Ramires

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Think I've already answered this twice. I think he should be playing the majority of games, most of our recent managers have agreed with this.

And everyone agrees that we need a playmaker in that position too.

We'll see what happens next season, but he's a big game player and is scapegoated far too often. He doesn't have to be the one sacrificed. He can play next to someone who can pass, hold his position etc, but I've explained this already.

If we're going to win the League we need to someone to retrieve the ball and do the dirty work. Ramires will be our man to do so.

If we're going to play with a two-man midfield, then one will need to hold and one will dictate the play. The latter needs to be bought, the former will be one of Mikel, Romeu or Chalobah. If you include Ramires then you are basically saying that you're going to let the other team dictate the play and we'll try and hit you on the break. That may well have it's place in certain games, but I don't think he'll play the majority of games if things go to plan.

As I've said, I think you can win cups with a player like Ramires playing consistently but I don't think you can win leagues like that. You can't rely on teams attacking you and you hitting them on the break. Too many teams will sit back and you have to be perfect in your execution which is impossible 100% of the time.

[themightyblue 443]

And everyone agrees that we need a playmaker in that position too.

If we're going to play with a two-man midfield, then one will need to hold and one will dictate the play. The latter needs to be bought, the former will be one of Mikel, Romeu or Chalobah. If you include Ramires then you are basically saying that you're going to let the other team dictate the play and we'll try and hit you on the break. That may well have it's place in certain games, but I don't think he'll play the majority of games if things go to plan.

As I've said, I think you can win cups with a player like Ramires playing consistently but I don't think you can win leagues like that. You can't rely on teams attacking you and you hitting them on the break. Too many teams will sit back and you have to be perfect in your execution which is impossible 100% of the time.

That is just one example of a double pivot. You can have one player who is capable of holding while also being able to be a playmaker from deep and dictate things, while the player next to him plays box to box and recovers the ball for the team. See the midfield 2 that Madrid play with Alonso and Khedira as an example. Khedira has more technical ability than Ramires, but they are similar players in there terrier-like approach to the game. Then they have Alonso to hold and dictate things. Bayern did a similar thing last season with Gustavo and Schweinsteiger. Gustavo was the ball winner while Schweinsteiger was deep lying playmaker. Ramires doesn't have to be the one that is sacrificed, it could equally be Mikel or Romeu depending on the player we bring in. If it is someone in the Alonso mould then Ramires should start as he'll be needed for ball recovery while the other midfielder dictates. If it's someone who's a bit more offensive then it has to be Mikel/Romeu who holds next too him. There isn't one set way for a midfield 2 to be played, it all depends on the discpline of the player we get in Summer, so I wouldn't have your heart set on Ramires not playing majority of matches because managers have tended to see the importance of Ramires and his qualities.

Mate you've said that about 5 times now, don't think I need to reply to that anymore

[Strike 7,474]

And everyone agrees that we need a playmaker in that position too.

If we're going to play with a two-man midfield, then one will need to hold and one will dictate the play. The latter needs to be bought, the former will be one of Mikel, Romeu or Chalobah. If you include Ramires then you are basically saying that you're going to let the other team dictate the play and we'll try and hit you on the break. That may well have it's place in certain games, but I don't think he'll play the majority of games if things go to plan.

As I've said, I think you can win cups with a player like Ramires playing consistently but I don't think you can win leagues like that. You can't rely on teams attacking you and you hitting them on the break. Too many teams will sit back and you have to be perfect in your execution which is impossible 100% of the time.

credit to Ramires for his performance at OT but yeah. i agree. i wouldn't have him as a definite starter in the pivot. more of a backup option to change the game perhaps with more running from midfield. his goals invariably come from counters - vs Villa, vs Wigan, vs ManU...

[themightyblue 443]

Don't think anymore needs to be said. Played another vital role in a big game. Another good game. I'll shut up now

[The only place to be 11,313]

Put in a great performance against a weak team. Can't ask more than that.

[Pacquiao 1,834]

The people who said Chelsea should get rid of Ramires must be feeling pretty stupid right now!

[English Freak 456]

Ramires is such a vital player to this football club.

Sure, he's not the most technically gifted CM out there...but his work ethic & energy on the pitch is just amazing...he's even a decent goalscorer.

We might go after a DLP type of player at the end of the season...but Ramires doesn't deserve to sit on the bench at Chelsea.

[The only place to be 11,313]

The people who said Chelsea should get rid of Ramires must be feeling pretty stupid right now!

Not at all. I'll stick by my critique of his skills because I believe it to be true. He may well have a place in the squad for games against teams like Steaua but he's not in my first team if we get the transfers right and stick with the current formation. I still think we need a playmaker like Modric and someone more solid like Mikel or possibly Chalobah.

Ramires is such a vital player to this football club.

Sure, he's not the most technically gifted CM out there...but his work ethic & energy on the pitch is just amazing...he's even a decent goalscorer.

We might go after a DLP type of player at the end of the season...but Ramires doesn't deserve to sit on the bench at Chelsea.

If you buy a DLP, where does Ramires fit in then? Let's not go overboard either - he had a good game (was MOTM for me partly because I got bored of voting for Hazard or Mata and partly because he worked hard especially considering Mikel's performance) but Steaua were very average and didn't put too much pressure on us.

[themightyblue 443]

Not at all. I'll stick by my critique of his skills because I believe it to be true. He may well have a place in the squad for games against teams like Steaua but he's not in my first team if we get the transfers right and stick with the current formation. I still think we need a playmaker like Modric and someone more solid like Mikel or possibly Chalobah.

If you buy a DLP, where does Ramires fit in then? Let's not go overboard either - he had a good game (was MOTM for me partly because I got bored of voting for Hazard or Mata and partly because he worked hard especially considering Mikel's performance) but Steaua were very average and didn't put too much pressure on us.

What about for games against the likes of united, arsenal, spurs where he has excelled. No need to try a belittle him and claim that teams like steau are his levels. Also you say they are a weak team, but where was Lamps last week against this so called weak team?

As I've already explained it depends on the type of DLP we get. If it is one similar to Alonso who holds his position in the centre of the park an orchestrates from deep then Ramires has to start next to him. If it is a DLP without much positional sense then he would probably start ahead of Ramires and rotate. Way too early to say he won't fit yet

[The only place to be 11,313]

What about for games against the likes of united, arsenal, spurs where he has excelled. No need to try a belittle him and claim that teams like steau are his levels. Also you say they are a weak team, but where was Lamps last week against this so called weak team?

Firstly, Lamps is on his way out. I wouldn't say he's good enough anymore either.

I've also explained why I think he does well in those games before. Do you want me to repeat that?

As I've already explained it depends on the type of DLP we get. If it is one similar to Alonso who holds his position in the centre of the park an orchestrates from deep then Ramires has to start next to him. If it is a DLP without much positional sense then he would probably start ahead of Ramires and rotate. Way too early to say he won't fit yet

I disagree. I actually think Mikel and Romeu (and maybe Chalobah) would be better in that circumstance. I like Rami, but if we're going to try and dominate possession against all the teams then I don't think he'll get many minutes.

Against teams that we plan to try and hit on the break then I think he'll be great but I don't know how many games that would actually represent and if it represents a large majority of our matches then I don't fancy our title chances.

[semiller1313 23]

Firstly, Lamps is on his way out. I wouldn't say he's good enough anymore either.

I've also explained why I think he does well in those games before. Do you want me to repeat that?

I disagree. I actually think Mikel and Romeu (and maybe Chalobah) would be better in that circumstance. I like Rami, but if we're going to try and dominate possession against all the teams then I don't think he'll get many minutes.

Against teams that we plan to try and hit on the break then I think he'll be great but I don't know how many games that would actually represent and if it represents a large majority of our matches then I don't fancy our title chances.

I don't agree that he is only fit for matches where we are trying to hit teams on the break. Possession requires the ability to win the ball and to keep it. Ramires, is great at winning the ball (one of the best) and poor at keeping it. His inability to keep the ball mainly comes from heavy pressing from teams. I think if we limit him to games where we are not expecting heavy pressure in the midfield, his weakness isn't really an issue. Also, it seems to me that the counter attack is an element to almost every game. Sure, there are some games where it rarely happens and some games where it is our only strategy (Barcelona, Bayern), but by in large it factors into most games. With that said, I definitely think we need to bring somebody new in. I think we can count on being pressured a fair amount, so he would need to be rotated often. Unlike some, I don't want a playmaker type like Modric or Benat. In our 4-2-3-1 we are very weak physically up front (Oscar, Mata and Hazard), to compensate for that I think we need somebody well rounded with excellent athleticism, strength, passing and ball winning skills. Of course, it is hard to find a player like that (Chalobah?), but I think that it a must for our system to work.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I don't agree that he is only fit for matches where we are trying to hit teams on the break. Possession requires the ability to win the ball and to keep it. Ramires, is great at winning the ball (one of the best) and poor at keeping it. His inability to keep the ball mainly comes from heavy pressing from teams. I think if we limit him to games where we are not expecting heavy pressure in the midfield, his weakness isn't really an issue. Also, it seems to me that the counter attack is an element to almost every game. Sure, there are some games where it rarely happens and some games where it is our only strategy (Barcelona, Bayern), but by in large it factors into most games. With that said, I definitely think we need to bring somebody new in. I think we can count on being pressured a fair amount, so he would need to be rotated often. Unlike some, I don't want a playmaker type like Modric or Benat. In our 4-2-3-1 we are very weak physically up front (Oscar, Mata and Hazard), to compensate for that I think we need somebody well rounded with excellent athleticism, strength, passing and ball winning skills. Of course, it is hard to find a player like that (Chalobah?), but I think that it a must for our system to work.

Can't disagree with any of that really. I've actually thought myself that we could have to stronger players in that double pivot who would provide a stable platform for the front four. Chalobah and Ramires might be perfect for that.

I'm not against having Rami in the team but it has to be under the right circumstances. If we go for a ball-player like Modric then I think he's the wrong player. If we go with a more physical middle two, then he does have a place. He seems to do well in a similar system for Brazil where he's one of the workers in their 4222 so it could work for us in all of our matches.

[English Freak 456]

Can't disagree with any of that really. I've actually thought myself that we could have to stronger players in that double pivot who would provide a stable platform for the front four. Chalobah and Ramires might be perfect for that.

I'm not against having Rami in the team but it has to be under the right circumstances. If we go for a ball-player like Modric then I think he's the wrong player. If we go with a more physical middle two, then he does have a place. He seems to do well in a similar system for Brazil where he's one of the workers in their 4222 so it could work for us in all of our matches.

He does 'well' for Brazil because he plays alongside a physical CM/DM in Paulinho or Sandro...

I still think a 4-3-3 would be a good option for Chelsea.

GK: Cech

Defence: Azpi - (X) - Luiz/Cahill - Cole

Midfield: Ramires/ Oscar - DLP - Mikel / (X)

Attacking Midfield: Mata --- Hazard

Striker: (X)

Key: (X) just means I'm not sure who will play those positions next season..

[Jack Uzzi 54]

Always loved this guy and especially when he drives into forward positions. His ball control is not always great but his runs always cause problems to the opposite defense. I would mind to continue with a midfield consisting of Mikel, Ramires and Oscar with Torres/Ba, Hazard and Mata upfront. Both Hazard and Mata will have some freedom to drift inside or switch positions in such a scenario of course. Alternatively, Mata could take a starting position in midfield in stead of Oscar.

[themightyblue 443]

Firstly, Lamps is on his way out. I wouldn't say he's good enough anymore either.

I've also explained why I think he does well in those games before. Do you want me to repeat that?

I disagree. I actually think Mikel and Romeu (and maybe Chalobah) would be better in that circumstance. I like Rami, but if we're going to try and dominate possession against all the teams then I don't think he'll get many minutes.

Against teams that we plan to try and hit on the break then I think he'll be great but I don't know how many games that would actually represent and if it represents a large majority of our matches then I don't fancy our title chances.

But the point is we weren't hitting the macs, spurs or Arsenal on the break in those matches. We actually went toe to toe with them and dominated with Ramires excelling. He may be at his best on the counter, but he is still a good player even when we try to dominate as he can make his runs from deep to unsettle the opposition defence from

their structures.

He's currently better than all 3 of those players