Sami Khedira

[Magic Lamps 11,432]

I am wondering why we are even considering options such as Gustavo and now Khedira, when we reportedly could simply have bagged de Rossi. Just as Gustavo, Khedira would be a slight upgrade on MIkel, but I also rate Ramires higher than both, cos he is a player who does more than what he is supposed to do and actually takes responsibility in the big moments. Khedira does not. he is a good DM, but not the guy you want to have around when the tide turns against you. When Real got raped by Dortmund and ManUtd and completely overrun in midfield, he was completely unable to do anything against it. He is only as good as the players next to him and will never be the one to stand up. De Rossi is the complete opposite. If his team is in danger he will fight tooth and nail to turn it around. That is why he raped the German midfield in any given Italy vs Germany clash. There are good players and there are great players...

[jakeheath 19]

“@MichaelVaughan: Roger the rum man tells me that Chelsea will sign the young German from Real Madrid Sami Khedira very soon....” Ahaha now this clown is posting crap! When will it end these rumours

[Tricky 301]

More paper talk, just don't see us turning out back on DDR to then pay more £££ for this guy.

[robsblubot 3,204]

I am wondering why we are even considering options such as Gustavo and now Khedira, when we reportedly could simply have bagged de Rossi. Just as Gustavo, Khedira would be a slight upgrade on MIkel, but I also rate Ramires higher than both, cos he is a player who does more than what he is supposed to do and actually takes responsibility in the big moments. Khedira does not. he is a good DM, but not the guy you want to have around when the tide turns against you. When Real got raped by Dortmund and ManUtd and completely overrun in midfield, he was completely unable to do anything against it. He is only as good as the players next to him and will never be the one to stand up. De Rossi is the complete opposite. If his team is in danger he will fight tooth and nail to turn it around. That is why he raped the German midfield in any given Italy vs Germany clash. There are good players and there are great players...

I don't think you can go any worse than Mikel when you consider how poor he has been (attacking wise) for Chelsea:

(played/goals/assists)

Gustavo:16(6) 4 1

Khedira: 19(6) 3 2

Mikel: 19(3) - -

[mediator 2,026]

And cech has been shit too, he didn't score... Mikel is a DM don't forget it...

[The Skipper 20,593]

Still don't know why people look at goals and stats from DMs.

[Stingray 9,441]

Friggin sign Witsel already ( yes yes i know hes belgian) ..... Mou wanted him before ... He would do wonders in the pivot + could do a 433 central position.

[robsblubot 3,204]

Still don't know why people look at goals and stats from DMs.

That's the exact same argument from the ppl who criticize David Luiz for doing too much...

Why would a defender score goals? because he has the quality to do it and becomes an asset because of his unique ability.

Same goes for a DM.

BTW, I've just list the stats of other DMs... so would you call Mikel's inability to create (goals OR assists) in attack an asset?

[The Skipper 20,593]

That's the exact same argument from the ppl who criticize David Luiz for doing too much...

Why would a defender score goals? because he has the quality to do it and becomes an asset because of his unique ability.

Same goes for a DM.

BTW, I've just list the stats of other DMs... so would you call Mikel's inability to create (goals OR assists) in attack an asset?

Yes, it's why David Luiz is such an unique defender/player because he brings you goals wherever he plays.

My point is that you shouldn't really be looking at goals/assists from DMs in order to evaluate their ability in attack because their primary role is to be the deepest midfielder in the team so they won't very often be in the final third to create or score goals.

Mikel has the ability to create and score goals as he shows for Nigeria time and time again but at Chelsea he's given different instructions and he adheres to them more because he understands that when you have 4/5 players ahead of you and David Luiz, Ashley Cole and Azpilicueta also coming out from defence to join the attack on occasions that he can't just bomb forward and join attacks whenever he wants to.

It's nice to have a DM that can score the odd goal here and now but I certainly wouldn't expect or penalise against my DM if he doesn't. DMs should be one of the last people you look to for goals assists IMO.

[Duppy Conqueror 1,446]

Still don't know why people look at goals and stats from DMs.

Indeed.the greatest only scored one for us after scuffing in a rebound off a badly taken penalty he took himself.

[Goemaere 131]

Friggin sign Witsel already ( yes yes i know hes belgian) ..... Mou wanted him before ... He would do wonders in the pivot + could do a 433 central position.

Are we linked with him because he would be an absolute dream siging.

Young, technical, beast on the ball, magnificant passing and action radius, a top 10 dm in the world for me.

[robsblubot 3,204]

Yes, it's why David Luiz is such an unique defender/player because he brings you goals wherever he plays.

My point is that you shouldn't really be looking at goals/assists from DMs in order to evaluate their ability in attack because their primary role is to be the deepest midfielder in the team so they won't very often be in the final third to create or score goals.

Mikel has the ability to create and score goals as he shows for Nigeria time and time again but at Chelsea he's given different instructions and he adheres to them more because he understands that when you have 4/5 players ahead of you and David Luiz, Ashley Cole and Azpilicueta also coming out from defence to join the attack on occasions that he can't just bomb forward and join attacks whenever he wants to.

It's nice to have a DM that can score the odd goal here and now but I certainly wouldn't expect or penalise against my DM if he doesn't. DMs should be one of the last people you look to for goals assists IMO.

You are focusing too much on goals, and what concerns me the most is there lack of assists, which showcases his narrow range of passing.

All players I've mentioned play very deeply in their teams as well. And the formation we've been using for the entire season does not have a DM anyway, so Mikel certainly has the freedom to move up the field, if he had the mobility to do that (he's just too slow though).

I don't buy the Nigeria argument either: Mikel has had enough time to display any of the quality you say he has for Chelsea and frankly the numbers speak for themselves: no goals and no assists! It actually worries me we have 3 players from a side as mediocre as Nigeria, but that's a different discussion.

It's funny people compare Mikel to Makelele, since the latter was one of the most mobile (pacey too) players I've ever seen while Mikel is the least mobile midfielder I've ever seen. While Mikel is always chasing the play, Makelele could outrun a take the ball away from most other players. Still, the game has changed and I don't see many Makelele's playing for top sides any more.

[The Skipper 20,593]

You are focusing too much on goals, and what concerns me the most is there lack of assists, which showcases his narrow range of passing.

All players I've mentioned play very deeply in their teams as well. And the formation we've been using for the entire season does not have a DM anyway, so Mikel certainly has the freedom to move up the field, if he had the mobility to do that (he's just too slow though).

I don't buy the Nigeria argument either: Mikel has had enough time to display any of the quality you say he has for Chelsea and frankly the numbers speak for themselves: no goals and no assists! It actually worries me we have 3 players from a side as mediocre as Nigeria, but that's a different discussion.

It's funny people compare Mikel to Makelele, since the latter was one of the most mobile (pacey too) players I've ever seen while Mikel is the least mobile midfielder I've ever seen. While Mikel is always chasing the play, Makelele could outrun a take the ball away from most other players. Still, the game has changed and I don't see many Makelele's playing for top sides any more.

I was merely responding to the use of stats - what I said about goals was meant to be applied to assists as well.

You're right in saying that Khedira and Gustavo are usually the deepest midfielders in their team, but they play with different people; they can join the attack and score goals because of who they're partnering in midfield - usually Xabi Alonso or Schweinsteiger - whom both can comfortably stay deep as well and both are excellent pivot players. However, the situation at Chelsea doesn't allow that for Mikel. When Mikel played last season, he's usually paired with Ramires and Lampard, especially the latter, and sometimes Luiz. All three of these three players enjoy going forward a lot whenever they do play with Mikel and this forces Mikel to be the deepest midfilder - to provide a safe haven for when we can't pass the ball forward. Mikel does not get forward as much as Khedira or Gustavo do for their respective clubs and that is very much down to the partners they have in midfield.

Well, you can't just disregard his performances for Nigeria when he is given that freedom and when he isn't the furthest/deepest midfielder back (he's often the most advanced, paired with a B2B and a DM). When Mikel gets this freedom, his range of passing increases tenfold, he struts his stuff creatively and gets himself into decent goalscoring positions (surprisingly). Your argument that Nigeria are a mediocre side (quite laughable since they won the recent ACN and put up quite a few decent performances in the Confed Cup which shows that they are a decent side) is baseless. That's like saying Bale is a mediocre player because Wales are a mediocre football team when that's clearly far from the truth. In Moses, Mikel and Omereu we have some of Nigeria's best players so it I don't know why you're so worried about that.

I don't think Duppy Conqueror was comparing Mikel to Makelele, what he was saying is that goals/assists do not define a DM - he simply gave an example of how Makelele who is considered one of the greatest in that aspect only scored once for us from the penalty spot - and I agree with that. Like I said, personally I don't really look for my DM to score goals or provide assists. Whilst it is nice to have one that does that, it's more important for me that he does his primary job - shield the back four, provide a safe haven/easy options for your team to keep possession, positional sense etc.

Mikel is a good DM, not world class like De Rossi for example but he's definitely our best option right now (I don't buy that Essien's ahead of him, sorry) but I think he's being misused at Chelsea because he's being shackled too much and can't express himself properly. Hopefully Mourinho gives him the chance to do so this upcoming season, I think he'll surprise people if he does get the chance to have a bit more freedom.

[robsblubot 3,204]

I was merely responding to the use of stats - what I said about goals was meant to be applied to assists as well.

You're right in saying that Khedira and Gustavo are usually the deepest midfielders in their team, but they play with different people; they can join the attack and score goals because of who they're partnering in midfield - usually Xabi Alonso or Schweinsteiger - whom both can comfortably stay deep as well and both are excellent pivot players. However, the situation at Chelsea doesn't allow that for Mikel. When Mikel played last season, he's usually paired with Ramires and Lampard, especially the latter, and sometimes Luiz. All three of these three players enjoy going forward a lot whenever they do play with Mikel and this forces Mikel to be the deepest midfilder - to provide a safe haven for when we can't pass the ball forward. Mikel does not get forward as much as Khedira or Gustavo do for their respective clubs and that is very much down to the partners they have in midfield.

Well, you can't just disregard his performances for Nigeria when he is given that freedom and when he isn't the furthest/deepest midfielder back (he's often the most advanced, paired with a B2B and a DM). When Mikel gets this freedom, his range of passing increases tenfold, he struts his stuff creatively and gets himself into decent goalscoring positions (surprisingly). Your argument that Nigeria are a mediocre side (quite laughable since they won the recent ACN and put up quite a few decent performances in the Confed Cup which shows that they are a decent side) is baseless. That's like saying Bale is a mediocre player because Wales are a mediocre football team when that's clearly far from the truth. In Moses, Mikel and Omereu we have some of Nigeria's best players so it I don't know why you're so worried about that.

I don't think Duppy Conqueror was comparing Mikel to Makelele, what he was saying is that goals/assists do not define a DM - he simply gave an example of how Makelele who is considered one of the greatest in that aspect only scored once for us from the penalty spot - and I agree with that. Like I said, personally I don't really look for my DM to score goals or provide assists. Whilst it is nice to have one that does that, it's more important for me that he does his primary job - shield the back four, provide a safe haven/easy options for your team to keep possession, positional sense etc.

Mikel is a good DM, not world class like De Rossi for example but he's definitely our best option right now (I don't buy that Essien's ahead of him, sorry) but I think he's being misused at Chelsea because he's being shackled too much and can't express himself properly. Hopefully Mourinho gives him the chance to do so this upcoming season, I think he'll surprise people if he does get the chance to have a bit more freedom.

OK, we completely disagree on the following:

1. You think Mikel is hindered - somehow - by Chelsea team even though he's been through several different managers and teammates. He's been playing for Chelsea for a long time and I've never seen any evidence pointing to managers telling him to sit back. I believe he doesn't have the movement/pace to do it, and since the whole Nigeria team play for him, his lack of pace isn't so much a problem for them. That will NEVER happen at CHelsea.

2. You say Nigeria are not mediocre (moderate quality, ordinary), but you also say Mikel is their best player, but is just a good player for Chelsea. So, how can a "just good DM" be Nigeria's best player if they are so good a side? BTW, ACN means very little to me - far less than Copa America. Sorry just don't think much of African football.

3. You believe he is good enough. I believe any of the players mentioned, including Khedira would be a vast improvement over Mikel. Because I believe our midfield has not been good enough and fielding the same players will just hand the title to City once again.

4. Finally, for being so bad attacking--think we all agree on this--he should be IMO at lot better defensively! Like a Makelele.

BTW, Luiz Gustavo starts for Brazil and Khedira (not long ago) was a regular starter for Germany... I won't go into football pecking order...

[Reddish-Blue 2,210]

I was merely responding to the use of stats - what I said about goals was meant to be applied to assists as well.

You're right in saying that Khedira and Gustavo are usually the deepest midfielders in their team, but they play with different people; they can join the attack and score goals because of who they're partnering in midfield - usually Xabi Alonso or Schweinsteiger - whom both can comfortably stay deep as well and both are excellent pivot players. However, the situation at Chelsea doesn't allow that for Mikel. When Mikel played last season, he's usually paired with Ramires and Lampard, especially the latter, and sometimes Luiz. All three of these three players enjoy going forward a lot whenever they do play with Mikel and this forces Mikel to be the deepest midfilder - to provide a safe haven for when we can't pass the ball forward. Mikel does not get forward as much as Khedira or Gustavo do for their respective clubs and that is very much down to the partners they have in midfield.

Well, you can't just disregard his performances for Nigeria when he is given that freedom and when he isn't the furthest/deepest midfielder back (he's often the most advanced, paired with a B2B and a DM). When Mikel gets this freedom, his range of passing increases tenfold, he struts his stuff creatively and gets himself into decent goalscoring positions (surprisingly). Your argument that Nigeria are a mediocre side (quite laughable since they won the recent ACN and put up quite a few decent performances in the Confed Cup which shows that they are a decent side) is baseless. That's like saying Bale is a mediocre player because Wales are a mediocre football team when that's clearly far from the truth. In Moses, Mikel and Omereu we have some of Nigeria's best players so it I don't know why you're so worried about that.

I don't think Duppy Conqueror was comparing Mikel to Makelele, what he was saying is that goals/assists do not define a DM - he simply gave an example of how Makelele who is considered one of the greatest in that aspect only scored once for us from the penalty spot - and I agree with that. Like I said, personally I don't really look for my DM to score goals or provide assists. Whilst it is nice to have one that does that, it's more important for me that he does his primary job - shield the back four, provide a safe haven/easy options for your team to keep possession, positional sense etc.

Mikel is a good DM, not world class like De Rossi for example but he's definitely our best option right now (I don't buy that Essien's ahead of him, sorry) but I think he's being misused at Chelsea because he's being shackled too much and can't express himself properly. Hopefully Mourinho gives him the chance to do so this upcoming season, I think he'll surprise people if he does get the chance to have a bit more freedom.

I agree with most of your post..except when you say that Mikel is a good DM.

He's a good midfielder but an average DM and I'm not sure if he would be a starter on any other top team.

If Mikel does get sold (which is unlikely), it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

We could bring in a new DM and Mikel could showcase his talent for another team...win win situation.

[The Skipper 20,593]

I agree with most of your post..except when you say that Mikel is a good DM.

He's a good midfielder but an average DM and I'm not sure if he would be a starter on any other top team.

If Mikel does get sold (which is unlikely), it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

We could bring in a new DM and Mikel could showcase his talent for another team...win win situation.

I think I agree with your statement that he's a good midfielder but an average DM. Like I said before, I just don't think he's used properly by Chelsea because he's restricted too much as the holding player.

OK, we completely disagree on the following:

1. You think Mikel is hindered - somehow - by Chelsea team even though he's been through several different managers and teammates. He's been playing for Chelsea for a long time and I've never seen any evidence pointing to managers telling him to sit back. I believe he doesn't have the movement/pace to do it, and since the whole Nigeria team play for him, his lack of pace isn't so much a problem for them. That will NEVER happen at CHelsea.

2. You say Nigeria are not mediocre (moderate quality, ordinary), but you also say Mikel is their best player, but is just a good player for Chelsea. So, how can a "just good DM" be Nigeria's best player if they are so good a side? BTW, ACN means very little to me - far less than Copa America. Sorry just don't think much of African football.

3. You believe he is good enough. I believe any of the players mentioned, including Khedira would be a vast improvement over Mikel. Because I believe our midfield has not been good enough and fielding the same players will just hand the title to City once again.

4. Finally, for being so bad attacking--think we all agree on this--he should be IMO at lot better defensively! Like a Makelele.

BTW, Luiz Gustavo starts for Brazil and Khedira (not long ago) was a regular starter for Germany... I won't go into football pecking order...

1. Yes, even under different managers (apart from probably that first season under Carlo who wanted to make Mikel his Pirlo) I think he's been pretty much misused because he was always used as the player that kept possession rolling, as a holding midfielder. He was rarely given the freedom. You're right in saying it won't happen at Chelsea, fully agree, but I think he should been given more freedom. He would've done a lot better in his Chelsea career if he had.

2. Mediocre to me means poor - maybe we have a different vocabulary in that sense but like I said again I wouldn't call Nigeria mediocre. They aren't a top class team obviously but they definitely are an okay/decent team.

3. I don't think Khedira's a vast improvement on Mikel to be frankly honest, simply because we've got a player like him in Ramires, who's better than him already. Khedira offers nothing to our squad IMHO - but he's still a good DM. Personally I think if we are going to spend on a DM it should be on a world class one, not on a marginal improvement on Mikel. That's my personal opinion on the matter anyway.

4. I don't think Mikel's as bad at attacking as you make him out to be. It just comes down to the fact that he plays in a very restricted role here at CFC.

However, I feel like we're just going around in circles here so let's just agree to disagree. It was a pleasure debating with you.

[iceboy 992]

In the light of the German´s situation, Mourinho called him to see if he would like to play for Chelsea. The Portuguese wants him to lead his midfield and has promised to make him an important player for the London club.

http://www.marca.com/2013/08/02/en/football/real_madrid/1375424029.html

[yuvala 2,167]

In the light of the German´s situation, Mourinho called him to see if he would like to play for Chelsea. The Portuguese wants him to lead his midfield and has promised to make him an important player for the London club.

http://www.marca.com/2013/08/02/en/football/real_madrid/1375424029.html

I call BS.