Chelsea Transfers

[Simon1991 233]

Just now, LAM09 said:

I never mentioned racism at all. I just pointed out that Africans aren't viewed the same way.

The post that originally started this conversation is a prime example of exactly that point.

There's a reason Weah is still the only African to win the Ballon d'Or, and it has nothing to do with the talent of those who have followed him.

Wasn't it implied here? That's certainly how i read your post and i am sure many others would arrive to the same conclusions.

[LAM09 7,085]

2 minutes ago, Simon1991 said:

There's a reason Weah is still the only African to win the Ballon d'Or, and it has nothing to do with the talent of those who have followed him.

Wasn't it implied here? That's certainly how i read your post and i am sure many others would arrive to the same conclusions.

No. You presumed that. 

Discrimination comes in many forms. 

[Simon1991 233]

Just now, LAM09 said:

No. You presumed that. 

Discrimination comes in many forms. 

Ok so what do you mean exactly?

[robsblubot 3,595]

1 hour ago, didi007 said:

Yes. Check out the French team. It’s full of Africans….Wes Fofana is Ivorian, and where do you think Kante, Pogba, Mbappe, Dembele and Makele, Desailly …. jeez the list goes on and on are originally from????

Yes, when did they all arrive and how much did they benefit from French footballing knowledge? Suspect each case may be different. Pogba and Dembele are extremely tactically undisciplined in my view; they make every other player around them having to work harder. Kante is very well disciplined, but now you are talking about specific examples, which could very well be exceptions -- suspect France international players are all by definition, the exception.

Once again, it does not matter where they are originally from, I do not care where people were born, but where they learned football, youth development, and as young professional players. The quality and knowledge the players and coaches they had access to, and how successful they were/are. It's common for ex Brazilian WC winners to become coaches, which I'd imagine helps develop the young as they pass on their experiences and knowledge.

It's amazing, for example, how good Pulisic is considering where he develop his game -- likely one of the worst places on earth to develop as a footballer.

I hardly think Mbappe would've been half as good, had his family moved to the USA for example. Maybe a basketball, or am football player, but never a footballer.

Edited June 15, 2023 by robsblubot

[LAM09 7,085]

5 minutes ago, Simon1991 said:

Ok so what do you mean exactly?

I gave an example above. People think footballers of African descent lack the mental capability or have difficulty grasping the tactical side of the game.

What on earth is that?! 

I could write a whole list of issues with regards to how African players are viewed by their counterparts, but this is a "Chelsea transfers" thread, not discrimination 101.

[Mhsc 1,139]

Feels like we are getting Caicedo, another situation where some things have been agreed and it’s just a matter of time unless PSG come out of nowhere again?

Enzo and Caicedo is some kind of youth team wet dream but where is the experience and leadership? Back in time all of our CMs were international captains…

[ZAPHOD2319 4,942]

 

[ZAPHOD2319 4,942]

 

[Mário César 1,475]

We will get diogo costa and not onana

[Simon1991 233]

Just now, LAM09 said:

I gave an example above. People think footballers of African descent lack the mental capability or have difficulty grasping the tactical side of the game.

What on earth is that?! 

I could write a whole list of issues with regards to how African players are viewed by their counterparts, but this is a "Chelsea transfers" thread, not discrimination 101.

Not what he said at all, lol. But yeah let's move on.

[Vegetable 830]

1 minute ago, Mário César said:

We will get diogo costa and not onana

Misread it as Diego Costa and thought "oh, actually, I'm fine with that"…

[LAM09 7,085]

9 minutes ago, Simon1991 said:

Not what he said at all, lol. But yeah let's move on.

  "have difficulty grasping the tactical side of the game"

4 hours ago, robsblubot said:

Absolutely! and African players often lack tactical discipline -- not a super nice thing to point out, but it is what it is.

🙄

[JFKvsNixon 61]

1 hour ago, LAM09 said:

Just take a look at African WC qualifying, for starters, and you'll see most of the best nations have a hard time reaching a WC, let alone performing on the biggest stages. Also, if there are other people with the same train of thought as you who are seemingly profiling people from the Africa as being inept in one way or another, you can see why it's an uphill battle for them to even be treated fairly.

There's a reason Weah is still the only African to win the Ballon d'Or, and it has nothing to do with the talent of those who have followed him.

I remember watching Weah hit the post and the crossbar for Chelsea in a 1-0 defeat against Sheffield Wednesday. It was the Saturday before the return with Barcelona which we won the first leg 3-1 after leading 3-0, so Vialli played a lot of fringe players and it showed in a depressingly sterile performance.

 

[robsblubot 3,595]

1 hour ago, LAM09 said:

I gave an example above. People think footballers of African descent lack the mental capability or have difficulty grasping the tactical side of the game.

What on earth is that?! 

I could write a whole list of issues with regards to how African players are viewed by their counterparts, but this is a "Chelsea transfers" thread, not discrimination 101.

First, please do not put words in my mouth. I did not write the quotation you made, nor have an indicated that's what I believe. In fact, I sure don't and it never had crossed my mind until I saw your nasty quote. So, thank you for that... not! 😞

My opinion mostly come from actually watching African nations play football, btw. It's pretty obvious to me when I watched them play over the years. I vividly remember Nigeria playing Uruguay when Mikel (sic) was still playing for the Super Eagles. Nigeria was all over the place, while Uruguay was tidy. They were both pretty bad teams, but the one thing that was clear to me was the tactical discipline of Uruguay. This is hardly a one time thing and I've seen this over numerous World Cups and other competitions. The word Brazilian commentators use for African football is (tactically) "naive", so I'm hardly alone in that.

I also mentioned Mexico: they are considered a "footballing" nation and have little to nothing to show for it. This is not about being nice or not, deserving or not, It's about competing and winning. Some have and they carry the knowledge of winning with them. They can then pass on to the young and develop better players; it's a cycle.

Now if you want to read more into it other than it is a fucking game, that's on you.

Edited June 15, 2023 by robsblubot

[Mário César 1,475]

37 minutes ago, Vegetable said:

Misread it as Diego Costa and thought "oh, actually, I'm fine with that"…

porto need to sell and they are in talks with united

if united get onana, I really see us getting him for 50M euros

[Reddish-Blue 2,665]

5 minutes ago, Mário César said:

porto need to sell and they are in talks with united

if united get onana, I really see us getting him for 50M euros

@Mário César how good is he?      feel like we need a quality #1 GK at the club, haven't really had one since Courtois left us for Real Madrid

[Reddish-Blue 2,665]

52 minutes ago, Mhsc said:

Feels like we are getting Caicedo, another situation where some things have been agreed and it’s just a matter of time unless PSG come out of nowhere again?

Enzo and Caicedo is some kind of youth team wet dream but where is the experience and leadership? Back in time all of our CMs were international captains…

Caicedo is the Kante replacement we've needed for the last season and a half...

 

 

[Mário César 1,475]

Just now, Reddish-Blue said:

@Mário César how good is he?      feel like we need a quality #1 GK at the club, haven't really had one since Courtois left us for Real Madrid

he's great 

better we can get at this moment but I have doubts that he is ready to a epl team that challlenge for titles

all players that came from weakest leagues its always a risk but he is a good player. 

I think he could be the best we can get 

if you ask me if I prefer see Chelsea buy onana for 80M euros (crazy offer) or offer 50M€ for Diogo Costa I prefer the second choic

its suits us better and its suits better in our overall budget

Last year I see Todd pay crazy money for onana.

we need to be smart! 

[LAM09 7,085]

44 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

Mostly come from actually watching African nations play football, btw. It's pretty obvious to me when I watched them play over the years. I vividly remember Nigeria playing Uruguay when Mikel (sic) was still playing for the Super Eagles. Nigeria was all over the place, while Uruguay was tidy. They were both pretty bad teams, but the one thing that was clear to me was the tactical discipline of Uruguay. This is hardly a one time thing and I've seen this over numerous World Cups and other competitions. The word Brazilian commentators use for African football is (tactically) "naive", so I'm hardly alone in that.

I also mentioned Mexico: they are considered a "footballing" nation and have little to nothing to show for it. This is not about being nice or not, deserving or not, It's about competing and winning. Some have and they carry the knowledge of winning with them. They can then pass on to the young and develop better players; it's a cycle.

Now if you want to read more into it other than it is a fucking game, that's on you.

Were Morocco tactically naive on their way to the WC semis 6 months ago?

I made a brief mention of the problems that, in general, affect African football. Whether it was your intention or not, the way you phrased your post lumped all people from Africa together, which is incorrect on so many ways. The dearth of the best coaching available to players on the continent itself may cause them to play at World Cups with less tactical awareness than the majority of SA nations, which have players who mostly compete in Europe's top leagues.

Once again, Africans as a whole don't inherently lack tactical awareness; those still playing on the continent or who moved to Europe relatively late in footballing terms (23+) might have those issues, but Africans that were either born in Europe (most of the Morocco squad in Qatar) or individuals like Ndidi, Salah, or Mane who came early on in their careers don't lack it.

This misconception needs to be banished.

Edit - Nice change to your post. I'm not going to go round in circles.

Edited June 15, 2023 by LAM09

[Pizy 19,252]

Seems like the United ownership stuff could be finalized soon and that they’ll soon be a state owned club. So hopefully we can get Caicedo and a couple of others done before the new owners start throwing wages we can’t touch at players.