Chelsea 2-2 Everton

[robsblubot 3,504]

20 hours ago, Reddish-Blue said:

We were nowhere near City in the league.  Pep has shown that he can be beaten by a number of managers but the one thing he does really well is keep the team running smoothly over the course of the season.

We should all be relieved that Tuchel wasn't backed as he is no different to Conte or Mourinho, his methods only work in the short term....and let's not forget his history of falling out with the board at both Dortmund & PSG and funnily enough, he followed the same path at Chelsea. 

Reckon you are Cherry-picking a bit here.

Chelsea was a competitive side under Tuchel and could beat anyone... so much so that they did beat everyone who mattered. Regardless of how one feels about him, or his playing style, fact is that Tuchel won, and won big.

PL today I think is more about squad and that particular possession style than anything else. Pep's high press and possession is the best system for long championships, and the numbers prove that. It's not as effective in single elim evidently.

Edited March 20, 2023 by robsblubot

[LAM09 6,751]

1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said:

PSG have same Messi and Neymar plus Mbappe probably best player in the world I didn't see that working for them. So that argument against Enrique is not fair. 

For starters, are you really comparing this Messi to the one that was at Barcelona? 🤣

Also, there's a reason that front three hasn't worked - none of them are a CF.

Edited March 19, 2023 by LAM09

[Vesper 28,832]

23 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

For starters, are you really comparing this Messi to the one that was at Barcelona? 🤣

Also, there's a reason that front three hasn't worked - none of them are a CF.

PSG Messi is just cashing cheques

we all saw he can still be the best player on the planet at the WC

he doesn't give a toss about PSG

Mbappe does, but he and Neymar hate each other and they are both RWers so inherent imbalance there

PSG are a stitch-up job for any manager that goes in there

Thiago was their heart and soul, along with Cavani

they are gutless when the chips are down after they left, other than Mbappe
 

 

[Clockwork 1,794]

5 hours ago, LAM09 said:

His track record.

He had the best strike force to grace modern-day football, so that stat isn't nearly as impressive as you might believe.  

 

Pep had the greatest side though; Basquets, Xavi, and Ineista were nowhere their best when Enrique was there. I am not saying he is better than Pep, give him the resources he will implement a side that will be at the very least competing for PL. I do not care for his results at Roma and Celta, we are not trying to hire a manager for their level. Potter is a good example, he was doing well at Brighton but it is different level for clubs like Chelsea. What was Carlo track record at Everton and Napoli(better side than Roma)?

He has experience winning the league and CL. Look at the success of Xavi, Arteta, and Pep it is quite clear such football produces the best football in combination with winning. 

Who do you want?

Edited March 19, 2023 by Clockwork

[Tomo 21,733]

7 hours ago, mkh said:

Why don't they install our legend John Terry who knows how to defend in such situations....

Barry can now concentrate on his new role as co-coach of Portugal and finally leave us.

The same Terry who was coach at Villa when they were the worst defense in the league?

There's a difference between leading a defense on the pitch and coaching it!

[LAM09 6,751]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

PSG Messi is just cashing cheques

we all saw he can still be the best player on the planet at the WC

he doesn't give a toss about PSG

Mbappe does, but he and Neymar hate each other and they are both RWers so inherent imbalance there

PSG are a stitch-up job for any manager that goes in there

Thiago was their heart and soul, along with Cavani

they are gutless when the chips are down after they left, other than Mbappe
 

 

That's what happens when money is the driving force. Mbappe is the only notable name that might have joined because of his obvious connection to the club, but him turning down RM on multiple occasions wasn't based on footballing reasons.

28 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

Pep had the greatest side though; Basquets, Xavi, and Ineista were nowhere their best when Enrique was there. I am not saying he is better than Pep, give him the resources he will implement a side that will be at the very least competing for PL. I do not care for his results at Roma and Celta, we are not trying to hire a manager for their level. Potter is a good example, he was doing well at Brighton but it is different level for clubs like Chelsea. What was Carlo track record at Everton and Napoli(better side than Roma)?

He has experience winning the league and CL. Look at the success of Xavi, Arteta, and Pep it is quite clear such football produces the best football in combination with winning. 

Who do you want?

The driving forces were the front three. The bottom line is that; it's up to you to decide if you want to disregard it.

I have no idea why you're using Carlo as an example to support your point since he had a track record before joining us. Also, look at Xavi's & Arteta's record in Europe for starters; the former has failed to get out of the CL group stages for TWO seasons in a row.

To answer your question, Tuchel. I know there's no chance of either party building bridges, so I'm at a loss in that regard. I'd personally wait till the summer at the very least to assess our options before making any hasty decisions, even if we sack Potter in the meantime.

[Clockwork 1,794]

2 hours ago, LAM09 said:

That's what happens when money is the driving force. Mbappe is the only notable name that might have joined because of his obvious connection to the club, but him turning down RM on multiple occasions wasn't based on footballing reasons.

The driving forces were the front three. The bottom line is that; it's up to you to decide if you want to disregard it.

I have no idea why you're using Carlo as an example to support your point since he had a track record before joining us. Also, look at Xavi's & Arteta's record in Europe for starters; the former has failed to get out of the CL group stages for TWO seasons in a row.

To answer your question, Tuchel. I know there's no chance of either party building bridges, so I'm at a loss in that regard. I'd personally wait till the summer at the very least to assess our options before making any hasty decisions, even if we sack Potter in the meantime.

I really do not care about Xavi and Arteta Europe record; Xavi first year and Arteta is just turning things. Europe is kinda hit and miss. I am using Carlo an example when he didn’t coach an elite side Some managers are best suited for top sides, while others are best suited for mid table sides.

Tuchel? Give me a break, he had a few good months of football. His signing were ass; Cacu, Sterling, Lukaku, etc. Potter was a mistake, but i am not forgetting Tuchel crap football.

Obviously we are likely to wait until the summer.

[YorkshireBlue 3,122]

14 hours ago, DDA said:

Yes him... he would do wonders with this squad... Mark my words.

I doubt it, he got given a bunch of youth players in the Spanish team and they were absolutely awful.

[Special Juan 27,429]

Pathetic subs from Potter, negative and clueless

[Reddish-Blue 2,347]

29 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

I doubt it, he got given a bunch of youth players in the Spanish team and they were absolutely awful.

What did people expect him to do?  Turn that average list of players into world champions? 

 

[Reddish-Blue 2,347]

11 hours ago, robsblubot said:

Reckon you are Cherry-picking a bit here.

Chelsea was a competitive side under Tuchel and could beat anyone... so much so that they did beat everyone who mattered. Regardless of how one feels about him, or his playing style, fact is that Tuchel won, and won big.

PL today I think is more about squad and that particular possession style than anything else. Pep's high press and possession is the best system for long championships, and the numbers prove that. It's not as effective in single elim evidently.

He also lost the other cup finals to Klopp (as Chelsea were unable to take chances in front of goal) and winning the UCL is a great achievement but you can't honestly believe that we were "competitive" in the league.  Some of the football under him was borderline pathetic as well (mixed in with top class performances when it mattered). 

Tuchel was simply papering over the cracks, now with Potter, the band-aid is well and truly off and fans get to see just how awful we are. 

[cosmicway 1,323]

It was Dr Jeckyl and mr Haydn with Tuchel in 20-21.
Remember 5-2 defeat to WBA and then lost to Villa (when at the same time Spurs were bottling against Leicester).
But we managed 4th and won the CL.

I 'm the guy who never freaks out about managers.
I have been following Chelsea but other teams as well. What invariably happens is players get old, weigh 175 kilos and the manager pays the ticket.
Or some other horrible vendetta out of nowhere forces the divorce.
I can recall a handful of cases where the above patterns did not apply and it was the manager's fault.
But Potter is unfortunately one of those exceptions.

[robsblubot 3,504]

8 hours ago, Reddish-Blue said:

He also lost the other cup finals to Klopp (as Chelsea were unable to take chances in front of goal) and winning the UCL is a great achievement but you can't honestly believe that we were "competitive" in the league.  Some of the football under him was borderline pathetic as well (mixed in with top class performances when it mattered). 

Tuchel was simply papering over the cracks, now with Potter, the band-aid is well and truly off and fans get to see just how awful we are. 

I think we are talking about slightly different things here.

I agree that we were not competitive in the league in the sense that we did not have a shot at winning it; and once again, aside from City, or another team who can replicate that system (perhaps Arsenal now), that's what is going to be winning the league most seasons.

The point I, and perhaps others here, have been making is that that Tuchel team could beat anyone; they were competitive in that sense... so much so that we beat Madrid (w/ dominant performances I might add) and City in the final. I remember fans and press saying Pep lost because he changed the team for the final, but he changed the team *because* he thought he would've lost soundly without changing the team.

"Some of the football under him was borderline pathetic" this we just agree to disagree. I very much liked that style of play, and think that any lack of creativity was more down to the lack of such player(s) than anything else. He worked with the squad he had and to their strengths.
The tricky part these days is getting that creative skill without losing the competitiveness; getting players who can be inventive, but *also* press high with high work rate. It's extremely difficult and reckon some of the new signing ain't that.

Edited March 20, 2023 by robsblubot

[LAM09 6,751]

14 hours ago, Clockwork said:

I really do not care about Xavi and Arteta Europe record; Xavi first year and Arteta is just turning things. Europe is kinda hit and miss. I am using Carlo an example when he didn’t coach an elite side Some managers are best suited for top sides, while others are best suited for mid table sides.

Tuchel? Give me a break, he had a few good months of football. His signing were ass; Cacu, Sterling, Lukaku, etc. Potter was a mistake, but i am not forgetting Tuchel crap football.

Obviously we are likely to wait until the summer.

I see you're picking and choosing plus points as you see fit.

A few good months, aka reaching back-to-back CL finals, and boasts the best CL win ratio over 50 games. I needn't say more. Lukaku was HIS signing... 🤣

9 hours ago, Reddish-Blue said:

He also lost the other cup finals to Klopp (as Chelsea were unable to take chances in front of goal) and winning the UCL is a great achievement but you can't honestly believe that we were "competitive" in the league.  Some of the football under him was borderline pathetic as well (mixed in with top class performances when it mattered). 

Just rewatch the Carabao Cup final and tell me how that defeat was his fault. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by LAM09

[Hamilton 2,120]

On 18/03/2023 at 20:37, Vesper said:

teams in the CL do not play low block against us

I know, don’t know exactly what your saying. So when we get ahead against such low block (two times) we should be able to finish the game, no?

Only saw the 2-2 from Everton, but what I was saying is that it looks our defence is more motivated/focused in Europe..

But hey, reading most posts on here it looks that Potter went coward mode with his subs, and we went back to mediocrity after some good weeks..

[Reddish-Blue 2,347]

16 hours ago, robsblubot said:

"Some of the football under him was borderline pathetic" this we just agree to disagree. I very much liked that style of play, and think that any lack of creativity was more down to the lack of such player(s) than anything else. He worked with the squad he had and to their strengths.
The tricky part these days is getting that creative skill without losing the competitiveness; getting players who can be inventive, but *also* press high with high work rate. It's extremely difficult and reckon some of the new signing ain't that.

I disagree about utilizing the squad to their strengths.  I think what Tuchel lacked was the ability to keep the attackers happy and motivated throughout the season.  It's interesting how most of the attackers that he managed at Chelsea (Pulisic, Ziyech, Werner) mentioned that they weren't really given much freedom to express themselves on the pitch and it was more about the team game and trying to ensure we had control of possession. 

16 hours ago, robsblubot said:

The point I, and perhaps others here, have been making is that that Tuchel team could beat anyone; they were competitive in that sense... so much so that we beat Madrid (w/ dominant performances I might add) and City in the final.

Again, you are just mentioning the UCL run and the good performances in that period but if you actually go back and look at the league results, they weren't great for a team that was capable of beating anyone.    As I said before, Tuchel developed the team for cup finals rather than for the league as we barely dragged ourselves over the line for top 4. 

[dimmas 126]

Tuchel's team good performance only happened in ucl campaign, beside that most of his team performance under him was really inconsistent and subpar at the best.

Don't know how you could think, we were team that capable of beating anyone.

It's not just handful games were we really mediocre and awful to watch. Most of the team performance under tuchel regime, was really frustrating aswell, too many mediocre performance and one dimensional too.

In the last 8-10 months, i really couldn't bare to watched our attacking play, it's like tuchel only coach that team to creating chances only by 2 method, hurt opponent on the counter and send a lot of crossing over and over again from our fullback

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by dimmas

[YorkshireBlue 3,122]

2 hours ago, Reddish-Blue said:

I disagree about utilizing the squad to their strengths.  I think what Tuchel lacked was the ability to keep the attackers happy and motivated throughout the season.  It's interesting how most of the attackers that he managed at Chelsea (Pulisic, Ziyech, Werner) mentioned that they weren't really given much freedom to express themselves on the pitch and it was more about the team game and trying to ensure we had control of possession. 

Again, you are just mentioning the UCL run and the good performances in that period but if you actually go back and look at the league results, they weren't great for a team that was capable of beating anyone.    As I said before, Tuchel developed the team for cup finals rather than for the league as we barely dragged ourselves over the line for top 4. 

TT is loved because of the CL trophy and the comments he made during the sanctions about the war. His team was boring to watch, but again people forget this because it was fun to watch him on the touch line, GP is boring to watch on the touchline and not really boring football to watch more frustrating, I agree at this point he needs to go, do I think he's a bad manager? Hell no, do I think he could of done well here? Damn right I do, problem is he got his one chance and he ruined it, not brave enough poor decision! Problem now is this is a massive learning curve for potter at our expense, and I do expect him to get a big job again and I guarantee he doesn't make these same mistakes again and turns a team into a monster. Poch will more than likely end up at spurs, Conte needs rehab, TT I wouldn't welcome back, and Enrique 🤣 have a word? I'll leave @Vesper to compile a list her knowledge far outweighs mine, but I imagine the options are few and far between.