The English Football Thread

[OhForAGreavsie 5,773]

8 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Wow a Chelsea fan that actualy still respects Mou and isnt bitter about him?

I dont understand why so many hate him. The man created modern Chelsea along RA and Kenyon. No one should forget that. 

 

On united-city matter, very happy Pep was put in his place again. Hate it when media talks about "best team in world" and " unbeatable" when all they won is League cup (I know they will win PL too, but internationaly wise they have much to show). 

I like to keep my posts polite and respectful. Well, as polite and respectful as I can manage anyway. I’ve therefore adopted a policy of not responding to the general point of view expressed about Jose in this site because I’ve got not one polite or respectful thing to say about the blank bleeps and their blank wit opinions about JM.

[communicate 2,703]

On 4/8/2018 at 2:26 AM, milan.cech said:

Congratulations United on winning the League. Or am I missing something here with their players' celebrations?

This. I have no clue what is this praise for united. City priority is on ucl, EPL is done and dusted a while ago. 

[Special Juan 27,091]

Funny as fuck watching City choke I must say. Proper bottle jobs.....inevitable they win it but still sat there on Saturday loving the reaction Pep's face.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,773]

1 hour ago, Mana said:

You do remember that Mourinho is now a red right? This means you automatically want Man United to become successful. Feck that. If Mourinho was manager of Spuds, would you want him to continue winning???

 

Re: Chelsea's Interests

What you said here is completely flawed. If Mourinho is managing an non-top PL club, then what you said is right (and I would "almost" wish him Mourinho well).
But he chose United, who is always going to be our rivals. We could be meeting Mourinho in the final already.
Next season if we are challenging for the league, United could be our rivals. How can you wish him well and want him to win at ALL.

Mourinho will always conflict with Chelsea's interests. We want to be Champions of England/Europe again. So do they. They'll be in our faces, and Mourinho will show no mercy to Chelsea.

Your imagination, your knowledge, or both, are limited if you cannot visualise circumstances in which a United victory does not conflict with Chelsea's interest. "Mourinho will always conflict with Chelsea's interests"? Even if you inserted the condition 'at United', that statement would still be nonsense.

The relationship between most Chelsea fans and Tottenham Hotspurs makes that rivalry a special case. Almost unbelievably I have read posts from members of this forum stating that the Tottenham rivalry does not matter to them. To me that is the equivalent of high treason. How a true Chelsea fan can say such a thing is utterly beyond me but, even so, I want Spuds to win on Saturday. Why? Because it is useful to Chelsea. Of course I then hope they get smashed in the semi-final. It's just a question of competing priorities. If Jose were at Spurs I would still want them to loose pretty much every game they play but, if they are to win a game under Poch or under Jose, then I'd hate it less if the won under The Special One.

City are Champions in all but name. With or Without Jose I'd rather United win it than they do. With Jose, it's a no brainer for me. When United won the Europa league I was pleased for Jose, but more pleased for Chelsea because we benefit from England's coefficient ranking being bolstered albeit that United's victory cost us a small amount of money. It is never a simple choice between Chelsea and United when the honours are handed out. The preferences of Chelsea fans will always therefore be more nuanced than your post pretends they will be.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,773]

6 minutes ago, Mana said:

How the heck is that statement nonsense? Please take off your Mourinho tinted glasses for a minute.

Mourinho is the manager for Man United. United are our rivals. You shouldn't be happy for Mourinho finishing 2nd, while we are 5th place. If Mourinho did worse than us, we would be 4th. That's what I'm saying here.

Next season we go again. Will you be supporting Mourinho to win things or you are supporting Chelsea to win things? Because bar the Champions League, we are going for the same trophies. HENCE THE CONFLICT.

Off-topic a bit, yes I too do want Spuds to win this Saturday. But that's a one-off like case. I wouldn't be supporting Spuds every game.

In fact you are the one blinded by Jose. You mean you were not happy when United beat City at the weekend? Even members whose posts betray a hatred for Jose understood that a United win was good for us. That being so, your statement clearly is nonsense, as stated. Or do you mean you want Spurs to beat them in the semi-final? If you do then, as argued above, that amounts to treason in my eyes.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,773]

5 minutes ago, Mana said:

Yes I was happy Mourinho beat City. But then again I point to what I said about Spuds. It was a one-off because it benefits Chelsea. I wouldn't want United to win every game as long we are "not in conflict", that's ludicrous and that DOESN'T benefit Chelsea.

I'm sorry, I'm going to have to stop this conversation because you are now posting stupid things. If what you've written makes sense even to you I'd be surprised.

There are many, many times when a victory for a Mourinho managed team does Chelsea no harm. On all of those occasions, but on no others, I want him to win.

[Fulham Broadway 16,381]

17 minutes ago, Mana said:

How the heck is that statement nonsense? Please take off your Mourinho tinted glasses for a minute.

Mourinho is the manager for Man United. United are our rivals. You shouldn't be happy for Mourinho finishing 2nd, while we are 5th place. If Mourinho did worse than us, we would be 4th. That's what I'm saying here.

Next season we go again. Will you be supporting Mourinho to win things or you are supporting Chelsea to win things? Because bar the Champions League, we are going for the same trophies. HENCE THE CONFLICT.

Off-topic a bit, yes I too do want Spuds to win this Saturday. But that's a one-off like case. I wouldn't be supporting Spuds every game.

Agree with that. They will always be rivals.  Growing up in London half the school kids supported Chels and half Utd. Always hated their god given right that they feel they have to win everything, especially under Ferguson. I have really enjoyed their 'noisy neighbours' upsetting the apple cart in recent years, but at the same time had a definite sense of schadenfreude when they came back on Saturday to beat City. 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,773]

3 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Agree with that. They will always be rivals.  Growing up in London half the school kids supported Chels and half Utd. Always hated their god given right that they feel they have to win everything, especially under Ferguson. I have really enjoyed their 'noisy neighbours' upsetting the apple cart in recent years, but at the same time had a definite sense of schadenfreude when they came back on Saturday to beat City. 

Hello FB,

 

The statement was that a United victory always conflicts with Chelsea's interests. Even your post makes it clear that this is not always the case. The statement is therefore self-evident nonsense.

If we are competing with United for a trophy, or for league position, then no Chelsea fan will want them to win but when we are not there is room for other priorities.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

15 minutes ago, Mana said:

How the heck is that statement nonsense? Please take off your Mourinho tinted glasses for a minute.

Mourinho is the manager for Man United. United are our rivals. You shouldn't be happy for Mourinho finishing 2nd, while we are 5th place. If Mourinho did worse than us, we would be 4th. That's what I'm saying here.

Next season we go again. Will you be supporting Mourinho to win things or you are supporting Chelsea to win things? Because bar the Champions League, we are going for the same trophies. HENCE THE CONFLICT.

Off-topic a bit, yes I too do want Spuds to win this Saturday. But that's a one-off like case. I wouldn't be supporting Spuds every game.

IMO he doesnt support United per se. he just fancy Mou to do well because he had many good years with us. 

Its like when you wish a club legend all the best, like Cech to have good spell in arsenal, apart from games against us.

And you do realise United success only benefits us, right?  Lets say PL would be crap and we win title every year. But that wouldnt mean much because the league is shit and its not a challenge. 

What strong United gives us is competiton which is good. It means we have to improve and thats also good in eyes of our CL chances.

People need to see we are fifth because we are crap right now. Its not because united plays well. Thats why makes no sense to wish bad luck to United or Mou. Thats just ill sportsmanship. Its on Chelsea to improve, regardless of how good/bad United plays. 

 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,773]

1 minute ago, BlueLyon said:

IMO he doesnt support United per se. he just fancy Mou to do well because he had many good years with us. 

Its like when you wish a club legend all the best, like Cech to have good spell in arsenal, apart from games against us.

And you do realise United success only benefits us, right?  Lets say PL would be crap and we win title every year. But that wouldnt mean much because the league is shit and its not a challenge. 

What strong United gives us is competiton which is good. It means we have to improve and thats also good in eyes of our CL chances.

People need to see we are fifth because we are crap right now. Its not because united plays well. Thats why makes no sense to wish bad luck to United or Mou. Thats just ill sportsmanship. Its on Chelsea to improve, regardless of how good/bad United plays. 

 

Indeed, I'd go further and say that City and Pep are good for the Premier League as a whole. They are by far the best Champions of recent years. The rest of us will have to improve if we intend to compete and heaven knows we here have been crying out for improvements for a long time.

[Fulham Broadway 16,381]

12 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Hello FB,

 

The statement was that a United victory always conflicts with Chelsea's interests. Even your post makes it clear that this is not always the case. The statement is therefore self-evident nonsense.

If we are competing with United for a trophy, or for league position, then no Chelsea fan will want them to win but when we are not there is room for other priorities.

Hi OFG - It's all a bit subjective this isn't it ? - my enemies enemy is my friend thing, and there is a hierarchy of rivals which can be a personal preference. For instance I know a few Chelsea fans that like Utd, (not because or in spite of Mourinho). I despise them, always have done (probably down to school fights) -but there is a common ground with some rivals Sp*rs, Arsenal, West Ham, and even I want a Utd victory when they're playing Liverpool.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

5 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Agree with that. They will always be rivals.  Growing up in London half the school kids supported Chels and half Utd. Always hated their god given right that they feel they have to win everything, especially under Ferguson. I have really enjoyed their 'noisy neighbours' upsetting the apple cart in recent years, but at the same time had a definite sense of schadenfreude when they came back on Saturday to beat City. 

You mix personal feelings about rivalry with healthy competition. 

No one wants to see United win PL every year because they are rivals. 

But in terms of improvement, you want strong United because that means you compete on top level. And if you win, the victory is huge. 

Personaly, I dont want easy league just so we win title each year. 

Hence I want United (and every other team to do well, so that level of quality moves up). 

But Im not a fan of any team apart from Chelsea, however due to Mou connection with Chelsea, I will prefer him to win over lets say City. Same with Salah or Cech. The only time I wish them lose is when they play us. 

And for example, If we are in title race I want Chelsea to win, not United to lose. If we do our job, we win the title. If we dont, United does. And then you applaud and respect the oposition for being better, while prepare to improve for next season and beat their ass next time.

On personal feelings I dont like City and United this better, but thats on us. We were simply crap this season. Move on and improve. But objectively, its good that Manchesters are successful. It raised the bar and we will have to improve big time. And if we do, we will have one damn great team. 

Thats why we were brilliant in 2004-2010 because the league with super United was much much more competitve than it is today. 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,773]

8 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Hi OFG - It's all a bit subjective this isn't it ? - my enemies enemy is my friend thing, and there is a hierarchy of rivals which can be a personal preference. For instance I know a few Chelsea fans that like Utd, (not because or in spite of Mourinho). I despise them, always have done (probably down to school fights) -but there is a common ground with some rivals Sp*rs, Arsenal, West Ham, and even I want a Utd victory when they're playing Liverpool.

Agree, there is a hierarchy and that hierarchy is personal. For me, all other things being equal, I'd rather see United win a game or a trophy in preference to Arsenal. Among others.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

4 minutes ago, Mana said:

There's the thing BL. You cannot currently separate Mourinho and Man United. You can't. If Mou does well, then United does well. That's the issue here.

I wish Cech all the best, but that doesn't mean I want Arsenal to start winning things. I certainly don't want Cech to win the PL or the CL with Arsenal. Why? How does this benefit us? I don't understand that.

Being 5th and United doing well doesn't really benefit us...but let's face it. If the PL was crap, and we win the league every year do us fans really care? Be honest. I'll personally bite your hand off if we win the league every year.

Also I still don't understand why we shouldn't wish bad luck to fecking United. Their fans will wish us bad luck, they don't like us because we are a "sugar daddy club". They are our rivals. Yes it highlights how bad we are compared to them, but that doesn't mean we should root for United to get stronger just because Mourinho is there.

Chelsea and United are not friends. They never were.

Its easy to say, but honestly it would get boring to me if we won every year, expecting to win every year. 

Fact that I see this crap season, will make me indefinitely happier next season if we won the title. 

It could be down to individuals with bad experiences, but personaly I have good friends who are United fans and also Arsenal fans. We joke alot and keep it in fun banter. So yeah it makes it more interesting if titles rotate between Chelsea, United,...

If another team is better than us, than I totaly respect them. In fact to see a top team, its privilege. I have mad respect for Henry 's Arsenal or Ferguson United. 

Does it make me lesser Chelsea fan? I dont think so. Its healthy rivalry. When we play, I want Chelsea to beat the crap out of them. But generaly, its always good to see strong competion. 

Matter of fact, best games I saw were against equaly strong opponents. Sometimes we won, sometimes we lost.

Its the beauty of football. 

So nah, I wouldnt like us to win year after year.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

1 hour ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Agree with that. They will always be rivals.  Growing up in London half the school kids supported Chels and half Utd. Always hated their god given right that they feel they have to win everything, especially under Ferguson. I have really enjoyed their 'noisy neighbours' upsetting the apple cart in recent years, but at the same time had a definite sense of schadenfreude when they came back on Saturday to beat City. 

You know, you are missing on half of what football has to offer if you hate on rivals like United, Mou, Arsenal, Gerrard, Cantona,...

I was about 15 when I absolutely despised Barca and Messi for their clashes with us and I also preferred Real in elclassicos back then, so it was easy to hate barca.

But I matured soon enough to realize that made no sense and I had opportunity to actualy appreciate Barca and Messi in ave for past few years before he retires. 

I dont see the point of hating or disliking someone. What do you get out of it? Chelsea still has to win. United losing wont make us win. 

Appreciate what football has to offer. Henry, Gerrard, Giggs, Vieira, Messi,...they were all our huge rivals, but they deserve big respect for their football legacies. 

As for fans of the opposition, there will always be two, fans that will piss on us, but also those who will show respect. Dont hate on rival clubs and players just because some fans are dicks. 

[Fulham Broadway 16,381]

6 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Gerrard

Wash your mouth out with soap and water. Horrible cheating git, who beat up a defenceless bloke in a club amongst other things.

 

8 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Giggs

Another vile specimen, fucking his brothers wife behind his back for 8 years.

11 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

I dont see the point of hating or disliking someone.

It's not a conscious thing, sorry always have and always will hate red teams. I see it as passion, and that we need more -especially at the new Stamford Bridge, and less half and half scarves with jester hats.

Imo

[Fulham Broadway 16,381]

1 hour ago, BlueLyon said:

You mix personal feelings about rivalry with healthy competition. 

No one wants to see United win PL every year because they are rivals. 

But in terms of improvement, you want strong United because that means you compete on top level. And if you win, the victory is huge. 

Personaly, I dont want easy league just so we win title each year. 

Hence I want United (and every other team to do well, so that level of quality moves up). 

But Im not a fan of any team apart from Chelsea, however due to Mou connection with Chelsea, I will prefer him to win over lets say City. Same with Salah or Cech. The only time I wish them lose is when they play us. 

And for example, If we are in title race I want Chelsea to win, not United to lose. If we do our job, we win the title. If we dont, United does. And then you applaud and respect the oposition for being better, while prepare to improve for next season and beat their ass next time.

On personal feelings I dont like City and United this better, but thats on us. We were simply crap this season. Move on and improve. But objectively, its good that Manchesters are successful. It raised the bar and we will have to improve big time. And if we do, we will have one damn great team. 

Thats why we were brilliant in 2004-2010 because the league with super United was much much more competitve than it is today. 

Personal feelings and healthy competition don't necessarily need to be mutually exclusive. 

We will have to disagree on your ''hence I want United and every other team to do well''. For me there are enough hurdles when West Ham, Burnley, Palace, and every other bottom half table raise their game, and act as if it's a cup final when playing us. This is what Citeh are currently facing, (eg v Wigan, Bristol City, Liverpool) and one of the hardest things in football and life when you are top dog is maintaining that position. Unless you're really at the races you get complacent, arrogant, sloppy, and every man and his dog want to knock you off that perch

Being realistic -we were brilliant in 2004-2010 partly because all the ducks were in a row in terms of on and off the pitch personnel, but primarily the same reason Citeh are riding high now  -sheer unfettered spending. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

56 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Wash your mouth out with soap and water. Horrible cheating git, who beat up a defenceless bloke in a club amongst other things.

 

Another vile specimen, fucking his brothers wife behind his back for 8 years.

It's not a conscious thing, sorry always have and always will hate red teams. I see it as passion, and that we need more -especially at the new Stamford Bridge, and less half and half scarves with jester hats.

Imo

I am talking strictly about their on pitch quality and character. 

If we go into their personal lives; Terry had affair with Bridge gf.

But even the most loyal unbiased rival fans will admit Terry was absolute class on pitch. 

I dont have problem saying the same for Gerrard, Giggs and bunch of others.