The English Football Thread

[Vesper 30,184]

going to say it

I have been pretty neutral on this

one of the few

Rice is streets beyond Caicedo

 

[Vesper 30,184]

 

[Laylabelle 9,535]

1 minute ago, Vesper said:

going to say it

I have been pretty neutral on this

one of the few

Rice is streets beyond Caicedo

 

Yep...they made a fab decision signing him. We were robbed

[Stats 7,142]

46 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Wow, Luton beating Arsenal.

Unsure how anyone can say Raya is a better GK than Ramsdale, absolutely insane. 

Mental how we and them both ended up with Raya and Sanchez, 2 of the most overrated GKs in the league. 

…..and its 3-3

If I am being honest, Raya was brilliant last season for Brentford. He was top class but it was just an odd move for Arsenal to make when they had a good keeper as it stands. 

Can't stand Arsenal. Their fans arrogance approaching this game about this being an easy game etc just shows why so many people don't want them to win the league and it's because of their arrogant for no reason fans.

[TheHulk 2,457]

7 minutes ago, Vesper said:

 

City or Liverpool winning league.

[Laylabelle 9,535]

Know early but unless something dramatic happens top 3 seems more or less done just the order may change...

[NikkiCFC 8,324]

13 minutes ago, TheHulk said:

We all knew it would come.

 

12 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

Absolutely. Not surprised at all. It was coming but you always know game will be played on and on till arsenal score

It's called Champions mentality. 

[Laylabelle 9,535]

13 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

It's called Champions mentality. 

Yep and that's what they didn't use to have...and if wasnt for the whole Newcastle thing they'd be unbeaten...City seem iffy this season but then again they did last season so hmmm...think be a lot closer this time round and probably be more annoying winner wise come May.

 

[Thor 2,712]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

going to say it

I have been pretty neutral on this

one of the few

Rice is streets beyond Caicedo

 

Disagree. 
Both are great and similar level. For the mistakes Caceido has made, it’s due to the pressure - but it’s also easier to play in a better team. 
Rice has that luxury - going to a more settled team just adding key pieces. Give it time to make an assessment. I don’t think the gap is that big - or there at all really. 
 

I know who looked better when one team played the other. 
 

And like yourself I’ve been fairly unbiased about it all. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

Once again we compare current level vs potential, which has been a problem from day one of last transfer window.

Rice and Caicedo aren't comparable because they are at very different stages in their careers. Rice is twice the player at the moment... honestly, don't think that's controversial. He has even been winning matches for Arsenal, which is a side of the game I did not think he had.

Caicedo is a project atm. He may yet become a very good player, but right now he looks remarkably average to my eyes.

[Thor 2,712]

1 hour ago, robsblubot said:

Once again we compare current level vs potential, which has been a problem from day one of last transfer window.

Rice and Caicedo aren't comparable because they are at very different stages in their careers. Rice is twice the player at the moment... honestly, don't think that's controversial. He has even been winning matches for Arsenal, which is a side of the game I did not think he had.

Caicedo is a project atm. He may yet become a very good player, but right now he looks remarkably average to my eyes.

He was a better player statistically last season. 
 

Caceido went to a project while Rice went to a finished project looking to add the final piece. Completely different. 
 

Rice isn’t miles better. 

[Strike 7,490]

4 hours ago, Thor said:

Disagree. 
Both are great and similar level. For the mistakes Caceido has made, it’s due to the pressure - but it’s also easier to play in a better team. 
Rice has that luxury - going to a more settled team just adding key pieces. Give it time to make an assessment. I don’t think the gap is that big - or there at all really. 
 

I know who looked better when one team played the other. 
 

And like yourself I’ve been fairly unbiased about it all. 

Even though Caicedo is physically better, Rice's positioning and his decisions in midfield - always making the right choices in midfield - has been really good. It does feel like he can be a consistent midfield piece for years while with Caicedo - there is still no hard evidence of this. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

4 hours ago, Thor said:

He was a better player statistically last season. 
 

Caceido went to a project while Rice went to a finished project looking to add the final piece. Completely different. 
 

Rice isn’t miles better. 

His numbers were sure impressive, which is the reason we went for him, but please forget last season. This step from smaller club to big club can be a tough one to take.

Playing for a smaller club can be very different from playing for a powerhouse like Chelsea.

I will make an analogy, because it is something that has happened a number of times, and in Brazil we have a saying, "he's a club player." That's a simplification, of course, but each position, each move has its own challenges.

For ex, midfielder does really well for his club (in Brazil or elsewhere) and gets called up. He's a quality player--the center of the team. Everything goes through him and he's everywhere for his team. Now, for Brazil tho, he has to hold position. That's because to his right there is another mid just as good and energetic. Behind him, there is a ball-playing defender who likes to carry the ball. And right in front of him, roams the maestro of the team who demands the football.

So, at the very least, there is a period of adaptation. That's yet another reason I did not believe this team would deliver a whole lot this season.

Edited December 6, 2023 by robsblubot

[Cosmin 2,484]

I hate arsenal and arteta with a passion. So many games won during the last few minutes, it is frustrating. Feckin cnuts all of them.

[Reddish-Blue 2,507]

2 hours ago, robsblubot said:

His numbers were sure impressive, which is the reason we went for him, but please forget last season. This step from smaller club to big club can be a tough one to take.

Playing for a smaller club can be very different from playing for a powerhouse like Chelsea.

I will make an analogy, because it is something that has happened a number of times, and in Brazil we have a saying, "he's a club player." That's a simplification, of course, but each position, each move has its own challenges.

For ex, midfielder does really well for his club (in Brazil or elsewhere) and gets called up. He's a quality player--the center of the team. Everything goes through him and he's everywhere for his team. Now, for Brazil tho, he has to hold position. That's because to his right there is another mid just as good and energetic. Behind him, there is a ball-playing defender who likes to carry the ball. And right in front of him, roams the maestro of the team who demands the football.

So, at the very least, there is a period of adaptation. That's yet another reason I did not believe this team would deliver a whole lot this season.

I get the example but he did have another "maestro" in MacAllister roaming around the Brighton midfield.   Not to mention some other good midfielders in Gross and co. 

Caicedo's main problem is that he'll have a very hard time justifying his price tag at Chelsea.  He's a good player and I'm sure he'll be valuable in the next 5 years but to spend that much on a midfielder who doesn't really score or create goals is crazy. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

7 hours ago, Reddish-Blue said:

I get the example but he did have another "maestro" in MacAllister roaming around the Brighton midfield.   Not to mention some other good midfielders in Gross and co. 

Caicedo's main problem is that he'll have a very hard time justifying his price tag at Chelsea.  He's a good player and I'm sure he'll be valuable in the next 5 years but to spend that much on a midfielder who doesn't really score or create goals is crazy. 

Right, not quite an Enzo and you cited a single player. That's typical of smaller clubs: the top players don't linger for too long. I'm sure he used to watch Sterling and Silva play when he was a kid. 😆

Do you think that Gallagher does not qualify in the example I gave? I think he does. Not only because he's very dynamic, but having been at the club for a long time would make him a leader.

So, all these dynamics would affect a *very* young player coming in.

Of course the expectations do play a part, but at this level, and at a big club, expectation would always be high. The price tag only makes it worse. So, I don't it's an "OR" here, but rather a number of different things combined which will make it hard for him esp the first season.

[Laylabelle 9,535]

City 6 behind Arsenal now...

[Reddish-Blue 2,507]

9 hours ago, Laylabelle said:

City 6 behind Arsenal now...

Think Arsenal will be more worried about a motivated Klopp and Liverpool 😆

[Reddish-Blue 2,507]

14 hours ago, robsblubot said:

Right, not quite an Enzo and you cited a single player. That's typical of smaller clubs: the top players don't linger for too long. I'm sure he used to watch Sterling and Silva play when he was a kid. 😆

Do you think that Gallagher does not qualify in the example I gave? I think he does. Not only because he's very dynamic, but having been at the club for a long time would make him a leader.

So, all these dynamics would affect a *very* young player coming in.

Of course the expectations do play a part, but at this level, and at a big club, expectation would always be high. The price tag only makes it worse. So, I don't it's an "OR" here, but rather a number of different things combined which will make it hard for him esp the first season.

I don't think Gallagher has been here long enough to qualify as a "Leader" in the dressing room.  Like I love his energy but he needs to add another level to his game if he wants to be part of the future England midfield in the next 3-5 years.    I also think that's part of the problem we have at the club right now.  With so many new signings, no one has been here long enough to be able to lead on the pitch and take the initiative. 

Back in the day, you could turn to Lampard, Cech, Ashley Cole, JT, Essien, Drogba and many others who were all leaders at club or international level.   

[Blue Armour 4,442]

22 minutes ago, Reddish-Blue said:

I don't think Gallagher has been here long enough to qualify as a "Leader" in the dressing room.  Like I love his energy but he needs to add another level to his game if he wants to be part of the future England midfield in the next 3-5 years.    I also think that's part of the problem we have at the club right now.  With so many new signings, no one has been here long enough to be able to lead on the pitch and take the initiative. 

Back in the day, you could turn to Lampard, Cech, Ashley Cole, JT, Essien, Drogba and many others who were all leaders at club or international level.   

Unfortunately, experience counts for little according to the new management.

They just saw $$ signs in savings and transfer fees and shipped out half the squad. Fans were also thrilled because we shipped out 'trash'. 

Did the trash screw up last season? Did it have anything to do with chopping and changing managers and putting in mediocre managers in place? Hell no.

And NOW apparently the manager, and Poch, is the problem