Chelsea Transfers

[ulvhedin 526]

31 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Was far from impressed with Leao last night. Don't get me wrong, he clearly has talent and he's a big lad, someone I don't think that would get bullied physically in the Premier League. But his general attitude, demeanour, work rate off the ball were beyond shambolic. 

There are times you can carry one player somewhat if they are producing the goods, I know this was the case with Hazard previously but Leao isn't Eden Hazard level and Hazard was an extremely humble player who played for the team, would happily carry the burden of the team on his back. Once Reece got stuck into him after half time, Leao wilted and hid away. 

Maybe there's additional levels to his game to come over time, and he'll show up more at the San Siro next week but I just don't think currently the talent justifies the attitude I saw on the pitch last night and whilst they're not necessarily the same profile of player, if you're giving me the option of a new attacking signing next summer out of Nkunku and Leao, it's Nkunku for me even at the same price let alone Leao likely being significantly more expensive.

Wouldn't judge level of his playing after yesterday game, when he was the only one trying to make things happen. His attitude and off-the ball workrate on the other hand - completely agree with you.

[Superblue 6,372]

8 hours ago, ulvhedin said:

Wouldn't judge level of his playing after yesterday game, when he was the only one trying to make things happen. His attitude and off-the ball workrate on the other hand - completely agree with you.

Granted he wasn't aided by Milan's approach to the game which seemed to be almost entirely a damage control exercise but I still would have expected him to try and do more.

I go back to Hazard who had very little appetite to defend and track back for the team but in times where the team were struggling he would always try to drift around to get on the ball and make things happen. Leao seemed content with staying wide and if the ball didn't reach him then too bad. 

[OneMoSalah 9,104]

On 05/10/2022 at 13:47, LAM09 said:

He isn't exactly a nobody (Swiss international for quite some time, plenty of European experience, etc). As an option, it should have been a no-brainer, considering what I mentioned & Dortmund's eagerness to sell. We decided to actively go after Kimpembe ahead of him. That in itself is where the problem lies.

No he’s not a nobody perhaps but he’s hardly a elite level central defender. I mean he’s a reasonably solid squad player and even then, you can bet Pep won’t pick him regularly when he has all his CBs back fit and available, I mean hes no better than Ake and hes a pretty average CB.

Dortmund were eager to sell because he had 1 year left on his deal and he declined a new contract, plus anyone who’s watched Dortmund over the years know he hasn’t exactly been a revelation for them and they could afford to let him go. I mean I think him going to City was a surprise for many, he was available for transfer all summer and nobody went for him at that price barring City at the last minute due to Ake picking up an injury on top of the already injured Laporte not being closer to fitness.

But because he’s doing well for City (think he’s played 4 games, Seville, Dortmund, Wolves and United - ironically two teams have ended up sacking their managers for very subpar performances this season - particularly in attack) we should have “been all over him” as if he is any better than who we went after or who we signed. 

If people said last summer we should replace Rudiger or Christensen with Akanji, they would of laughed. We needed to target top level CBs to replace the 2 good players we lost. Not a rotational player/squad player in that position because Azpi and Chalobah can already do that roles. If he plays for City regularly for 2 or 3 years when everyone’s fit I will eat my words but I significantly doubt it.

Also without question Kimpbembe is a vastly superior player, absolutely, so makes sense why we were going after him. Even without considering the more obvious reason of his quality, he is a mobile, strong, left sided central defender who is comfortable in a back 3 or 4. Which would of been a pretty good buy to take Rudigers role as TT continued with a back 3.

Edited October 7, 2022 by OneMoSalah

[Vesper 31,110]

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

No he’s not a nobody perhaps but he’s hardly a elite level central defender. I mean he’s a reasonably solid squad player and even then, you can bet Pep won’t pick him regularly when he has all his CBs back fit and available, I mean hes no better than Ake and hes a pretty average CB.

Dortmund were eager to sell because he had 1 year left on his deal and he declined a new contract, plus anyone who’s watched Dortmund over the years know he hasn’t exactly been a revelation for them and they could afford to let him go. I mean I think him going to City was a surprise for many, he was available for transfer all summer and nobody went for him at that price barring City at the last minute due to Ake picking up an injury on top of the already injured Laporte not being closer to fitness.

But because he’s doing well for City (think he’s played 4 games, Seville, Dortmund, Wolves and United - ironically two teams have ended up sacking their managers for very subpar performances this season - particularly in attack) we should have “been all over him” as if he is any better than who we went after or who we signed. 

If people said last summer we should replace Rudiger or Christensen with Akanji, they would of laughed. We needed to target top level CBs to replace the 2 good players we lost. Not a rotational player/squad player in that position because Azpi and Chalobah can already do that roles. If he plays for City regularly for 2 or 3 years when everyone’s fit I will eat my words but I significantly doubt it.

Also without question Kimpbembe is a vastly superior player, absolutely, so makes sense why we were going after him. Even without considering the more obvious reason of his quality, he is a mobile, strong, left sided central defender who is comfortable in a back 3 or 4. Which would of been a pretty good buy to take Rudigers role as TT continued with a back 3.

Only left-footed CBs whom I rate for us atm

  
Josko Gvardiol   
Alessandro Bastoni  

Presnel Kimpembe

Evan Ndicka
Pau Torres    
Aymeric Laporte 
Lucas Hernández  
Gonçalo Inácio   
 

Youth

Castello Lukeba    
Morato 
Mattia Viti
Isaak Touré    
El Chadaille Bitshiabu       

[Reddish-Blue 2,676]

3 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

No he’s not a nobody perhaps but he’s hardly a elite level central defender. I mean he’s a reasonably solid squad player and even then, you can bet Pep won’t pick him regularly when he has all his CBs back fit and available, I mean hes no better than Ake and hes a pretty average CB.

Dortmund were eager to sell because he had 1 year left on his deal and he declined a new contract, plus anyone who’s watched Dortmund over the years know he hasn’t exactly been a revelation for them and they could afford to let him go. I mean I think him going to City was a surprise for many, he was available for transfer all summer and nobody went for him at that price barring City at the last minute due to Ake picking up an injury on top of the already injured Laporte not being closer to fitness.

But because he’s doing well for City (think he’s played 4 games, Seville, Dortmund, Wolves and United - ironically two teams have ended up sacking their managers for very subpar performances this season - particularly in attack) we should have “been all over him” as if he is any better than who we went after or who we signed. 

If people said last summer we should replace Rudiger or Christensen with Akanji, they would of laughed. We needed to target top level CBs to replace the 2 good players we lost. Not a rotational player/squad player in that position because Azpi and Chalobah can already do that roles. If he plays for City regularly for 2 or 3 years when everyone’s fit I will eat my words but I significantly doubt it.

Also without question Kimpbembe is a vastly superior player, absolutely, so makes sense why we were going after him. Even without considering the more obvious reason of his quality, he is a mobile, strong, left sided central defender who is comfortable in a back 3 or 4. Which would of been a pretty good buy to take Rudigers role as TT continued with a back 3.

We still don't have our Rudiger replacement.  Fofana is a work in progress (massive talent but long way to go) and Koulibaly has looked below average so far. 

It's a pretty big concern that our defense is still heavily dependent upon 50 year old Thiago Silva being fit for the whole season.

[Reddish-Blue 2,676]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

Only left-footed CBs whom I rate for us atm

  
Josko Gvardiol   
Alessandro Bastoni  

Presnel Kimpembe

Evan Ndicka
Pau Torres    
Aymeric Laporte 
Lucas Hernández  
Gonçalo Inácio   
 

Youth

Castello Lukeba    
Morato 
Mattia Viti
Isaak Touré    
El Chadaille Bitshiabu       

@Vesper  if we were to get Gvardiol for a reasonable price, do you think a back 3 of Gvardiol, Fofana, Colwill is solid enough for future seasons?

[turgi 71]

Why do we stick with a back three?

[LAM09 7,091]

6 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

No he’s not a nobody perhaps but he’s hardly a elite level central defender. I mean he’s a reasonably solid squad player and even then, you can bet Pep won’t pick him regularly when he has all his CBs back fit and available, I mean hes no better than Ake and hes a pretty average CB.

Dortmund were eager to sell because he had 1 year left on his deal and he declined a new contract, plus anyone who’s watched Dortmund over the years know he hasn’t exactly been a revelation for them and they could afford to let him go. I mean I think him going to City was a surprise for many, he was available for transfer all summer and nobody went for him at that price barring City at the last minute due to Ake picking up an injury on top of the already injured Laporte not being closer to fitness.

But because he’s doing well for City (think he’s played 4 games, Seville, Dortmund, Wolves and United - ironically two teams have ended up sacking their managers for very subpar performances this season - particularly in attack) we should have “been all over him” as if he is any better than who we went after or who we signed. 

If people said last summer we should replace Rudiger or Christensen with Akanji, they would of laughed. We needed to target top level CBs to replace the 2 good players we lost. Not a rotational player/squad player in that position because Azpi and Chalobah can already do that roles. If he plays for City regularly for 2 or 3 years when everyone’s fit I will eat my words but I significantly doubt it.

Also without question Kimpbembe is a vastly superior player, absolutely, so makes sense why we were going after him. Even without considering the more obvious reason of his quality, he is a mobile, strong, left sided central defender who is comfortable in a back 3 or 4. Which would of been a pretty good buy to take Rudigers role as TT continued with a back 3.

There's a difference between going for top defenders & overpaying for ones that aren't. Our CB targets in the summer got progressively worse, starting with de Ligt & ultimately ending up with Fofana, so it almost makes a number of your points void, as we ended up with good players/downgrades in the end anyway. Comparing our situation to City's is totally irrelevant.

I couldn't hate anything more than comments seemingly presuming my thoughts were solely based on his short time at City. At £15m~ he would have been a great signing for a number of reasons, not at £40-50m, which is why I made the comment to begin with. It's called depth, as we'll be back to Azpi in a matter of weeks.

Also, I completely disagree with the last bit, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

Edited October 7, 2022 by LAM09

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

According to Bayern insider we fended off heavy interest from fc Bayern when securing the nkunku deal, prevailing vs an other European heavyweight for a change 

[Blues Forever 1,232]

11 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

According to Bayern insider we fended off heavy interest from fc Bayern when securing the nkunku deal, prevailing vs an other European heavyweight for a change 

Doesn't make any sense, Bayern still have Muller and Musiala.

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

1 hour ago, Blues Forever said:

Doesn't make any sense, Bayern still have Muller and Musiala.

Yeah right bc Bayern  never buy players they don’t need…

 

no srsly, the play 4231 or 4222 with false nine and/or second striker 

musiala Müller Start start as no. 10s in behind usually , ofc all front 4 or 5 interchange during the game

nkunku would compete vs Gnabry and mane mostly for the nominal 2 positions up front

 

 

 

 

 

[Blues Forever 1,232]

17 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

Yeah right bc Bayern  never buy players they don’t need…

 

no srsly, the play 4231 or 4222 with false nine and/or second striker 

musiala Müller Start start as no. 10s in behind usually , ofc all front 4 or 5 interchange during the game

nkunku would compete vs Gnabry and mane mostly for the nominal 2 positions up front

 

 

 

 

 

Bayern want to sign pure no.9 next summer. Nkunku as i said before would be a strange choice.

[MoroccanBlue 5,399]

5 hours ago, turgi said:

Why do we stick with a back three?

Midfield. 

In an ideal world, Kante and Jorginho are sold and upgraded next summer. Kovacic a rotation option. 

 

[YorkshireBlue 3,345]

Have we actually signed Nkunku or we just getting ahead of our selves here? 

[Vegetable 830]

7 hours ago, Blues Forever said:

Doesn't make any sense, Bayern still have Muller and Musiala.

Thinking where they got him from I wonder what's a point of having a "top notch academy" if we can't manage to properly develop and retain talented youth. It's not a first and not a last player who had to leave to explode his potential, otherwise he'd spent rest of his career on loans to 3rd Spanish division…

[Tomo 21,751]

28 minutes ago, Vegetable said:

It's not a first and not a last player who had to leave to explode his potential, otherwise he'd spent rest of his career on loans to 3rd Spanish division…

That notion is is abolsute myth. Players who play in the Spanish 3rd division and levels similar play in it because that's their ability level, nothing more nothing less.

Solanke and Brewster leaving us for "more chances" hasn't helped them get particularly far.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Tomo

[Reddish-Blue 2,676]

18 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

According to Bayern insider we fended off heavy interest from fc Bayern when securing the nkunku deal, prevailing vs an other European heavyweight for a change 

Don't forget that Bayern have always held a strong interest in a certain young German attacker playing for Chelsea at the moment...

It wouldn't surprise me at all if they begin to step up their interest in the coming seasons.  

[OhForAGreavsie 6,127]

On 07/10/2022 at 21:50, Vegetable said:

Thinking where they got him from I wonder what's a point of having a "top notch academy" if we can't manage to properly develop and retain talented youth. It's not a first and not a last player who had to leave to explode his potential, otherwise he'd spent rest of his career on loans to 3rd Spanish division…

That is not why Jamal left. Once he decided that his life would be in Germany, and that he would play internationally for Germany not for England, the move to Bayern was always on the cards.

I thought the myth of us denying opportunities to deserving young players had died. It just isn't true. Marc Guehi perhaps but he's the only candidate. All of the others fit into one of four categories: -

• Never good enough in the first place
• Near miss but ultimately still not good enough
• Was given a chance to impress over many games but the manager eventually decided they were not for him.
• Play right back, grew up with Reece James and are not idiots.

The only players showing signs of top-flight careers fall into the last two categories. 

Edited October 8, 2022 by OhForAGreavsie

[Reddish-Blue 2,676]

1 hour ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

That is not why Jamal left. Once he decided that his life would be in Germany, and that he would play internationally for Germany not for England, the move to Bayern was always on the cards.

I thought the myth of us denying opportunities to deserving young players had died. It just isn't true. Marc Guehi perhaps but he's the only candidate. All of the others fit into one of four categories: -

• Never good enough in the first place
• Near miss but ultimately still not good enough
• Was given a chance to impress over many games but the manager eventually decided they were not for him.
• Play right back, grew up with Reece James and are not idiots.

The only players showing signs of top-flight careers fall into the last two categories. 

Tomori should be added to your list.  He sort of fits the 3rd dot point but I feel there was enough raw potential there for us to keep him.  

If only the club had a crystal ball about the Christensen contract situation, we could have saved ourselves 30-40 million by keeping Tomori/Guehi at the club. 

[Vesper 31,110]

5 hours ago, Reddish-Blue said:

If only the club had a crystal ball about the Christensen contract situation, we could have saved ourselves 30-40 million by keeping Tomori/Guehi at the club. 

Marina had a blind spot for renewals. She assumed that she could strong-arm players like Cuntois, Rudiger, and AC. when the Sukhoi Su-34 rubber hit the runaway.

Just those 3 cockups have cost us around £175-200m or so at the end of the day, when Kepa's crazed world record for a keeper panic fee + salary for 7 years, plus £100m (or so) in lost transfer fees for AC/Rudi combined are figured in.