. Of course during games where possession is more essential and is less dispensable, perhaps then Lampard could come in and provide the team a little bit of an edge in that aspect. It's a conundrum but it is just my opinion that we need to find a way of playing our best players, and Ramires is certainly one of them. manpe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whinni09 37 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 My only problem with him is he falls down often with those slight nudges, i hope he wont be branded as a diver.The reason why he falls down from those slight nudges is because he has such high speed and fast feets when he's running. It's nearly impossible to continue to stand up when you get those tackles on the upper body. I myself have a pretty similar style of play and for me it's nearly impossible, but it can also be to your advantage if the referee really knows how difficult it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xPetrCechx 13,570 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1chelsea 864 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Hazard is off to a flyer in a Chelsea shirt check out the video i made of him so farhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK73HfPpoZo can't see the video you are talking about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 In the pre-season he have good and bad moments, my preference is Marin, but maybe in match with Man. City to the end, I `m gonna like both of them.Marin over Hazard? LOL Belgiannutt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Matt Spiro, a Ligue 1 expert, with views on Hazard, both Eden and Thorgan and other new French arrivals in the Premier League.http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/overseas-arrivals-1-french-footballs-finest.htmlEden Hazard (Chelsea)How good is Eden Hazard?Spiro: He won Player of the Year two years running, he won the Young Player of the Year two years running before that and we’ve known about him since he made his debut at 16. He was a regular at 17 and it was really obvious that he was an exceptional talent.So he has the talent to succeed in the Premier League?Spiro: He has outgrown the French league and he needs more of a challenge to get the best out of himself. There are times when he hasn't been as effective as he could and he's very self-assured but I think that is a positive because he won’t be worried about sharing a dressing room with big stars.Will he cope with the physicality of the Premier League?Where does he play?Spiro: In his first few seasons he played on the left side of attack in a 4-3-3 but last season he was given a more central playmaker role and did very well in that position. He's two-footed, quick off the mark, and can go past people very easily. He's got a footballing brain and he can pick passes.Will he cope with the physicality of the Premier League?Spiro: He's not a big guy but he's toughened up and he no longer gets knocked off the ball. He's happy to get stuck in. He’s always the most fouled player in France by a long way yet he’s remained relatively injury free.Thorgan Hazard (Chelsea)What can you tell us about Eden's younger brother?Spiro: He is seen as a talented young player but he's never been regarded as a precocious player like Eden so this looks like a signing to help his brother. Whether Thorgan will be loaned out or not I don't know but I think it's too soon for him to be playing regular football for Chelsea.Where does he play?Spiro: He's an attacking midfielder. Not in the same class as Eden but he was playing second division football last season and he is relatively inexperienced. Eden's side Lille were playing Champions League football last year and have been competing for titles over the last few years, whereas Lens have a very good academy but they are a club that have to sell players in order to survive. So this is a massive step up for ThorganWhich of the above will take the Barclays Premier League by storm?Spiro: Of the above Olivier Giroud and Eden Hazard stand the greatest chance of impressing and, as the price tag would suggest, I think Hazard will be the biggest success.Do you think he will hit the ground running?Spiro: It might take him time to settle in but I think Chelsea will give him time if the first month or two don't go smoothly. In the last three or four months of last season he was almost unplayable. I can see Giroud doing well but in my opinion Hazard will be one of the top three or four standout performers in the Premier League.. Term-X, Jose M and Sheva. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Hazard in an interview with Four Four Two.http://fourfourtwo.com/news/england/105923/default.aspxChelsea new boy Eden Hazard is aiming to build on the club's successes of last season and bring more trophies to Stamford Bridge.Roberto Di Matteo's side won the FA Cup and Champions League last term, thanks to victories over Liverpool and Bayern Munich respectively.Speaking exclusively to FourFourTwo, 21-year-old Hazard explained that Chelsea's Champions League victory in Munich played a big part in his decision to move to West London from Lille, where he won the French title in 2011."I wanted to join Chelsea because it is a big club," Hazard said. "They won the Champions League. I want to be part of that.""[Joining Chelsea] has been a great experience. This is a wonderful club and I want to do well with them. There is so much we can do. I think we can win a lot this season."The Blues will be looking to retain their European crown in 2012/13, but Hazard said there are many tough obstacles standing between the West Londoners and glory at Wembley next May.Although Chelsea overcame Spanish giants Barcelona in last season's semi-final, Hazard insisted they are still one of the teams to beat."There are many teams to look out for," he explained. "Barcelona has dominated the tournament recently, not to mention the need to keep an eye on the other English teams like Manchester United and Manchester City."Hazard has been joined at Stamford Bridge by German playmaker Marko Marin and Brazilian starlet Oscar, and will also battle for a first-team spot with the likes of Juan Mata, Ramires and Frank Lampard.But the Belgian is confident his versatility can help give him the edge in the battle for a regular place in the Chelsea side."I can play in the middle as an attacking midfielder or on the wings. I will play wherever the manager plays me." Sheva. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santiago. 1,500 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Mata----------------Ramires-----------Hazard---------------Oscar------------------------------------------Mikel--------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic! 301 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Don't know why everybody puts Oscar in their 'top' 11 already. He hasn't played a game for Chelsea so far... blue_everest, TorontoChelsea and CHOULO19 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Skipper 20,609 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Don't know why everybody puts Oscar in their 'top' 11 already. He hasn't played a game for Chelsea so far...Isn't he a CFC player though? I think people have the right to. We're not not going to play a guy who we've bought for £25m, who's already starting for Brazil. Oscar has a very good chance at starting as soon as he gets back from the Olympics. Arief 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHOULO19 24,332 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Don't know why everybody puts Oscar in their 'top' 11 already. He hasn't played a game for Chelsea so far...Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheva. 5,373 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 "I will play wherever the manager plays me"Oscar said the same also, good to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severinb 309 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Isn't he a CFC player though? I think people have the right to. We're not not going to play a guy who we've bought for £25m, who's already starting for Brazil. Oscar has a very good chance at starting as soon as he gets back from the Olympics.We paid 25mil € !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutcho 8,443 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Mata----------------Ramires-----------Hazard---------------Oscar------------------------------------------Mikel---------Why Ramires at RW/RAM? Seen him there many times and it definately isn't his best spot.... Would rather:Mata Oscar Hazard Lampard MikelAnd i expect him to start, because the alternative is Ramires at CAM or someone like Raul Merieles... Unless we Buy Hulk or someone else then i think he will be in there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zolayes 14,489 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Don't know why everybody puts Oscar in their 'top' 11 already. He hasn't played a game for Chelsea so far...if you can't work out that for yourself I wont bother to explain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustafa 885 Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Why Ramires at RW/RAM? Seen him there many times and it definately isn't his best spot.... Would rather:Mata Oscar Hazard Lampard MikelAnd i expect him to start, because the alternative is Ramires at CAM or someone like Raul Merieles... Unless we Buy Hulk or someone else then i think he will be in there...I dont think we have any doubts that Hazard(LAM) and Mata(CAM) are gonna be starting and that lampard will be playing in the deeper role alongside Mikel but the only big t desicion RDM is gonna make is either having Ramires on the right or moving Mata out to the wing and having Oscar in the middle..... TorontoChelsea 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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