Andreas Christensen

[MoroccanBlue 5,375]

7 minutes ago, Robchels said:

. Andreas has hardly played this season. Match fitness makes a huge difference esp around physicality and reading of the game.

He was mugged off last season too under Conte when he was getting a stretch of games. 

 

[robsblubot 3,595]

2 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

He was mugged off last season too under Conte when he was getting a stretch of games. 

 

I know... his form dipped towards the end of the season.

Just disagree with the overuse of better, worse, and "solid."
 

Stones was also NOT solid, until he was... and because he's technically gifted, he's an excellent player.

[MoroccanBlue 5,375]

7 minutes ago, Robchels said:

Stones was also NOT solid, until he was... and because he's technically gifted, he's an excellent player.

 Bulked up the season after and now he's hardly shoved off the ball. Can't be said about Christensen 

[robsblubot 3,595]

13 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

 Bulked up the season after and now he's hardly shoved off the ball. Can't be said about Christensen 

true, but bulking up is a hell lot easier than learning how to play footie.  

been watching the game for a while and am yet to see a player drastically improving technique. I'm sure it must have happened, and it is possible, just the hardest thing and only to a certain limit.

And once again, Andreas would've had a much easier time than Zouma if tossed in City's starting XI me thinks. It's all relative.

[Vesper 30,090]

20 minutes ago, Robchels said:

true, but bulking up is a hell lot easier than learning how to play footie.  

been watching the game for a while and am yet to see a player drastically improving technique. I'm sure it must have happened, and it is possible, just the hardest thing and only to a certain limit.

And once again, Andreas would've had a much easier time than Zouma if tossed in City's starting XI me thinks. It's all relative.

Agree comepletely on Zouma v AC at Shitty

which leads me to the perfect example of a player improving technique by a lot

the already mentioned Stones

I mean defensive technique btw, if you meant ball playing technique, then that is indeed much rarer

 

 

[robsblubot 3,595]

14 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Agree comepletely on Zouma v AC at Shitty

which leads me to the perfect example of a player improving technique by a lot

the already mentioned Stones

I mean defensive technique btw, if you meant ball playing technique, then that is indeed much rarer

 

 

yeah I totally meant ball playing as in skill. Good point. Reading the game can and usually is improved on by a huge margin by defenders as they play, which we expect Andreas to do (just like Stones).

[Vesper 30,090]

1 hour ago, Robchels said:

yeah I totally meant ball playing as in skill. Good point. Reading the game can and usually is improved on by a huge margin by defenders as they play, which we expect Andreas to do (just like Stones).

I keep going back and forth on AC, but I think I am just ready (due to the bans) to say fuck it, let Luiz go (we are insane to give him the 3 year contract he is demanding, hell I have an issue with 2) and toss AC and Rudiger (with backup from Ampadu, Azpi (in games Reece James starts or Reece in games Azpi starts at RB) maybe even Zouma or Tomori) to the wolves next season. Make or break, if he doesn't adapt, sell him in summer 2020. Especially the case if we have no CL. There is almost no way we drop to 8th or worse, even with Eden leaving, as long as Tammy and Bats can mash in around 20 league goals combined and Pulisic comes good and we keep CHO. I expect Watford and Leicester to fall off due to losing key players, and figure Everton and Wolves will be our main comp for 7th, if we do truly crash out of top six. We also need to sack Sarri, but that goes without saying, especially if we fail in the EL and finish 6th or 5th.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

3 hours ago, Robchels said:

That's fine as preferences go, but players aren't simply better or worse, and the word "solid" means very little to me. Plenty of mediocre "solid" defenders in the PL. Gary Cahill was a solid PL defender who could never play in any sort of possession system.

Both are good young defenders with completely different characteristics. Andreas is really good on the ball for a defender.

Zouma is also playing week in and week out, even when things were not going great. Andreas has hardly played this season. Match fitness makes a huge difference esp around physicality and reading of the game.

Christensen is good on the ball, but he gets super nervous when under pressure and that not only happened this season, but last season when he was playing week in week out. Cant have a CB that loses his shit so easily. Those ball abilites mean nothing if he gets panic attacks.

What I meant to say is that Id prefer Zouma in the backline who is reliable, quick and strong defender over Christensen ball skills. I prefered Zouma since the start prior to our Sarriball switch and from what I have seen I would still prefer him in any system. Defenders have to be reliable and Christensen is a ticking bomb. He will either make a ridiculous pass or he will get bodychecked by opponent in front of our goal.

Id say he can improve his decisions, but his strenght is main question. Defenders dont have to be ridiculously big to be good, but Christensen didnt pack any muscle last few years and he is already 24. Rudiger looks skinny too, but he is strong. Christensen bounces off well balanced opponents.

As for Cahill, I always thought he was decent on the ball. It was his style that didnt fit possesion type of football because he never pressed and always backed off from attackers.Zouma could be transformed to play under Sarri IMO, but next season is last chance to do so.

[robsblubot 3,595]

1 hour ago, BlueLyon said:

What I meant to say is that Id prefer Zouma in the backline who is reliable, quick and strong defender over Christensen ball skills. I prefered Zouma since the start prior to our Sarriball switch and from what I have seen I would still prefer him in any system. Defenders have to be reliable and Christensen is a ticking bomb. He will either make a ridiculous pass or he will get bodychecked by opponent in front of our goal.

Sure, but that's a preference of style not of the players in question.

Once again, you give Zouma to *any* possession side and he's not even sitting on the bench. Barcelona played years and years with Mascherano as a CB. Same way that Zouma would definitely work in a more direct system, where the CBs need to be aggressive and chase like you pointed out.

So, "reliable" is relative. In a possession system, Andreas would be far more "reliable" than Zouma.

You don't need to be strong when you keep the football and pass it along quickly. The opposition never gets to enough 50/50s to cause you problems.

Zouma is very poor on the ball and a particularly bad passer. Perhaps Everton is his peak... wouldn't surprise me if he's moved there permanently. The trend these days is for ball-playing CBs (I don't make the rules).  

[coolhead23 1,147]

4 hours ago, Robchels said:

Sure, but that's a preference of style not of the players in question.

Once again, you give Zouma to *any* possession side and he's not even sitting on the bench. Barcelona played years and years with Mascherano as a CB. Same way that Zouma would definitely work in a more direct system, where the CBs need to be aggressive and chase like you pointed out.

So, "reliable" is relative. In a possession system, Andreas would be far more "reliable" than Zouma.

You don't need to be strong when you keep the football and pass it along quickly. The opposition never gets to enough 50/50s to cause you problems.

Zouma is very poor on the ball and a particularly bad passer. Perhaps Everton is his peak... wouldn't surprise me if he's moved there permanently. The trend these days is for ball-playing CBs (I don't make the rules).  

Completely agree. Modern day defenders are becoming ball playing CBs even Goalkeepers are expected to do the same. 

[the wes 7,212]

He's Just not good enough Ake is better CB than AC 

[Special Juan 28,100]

Nothing I have seen from him tells me he can be any good, never mind here.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

The problem with ball playing defenders is that they are picked for their ball playing ability over their defending ability which should be priority.

De Ligt is ball playing CB, but he is great CB because he can actualy defend and command the back line. Terry was the same.

We have Zouma who is good defender and average with the ball. And we have Christensen who is average defender and ok with the ball. But if we pick worse defender out of the two just because he can pass, then we are doomed. Our defence will never be strong enough.

Obviously it would be ideal to have great defenders who can also pass, but we dont have those right now. And picking your CBs based on how good they are on the ball instead of how they defend, its stupid, regardless if the game evolved to this point.

What good is their quality on the ball if they get shat on against every decent attacker? 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

On 4/16/2019 at 3:14 AM, Robchels said:

Sure, but that's a preference of style not of the players in question.

Once again, you give Zouma to *any* possession side and he's not even sitting on the bench. Barcelona played years and years with Mascherano as a CB. Same way that Zouma would definitely work in a more direct system, where the CBs need to be aggressive and chase like you pointed out.

So, "reliable" is relative. In a possession system, Andreas would be far more "reliable" than Zouma.

You don't need to be strong when you keep the football and pass it along quickly. The opposition never gets to enough 50/50s to cause you problems.

Zouma is very poor on the ball and a particularly bad passer. Perhaps Everton is his peak... wouldn't surprise me if he's moved there permanently. The trend these days is for ball-playing CBs (I don't make the rules).  

I rather see Zouma properly defend against attackers and just hoof the ball away compared to the shit show Christensen puts, regardless of style we play.

Ball playing CBs are the way to go and I prefer those. But Christensen is average defender at best and you always rate CBs based on their ability to defend first and then their ball abilities. The later separates their quality, but if the first is not good enough, no one will even consider them. If all we want is ball retention and f*ck defending, then why dont we just play Jorginho and Kovacic in CB pairing. 

If Christensen was De Ligt, I wouldnt even argue with you. But between Christensen and Zouma, we have more chance to retain clean sheet with the later. Thats the priority for the defence, regardless of the style. 

And Zouma isnt even that bad to make simple passes to Azpi or Luiz, but true he isnt anywhere great with long passes, althrough he also isnt as bad. I remember he was actualy surprisingly decent when he was still playing here. Christensen on the other hand doesnt contribute anywhere near as much as Luiz either. And he looks unreliably shaky when under pressure. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,375]

Let's be real here. Every opposition would target Zouma when we try and play out from the back. The same way they target Dave and Alonso. 

Both Zouma and Christensen aren't good enough for the standard we are looking for.