Chelsea Transfers

[robsblubot 3,322]

30 minutes ago, Vesper said:

54 total goals produced 10 years ago for us

19 goals and THIRTY-FIVE assists

Havertz can but DREAM of numbers like that

No argument there. He was an assist machine, and could strike the ball like few other players--better than Eden for ex.

At the same time, he wasn't all rounded. He was physically weak, and at the same time not quick enough to avoid contact, which made him somewhat of an easy prey in big games in tight spaces. He had somewhat low workrate and for that reason could not press high very well. He could still strike the ball like few others, so could still contribute even when not finding spaces. 

I think he was a very good player, but a bit single-dimensional like Fabregas and many others were. I know when you say "overrated" people immediately think you don't rate a player, but that's not the case here.

I'm just not that crazy about that type of player esp in the modern game. I prefer all players firing in all cylinders at all times.

Edited June 14, 2023 by robsblubot

[OneMoSalah 8,663]

21 minutes ago, Tomo said:

In the case of Van De Beek one of the "other managers" is Ten Hag himself.

I'd say it was more the Dutch league that inflated their percieved ability, as good as that one European campaign (which still had the end result of blowing a 3 goal lead to bloody Tottenham) was, it was effectively a Leicester esque phenomenon.

Perhaps.

I think with VdB at United and even his spell Everton, he isn’t necessarily a typical number 10 or a typical number 8 - he’s a weird player to categorise. At Ajax he and Tadic both seemed to interchange and play in this weird withdrawn CF role, particularly in CL games. Not a bad player and not a bad skillset as typically to be expected coming from Holland and Ajax but maybe just not suited to a top top club. Or PL football in a more rigid system. 

Point regarding Dutch league is also valid but the likes of Ziyech, VdB, FdJ, de Ligt all got big moves after working with ten Haag. There are different levels of ability and talent there but I think he’s shown he can bring the best out of certain players and bring them on. Has shown this particularly with likes of Marcus Rashford, Bruno Fernandes and Luke Shaw already at United. Granted Fernandes maybe stat pads certain performances but there seemed to be a bit more of that impact he had when he first arrived there last season than the huge disappearing acts he would do at times in the season before last. Likes of Shaw & Rashford would of probably been chased out of OT with pitchforks before he came in.

Thats why I get the feeling there is still enough there and enough about Mount that someone like ten Haag, Klopp or Poch could get him back on the right path but if he doesn’t want to he here, can’t force him to stay. Not expecting him to go on and become absolutely top top level but as we’ve seen under Tuchel in the CL run, on his day he can make a big impact.

[Pizy 17,992]

1 minute ago, ZAPHOD2319 said:

I have no problem selling our under performing players to rivals so they can under perform there too. I look forward to my Arsenal friends moaning loudly....please stop buying Chelsea rejects!!!

It just feels different to me depending on the position they play. Seeing Jorginho or Kova doin the same sort of boring stuff in midfield they did here doesn’t bother me at all. 
 

But when we see Havertz banging in goals for a rival it will be extremely annoying. Especially for the club I despise more than any other.

[Superblue 6,346]

A little patience needed. I think over the coming weeks we'll see a bit of a domino effect at the club with regards to incomings and outgoings but it's still very early days so far and the club should always look to drive a hard bargain in negotiations first anyway.

I think the outgoings are significantly more important to get done regardless. Considering the squad will be freshened up a little bit with returning loanees, if we only sold players this summer and didn't buy anyone, I still think with a smaller and more settled group, we'd perform a lot better next season anyway.

One thing to note regarding the outgoings is if the 30th June is a "cut off" period for the seasons FFP, some of the players we're looking to move on will likely be done after this date, so any potential FFP losses on deals can be absorbed in next year's books instead. For example, release Auba now and his full transfer value will fall into last season's FFP. Release Auba in July and the transfer fee will be split in half over last season and this one. The likes of Koulibaly, Lukaku, Kepa, Cucurella could all fall into a similar position, where pushing their amortisation into another season before trying to move them on may help with being able to sell them for a loss.

 

[robsblubot 3,322]

7 minutes ago, Pizy said:

It just feels different to me depending on the position they play. Seeing Jorginho or Kova doin the same sort of boring stuff in midfield they did here doesn’t bother me at all. 
 

But when we see Havertz banging in goals for a rival it will be extremely annoying. Especially for the club I despise more than any other.

indeed. Kai could become a thorn if he gets back to some sort of form.

Jorginho I wasn't much bothered with, but Kova will fit City's system too well for my taste.

"the same sort of boring stuff in midfield" that's literally City's system: most players do boring stuff 99% of the time until someone finds a little bit of space and creates something. Easier when it's a KDB who finds that space tho.

Edited June 14, 2023 by robsblubot

[ZAPHOD2319 4,092]

4 minutes ago, Pizy said:

It just feels different to me depending on the position they play. Seeing Jorginho or Kova doin the same sort of boring stuff in midfield they did here doesn’t bother me at all. 
 

But when we see Havertz banging in goals for a rival it will be extremely annoying. Especially for the club I despise more than any other.

I will believe that Kai starts banging in goals when I see it. He had one great goal for the UCL. On a week in week out basis, he has been incredibly erratic. I just can't see him all of the sudden become the generational talent he was supposed to be when we bought him.

 

This is Kai

In the English Premier League season 2022/23, Kai Havertz played 27 matches (plus 5 as a sub). They had 30 shots on target from a total of 57 shots and scored 7 goals (11.27 xG).

[Reddish-Blue 2,252]

8 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Perhaps.

I think with VdB at United and even his spell Everton, he isn’t necessarily a typical number 10 or a typical number 8 - he’s a weird player to categorise. At Ajax he and Tadic both seemed to interchange and play in this weird withdrawn CF role, particularly in CL games. Not a bad player and not a bad skillset as typically to be expected coming from Holland and Ajax but maybe just not suited to a top top club. Or PL football in a more rigid system. 

Point regarding Dutch league is also valid but the likes of Ziyech, VdB, FdJ, de Ligt all got big moves after working with ten Haag. There are different levels of ability and talent there but I think he’s shown he can bring the best out of certain players and bring them on. Has shown this particularly with likes of Marcus Rashford, Bruno Fernandes and Luke Shaw already at United. Granted Fernandes maybe stat pads certain performances but there seemed to be a bit more of that impact he had when he first arrived there last season than the huge disappearing acts he would do at times in the season before last. Likes of Shaw & Rashford would of probably been chased out of OT with pitchforks before he came in.

Thats why I get the feeling there is still enough there and enough about Mount that someone like ten Haag, Klopp or Poch could get him back on the right path but if he doesn’t want to he here, can’t force him to stay. Not expecting him to go on and become absolutely top top level but as we’ve seen under Tuchel in the CL run, on his day he can make a big impact.

With Mount, the question will always be consistency and goals/assists from midfield.   If he can improve his goals/assists for his next club then they will most definitely get a very solid midfielder. 

We all know what Mount "can" do when he feels like it but in the same way, he also threw in the towel early this season when things weren't going his way (even rejecting contract offers from the club that brought him through). 

I would be far more concerned if Mount ended up at Liverpool as I feel Klopp would make him top class as he loves pressing machines over there.   I guess he would still be an upgrade on McTom/Fred in the United midfield setup. 

[Gundalf 777]

So far for the "is closing in" and "is pushing hard" and "close to" blahblah. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Gundalf

[Reddish-Blue 2,252]

10 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

indeed.

Jorginho I wasn't much bothered with, but Kova will fit City's system too well for my taste.

"the same sort of boring stuff in midfield" that's literally City's system: most players do boring stuff 99% of the time until someone finds a little bit of space and creates something. Easier when it's a KDB who finds that space tho.

Kovacic has been playing in 2nd/3rd gear all season, you can tell his mind is elsewhere and he's been working a move for the past few months. 

It is a shame that he's going to the champions in City and adding even more depth to that roster but it could also be a good thing as the club will finally need to invest into the midfield and give Enzo a solid partner for the next 5+ years. 

[YorkshireBlue 2,927]

Did I just read that....... Hang on it's a struggle to even type..... Mata is .... Overated? 

[robsblubot 3,322]

17 minutes ago, Reddish-Blue said:

Kovacic has been playing in 2nd/3rd gear all season, you can tell his mind is elsewhere and he's been working a move for the past few months. 

It is a shame that he's going to the champions in City and adding even more depth to that roster but it could also be a good thing as the club will finally need to invest into the midfield and give Enzo a solid partner for the next 5+ years. 

Certainly. on the other hand I wonder how much the disarray at the club is affecting the players. If we cut (a lot of) slack for some of the new signings, the same can be said about the established players. Not a whole lot to be done at this point, but I'm pessimistic considering what I know about the owners.

[chelsea_4_eva 1,144]

Imagine selling Havertz to Arsenal, Mount to Man U and Kova to City, and still have the likes of Ziyech, Puli, Lukaku, RLC, Sarr still in the squad for next season.

[Vesper 27,676]

3 hours ago, Vegetable said:

Caicedo seemed PSG-bound the last time I had checked 😀 Maignan openly said he's not interested (not like we had picked Mendy over him a while ago), Skriniar one feet in PSG,

I have seen no reputable link to PSG for Caicedo and they just gazumped us on Ugarte, another high quality DMF

Skriniar (my number 2 CB want last summer and especially winter, after Gvardiol) to PSG has been done for months, he is a PSG player

do not care about Mike Maignan, other than I rate him more than Onana, who I do NOT want

my 'want want¨line-up, over the past 2 or so years

would have yielded

GK Oblak

CB Gvardiol (before Gvardiol's rise, I so wanted Marquinhos) I admit I never (stupidly) went full boil over Ruben Dias, I missed that call

CB Skriniar and/or Ronald Araújo (hell, BOTH!) The 5 CBs I listed on this list are (along with, if he is fully healthy, Thiago, for one more season) the best CBs on the planet IMHO

LB Nuno Mendes before PSG bought him (still would SO take him, but its a pipe dream now) and for a long spell, pre defensive collapse, Theo. Alphonso Davis is on the mix atm as well (not that he would come here I fear)

RB Reece (wanted Hakimi too as he can play winger and attacking wide MF too)

DMF Tchou in 2021. I also loved Bruno Guimarães going back to Brasil league days, and Sandro Tonali

Pivot DMF/CMF  Nicolò Barella (IF Tchou was in the bag, Enzo was fine) Bellingham was my youth dream before Dortmund grabbed him

AMF/SS Nkunku (Arsen Zakharyan as youth buy), wish to fuck we could have kept Jamal Musiala

LW  Federico Chiesa (before he was injured) then Karim Adeyemi (obviously now the best remotely available non Mbappe/Vini Jr option is Khvicha Kvaratskhelia, but his cost would be insane)

RW    Ousmane Dembélé (Chiesa can play RW too)

CF    Victor Osimhen (before he went to Napoli, and also still covet, but, like Kvicha, insanely expensive now (hello Lufuckingkaku shit buy), along with (when he was at Fiorentina) Dusan Vlahovic (jury is out on him now) I love Rasmus Højlund now

 

 

 

[OneMoSalah 8,663]

1 hour ago, robsblubot said:

No argument there. He was an assist machine, and could strike the ball like few other players--better than Eden for ex.

At the same time, he wasn't all rounded. He was physically weak, and at the same time not quick enough to avoid contact, which made him somewhat of an easy prey in big games in tight spaces. He had somewhat low workrate and for that reason could not press high very well. He could still strike the ball like few others, so could still contribute even when not finding spaces. 

I think he was a very good player, but a bit single-dimensional like Fabregas and many others were. I know when you say "overrated" people immediately think you don't rate a player, but that's not the case here.

I'm just not that crazy about that type of player esp in the modern game. I prefer all players firing in all cylinders at all times.

Mata and Fabregas “a bit single dimensional” as players? Good god. Just stop. Wow. Please.

Yes if Mata and Fabregas (who is still already one of the best PL midfielders of all time - even more impressive for supposedly being ‘a bit one dimensional’) were more athletic they’d of been better. Or in modern day football maybe bit they were still top top players. All players have weaknesses.

In particular I believed Mata when he was here could have become more if he stayed and done what he did for another couple of seasons as he was one of the most technically gifted and talented footballers I’ve ever seen in the flesh but not overly convinced Mourinho knew how to implement him into his system. But the issue was also apparent as we seen with KdB and I think that this high pressing Klopp/Pep style also phased his kind out. But Benitez also a defensive, disciplined manager seemed to find a way to use Mata as a 10 whilst Mourinho effectively refused to so I don’t think Mourinho can say he got that one completely right. But Mata’s career never ever hit the heights after leaving here. 

The point about Fabregas is even more mind blowing, he was a key part of winning 2 European Championships and a World Cup for arguably the best generation of Spanish players their ever will be as well as being part of one of the best club sides ever in that 4 year period with Pep. But sure he was a bit single dimensional…..

[Vesper 27,676]

1 hour ago, robsblubot said:

single-dimensional like Fabregas

oh for a 'single dimensional' player like even semi prime Fabregas the last two seasons!!

one of the greatest EPL players ever, criminally underrated, 2nd in all time EPL assists (De Bruyne will pass him, and may pass Giggs)

insane career

one of my top 10 ever favourite players who played when I was old enough to understand football even as a very young child

830 topflight games for club and country (110 caps, all time Spain assist leader, WC and double Euro champion)

388 total goals produced

140 goals 248 assists

Arsenal

FA Cup: 2004–05
FA Community Shield: 2004
UEFA Champions League runner-up: 2005–06

Barcelona (bad timing, his time there was right in between most of their wins in CL, the only major trophy he never won, as he lost to Barca with Arse in 2006)

La Liga: 2012–13
Copa del Rey: 2011–12
Supercopa de España: 2011, 2013
UEFA Super Cup: 2011
FIFA Club World Cup: 2011

Chelsea

Premier League: 2014–15, 2016–17
FA Cup: 2017–18
Football League Cup: 2014–15

Spain

FIFA World Cup: 2010
UEFA European Championship: 2008, 2012

Edited June 14, 2023 by Vesper

[turgi 71]

why do we even pick up the phone when inter calls? let aloe go to meet with them?

[Vesper 27,676]

12 minutes ago, turgi said:

why do we even pick up the phone when inter calls? let aloe go to meet with them?

chance to jet over to Milano for some quick shopping?

lolol

and the FOOD! 🖤

 

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Vesper

[robsblubot 3,322]

1 minute ago, OneMoSalah said:

Mata and Fabregas “a bit single dimensional” as players? Good god. Just stop. Wow. Please.

Yes if Mata and Fabregas (who is still already one of the best PL midfielders of all time - even more impressive for supposedly being ‘a bit one dimensional’) were more athletic they’d of been better. Or in modern day football maybe bit they were still top top players. All players have weaknesses.

In particular I believed Mata when he was here could have become more if he stayed and done what he did for another couple of seasons as he was one of the most technically gifted and talented footballers I’ve ever seen in the flesh but not overly convinced Mourinho knew how to implement him into his system. But the issue was also apparent as we seen with KdB and I think that this high pressing Klopp/Pep style also phased his kind out. But Benitez also a defensive, disciplined manager seemed to find a way to use Mata as a 10 whilst Mourinho effectively refused to so I don’t think Mourinho can say he got that one completely right. But Mata’s career never ever hit the heights after leaving here. 

The point about Fabregas is even more mind blowing, he was a key part of winning 2 European Championships and a World Cup for arguably the best generation of Spanish players their ever will be as well as being part of one of the best club sides ever in that 4 year period with Pep. But sure he was a bit single dimensional…..

I already wrote what I saw in Mata's game: his weaknesses were glaring to me and I listed them just the way I saw it. Don't remember Mata being that influential for Spain either. He did look pretty bad at United -- did not miss him then.

Fabregas was not athletic. lol He was one of the slowest CMs I've ever seen. 🙂 I happened to be playing Football Manager at the time he was a Chelsea player (yes he had better fitness levels at arsenal but not that much better), and he happened to have the lowest pace numbers of all PL CMs. He could barely finish a game and was a sure sub in all matches. Yes, he could pass the ball like few could, but that's exactly what I call single dimensional. Also a player who never really lit the world on fire at the international level.

"All players have weaknesses."

That's exactly how I see football.