21. Ben Chilwell

[lucio 5,418]

16 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

Would love to know how you rate Alonso and Emerson.

Emerson is a pub player and alonso is useless apart from goalscoring 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

9 minutes ago, BluesMadLad said:

I think its just more to do with the fact his fifa stats ain't very impressive lmao 

Haha he needs big pace upgrade though 😄

[killer1257 3,282]

Well ironically, I think some people are acting as if he same age as Alonso and can't improve and have already written him off. He has loads of years left and loads of room to improve. I think season before last he was excellent actually and even for England his performances have been impressive. 

National team? Impressive against teams like Montenegro.

Problem is his price. He costs more than double the price we would have to pay for Reguilon and Chilwell would become the second most expensive Lb of all time and according to telegraph, there are very likely add ons and depending what kind of add ons, he becomes the most expensive Lb of all time. So very high expectations and can he deliver Robertson level stats? He has to get close to his stats some day, otherwise he is a flop. We paid 80 million or something for Kepa and that was a huge mistake. If Chilwell's price was 25 million just like Reguilon, nobody would moan here. Currently, he is even injured and he has been injured at least 2 months now. We get an out of form and out of shape Chilwell for 50 million pounds. His last season does clearly not justify that insane price. I have seen Lamptey completely destroy him. He looked clueless against Mahrez and we criticize Emerson and Alonso when they play bad against Mahrez. But we have to even criticize Chilwell more due to the fact that he is at least the second most expensive LB of all time

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[pmh1 23]

Oooo is this a “here we go” from Romano?!

 

 

[Steagles 70]

I do think the price is outrageous but while that may be, Chilwell has already established himself in the PL and has shown he can compete at a high level despite the pace and physicality of the league. With a stronger side around him I think his play will also be elevated. Reguilion and Tagliafico are insane question marks that may or may not translate to the PL at all and for the ~30m or so we would pay for either, that's a lot for me to want to risk. For me, the risk of the others even at 30m is harder to swallow than paying a premium for an Englishman already proven in the league to be a good talent when its imperative that we don't take any Ls on players not acclimatizing to the league. 

[Special Juan 27,506]

20 minutes ago, pmh1 said:

Oooo is this a “here we go” from Romano?!

 

 

I'm certain Chilwell and Havertz will be this week.

[DDA 9,701]

Why do people bang on about players not being able to improve from around the age of 24 upwards!

Absolute nonsense.

There are literally a thousand cases to prove otherwise. 

 

 

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, DDA said:

Why do people bang on about players not being able to improve from around the age of 24 upwards!

Absolute nonsense.

There are literally a thousand cases to prove otherwise. 

[Tomo 21,733]

1 hour ago, DDA said:

Why do people bang on about players not being able to improve from around the age of 24 upwards!

Absolute nonsense.

There are literally a thousand cases to prove otherwise. 

Depends on the aspects that people are citing potential improvement on.

With Chilwell I'll say there is scope for improvement as a lot of his issues seem to be in his head and tactical, with good and patient coaching that's fixable.

However I do chuckle when people use the age excuse when it comes to the subject of players having limited to no technical ability, if a player struggles to control a football at 18, he won't start doing so at any point.

[Alabama 1,992]

1 hour ago, DDA said:

Why do people bang on about players not being able to improve from around the age of 24 upwards!

Absolute nonsense.

There are literally a thousand cases to prove otherwise. 

 

 

Serge Gnabry the most recent case...

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, Alabama said:

Serge Gnabry the most recent case...

Poor Tony Pulis...

[Vesper 29,152]

34 minutes ago, Alabama said:

Serge Gnabry the most recent case...

Gnabry was only just turned 20 years old then, when the fool Pulis said that

and he already was turning into a beast 2 and half  years years ago (he had an explosive December onward Bundesliga in 2017/18, under Nagelsmann), when he was 22 (he was injured for months at the beginning of that season)

 

I challenge people to show me these 'thousands' (that is a number that has been claimed) of players who post 24yo, so 25 years of age and on, exploded out of nowhere

[Blue Armour 4,328]

19 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Gnabry was only just turned 20 years old then, when the fool Pulis said that

and he already was turning into a beast 2 and half  years years ago (he had an explosive December onward Bundesliga in 2017/18, under Nagelsmann), when he was 22 (he was injured for months at the beginning of that season)

 

I challenge people to show me these 'thousands' (that is a number that has been claimed) of players who post 24yo, so 25 years of age and on, exploded out of nowhere

Yeah,...'thousands' is no doubt an exaggeration.

There are a few good examples,...like our very own Didier Drogba, and to some extent, even Lampard, but I think these popular examples are clouding people's opinion.

[Jype 6,398]

34 minutes ago, Vesper said:

I challenge people to show me these 'thousands' (that is a number that has been claimed) of players who post 24yo, so 25 years of age and on, exploded out of nowhere

Was anyone claiming "explode out of nowhere" though? That term is reserved for the likes of Jamie Vardy (factory worker and non-league player at 25) but from what I understood they just meant that players still improve after age 24, which in almost every case is very much true and most players peak at 27-30. It's very rare for a player to peak before 24 and those usually involve bad injuries etc.

Or do you disagree? From our previous core players what level were the likes of Terry, Carvalho, Ivanovic, Lampard, Makelele, Matic, Kante, Drogba, Costa and countless others playing at 23-24 age? Did they or did they not improve massively after that age?

Chillwell at 23yo is a good PL level player. Whether he takes similar steps in his development and becomes a great player like the ones I mentioned is still very much out in the open but he's more or less the best we could realistically go after in this window so I'm more than willing to take that chance. Even at his current level he's an improvement over Alonso/Emerson. That alone is worth some of the investment (30M net after selling Emerson at 20M) and if he does develop further then great for him.

[Vesper 29,152]

11 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Yeah,...'thousands' is no doubt an exaggeration.

There are a few good examples,...like our very own Didier Drogba, and to some extent, even Lampard, but I think these popular examples are clouding people's opinion.

yes, the exceptions that prove the rule

speaking of Drogba, his backstory is crazy, it is one of those fairy-tales

Early life

Drogba was born in Abidjan, Ivory Coast, and at the age of five was sent to France by his parents to live with his uncle, Michel Goba, a professional footballer. However, Drogba soon became homesick and returned to Abidjan after three years.^[18] His mother nicknamed him "Tito", after president Josip Broz Tito of Yugoslavia, whom she admired greatly.^[19] He played football every day in a car park in the city but his return to the Ivory Coast was short lived. Both of his parents lost their jobs and he again returned to live with his uncle.^[18] In 1991, his parents also travelled to France; first to Vannes and then, in 1993, setting in Antony in the Paris suburbs, at which point the 15-year-old Drogba returned to live with them and his siblings.^[20] It was here that he began playing team football more frequently, joining a local youth side. Drogba then joined the semi-professional club Levallois, gaining a reputation as a prolific scorer in the youth team and impressing the coach with his professional attitude. His performances earned him a place in the senior squad but despite scoring in his debut, the 18-year-old Ivorian failed to make an impression on Jacques Loncar, the first team coach.^[21]

Club career

Le Mans

When Drogba finished school he moved to the city Le Mans to study accountancy at university and he had to change clubs, becoming an apprentice at Ligue 2 club Le Mans. However, his first two years there were marred by injuries and he was physically struggling to cope with the training and match schedule.^[18] Former Le Mans coach Marc Westerloppe later remarked that "it took Didier four years to be capable of training every day and playing every week". Furthermore, Drogba's complicated family life meant that he had never attended a football academy and only began daily football training as a fully grown adult.^[22]

By age 21, Drogba realised that he had to establish himself as a player soon or else he would have little chance of becoming a professional footballer.^[23] He made his first team debut for Le Mans soon thereafter and signed his first professional contract in 1999. The same year, he and his Malian wife Alla had their first child, Isaac. He grew into his new responsibilities, later stating: "Isaac's birth was a turning point in my life, it straightened me out".^[18] His first season, in which he scored seven goals in thirty games, boded well for the future, but during the following season he did not live up to expectations. Drogba lost his place to Daniel Cousin due to injury, then upon his return, he failed to score throughout the remainder of the season. However, he returned to form the following season, scoring five goals in 21 appearances.^[24]

Guingamp

Halfway through the 2001–02 season Ligue 1 club Guingamp consolidated months of interest with a transfer offer and Drogba left Le Mans for a fee of £80,000.^[18] The second half of the 2001–02 season saw Drogba make 11 appearances and score three goals for Guingamp. While his contributions helped the club avoid relegation, the coaching staff remained unconvinced of their new young striker.^[25] However, the next season he rewarded his coaches' patience, scoring 17 goals in 34 appearances and helping Guingamp finish seventh, a record league finish.^[18] He credited his teammates for his impressive season, highlighting the contributions of winger Florent Malouda, a long time friend of Drogba, as a key factor in his goalscoring prolificity that season.^[23] His strong goal scoring record attracted interest from larger clubs and at the end of the season, he moved to Ligue 1 side Olympique de Marseille for a fee of £3.3 million.^[22]

Marseille

After a switch of coaches, Drogba retained his position in the team, scoring 19 goals and winning the National Union of Professional Footballers (UNFP) Player of the Year award. He also scored five goals in that season's UEFA Champions League and six in the UEFA Cup. At the end of the season, he was bought by Chelsea as the club's then record signing for £24 million.^[23] His shirt from his only season at Marseille is also framed in the basilica of Marseille, Notre-Dame de la Garde, which he presented to the church before the 2004 UEFA Cup Final.^[26]

Chelsea.............

[Vesper 29,152]

10 minutes ago, Jype said:

Was anyone claiming "explode out of nowhere" though? That term is reserved for the likes of Jamie Vardy (factory worker and non-league player at 25) but from what I understood they just meant that players still improve after age 24, which in almost every case is very much true and most players peak at 27-30. It's very rare for a player to peak before 24 and those usually involve bad injuries etc.

Or do you disagree? From our previous core players what level were the likes of Terry, Carvalho, Ivanovic, Lampard, Makelele, Matic, Kante, Drogba, Costa and countless others playing at 23-24 age? Did they or did they not improve massively after that age?

Chillwell at 23yo is a good PL level player. Whether he takes similar steps in his development and becomes a great player like the ones I mentioned is still very much out in the open but he's more or less the best we could realistically go after in this window so I'm more than willing to take that chance. Even at his current level he's an improvement over Alonso/Emerson. That alone is worth some of the investment (30M net after selling Emerson at 20M) and if he does develop further then great for him.

of course players usually improve after 24 (the majority I would say, although if they are destined to be shit they probably will not, and you also have those frustrating ones like Michael Owen who peak so young and then it is a long slide down, often due to injuries, etc)

what I am saying is that a player has turned 25yo and still has not shown much, the odds are pretty high they never will

[Stats 7,060]

3 hours ago, killer1257 said:

National team? Impressive against teams like Montenegro.

Problem is his price. He costs more than double the price we would have to pay for Reguilon and Chilwell would become the second most expensive Lb of all time and according to telegraph, there are very likely add ons and depending what kind of add ons, he becomes the most expensive Lb of all time. So very high expectations and can he deliver Robertson level stats? He has to get close to his stats some day, otherwise he is a flop. We paid 80 million or something for Kepa and that was a huge mistake. If Chilwell's price was 25 million just like Reguilon, nobody would moan here. Currently, he is even injured and he has been injured at least 2 months now. We get an out of form and out of shape Chilwell for 50 million pounds. His last season does clearly not justify that insane price. I have seen Lamptey completely destroy him. He looked clueless against Mahrez and we criticize Emerson and Alonso when they play bad against Mahrez. But we have to even criticize Chilwell more due to the fact that he is at least the second most expensive LB of all time

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He got MOTM away to Croatia also right? Croatia are arguably better than England. Ok, you saw Lamptey destroy him. I saw Chilwell put in MOTM performance against us at the Bridge when they beat us 1-0. Don't get me wrong, I have been really impressed by Reguilon and I would take him here. However Chilwell seems to be Lamps first choice and I think people need to get behind him and also support the player. The lack of support it is was is surprsing me. Chilwell has shown flaws but he also has shown qualites in the PL too. Price, we getting him for around £50m which is a lot lower than Leciester initially wanted. It is a good deal.

Matter of fact is all English players are overpriced. Norwich got relegated and already put a £50m price tag on Ben Godfrey. We have seen too many occasions before where the board gets a player who is not necessarily the manager's first choice and it has backfired. IIRC Conte wanted Lukaku but the board wanted Morata. I think a lot of fans were happy with that but facts is if Conte got his wish and got his man, it would have worked better but we got a striker who it just went really wrong. So I am happy that Lamps is now being given the full backing and I am sure he has weighed up why he wants him and also believes he can improve him as a player. When Lamps supported the permanent signing of Kovacic, again a lot of people did not agree, but most of them if not all of them now have changed their mind. Lamps improved Kovacic. Let's give Chilwell time to actually play under Lampard before writing him off. 

Also I never agree with paying that much money for a keeper, however getting Chilwell for this price in the English market is no way near in comparison to the Kepa deal.

[Vesper 29,152]

11 minutes ago, Stats said:

He got MOTM away to Croatia also right? Croatia are arguably better than England. Ok, you saw Lamptey destroy him. I saw Chilwell put in MOTM performance against us at the Bridge when they beat us 1-0. Don't get me wrong, I have been really impressed by Reguilon and I would take him here. However Chilwell seems to be Lamps first choice and I think people need to get behind him and also support the player. The lack of support it is was is surprsing me. Chilwell has shown flaws but he also has shown qualites in the PL too. Price, we getting him for around £50m which is a lot lower than Leciester initially wanted. It is a good deal.

Matter of fact is all English players are overpriced. Norwich got relegated and already put a £50m price tag on Ben Godfrey. We have seen too many occasions before where the board gets a player who is not necessarily the manager's first choice and it has backfired. IIRC Conte wanted Lukaku but the board wanted Morata. I think a lot of fans were happy with that but facts is if Conte got his wish and got his man, it would have worked better but we got a striker who it just went really wrong. So I am happy that Lamps is now being given the full backing and I am sure he has weighed up why he wants him and also believes he can improve him as a player. When Lamps supported the permanent signing of Kovacic, again a lot of people did not agree, but most of them if not all of them now have changed their mind. Lamps improved Kovacic. Let's give Chilwell time to actually play under Lampard before writing him off. 

Also I never agree with paying that much money for a keeper, however getting Chilwell for this price in the English market is no way near in comparison to the Kepa deal.

fair points and if it is £50m, that is only a £10m or so overpay, and not a £40m one

I would drop £35-40m on Reguilon if that meant no buyback, for instance, especially if Chilwell did not exist

once Theo is removed from the table, they are the two best remaining options (due to Alaba¨s age and salary demands)

there simply has to be some reason (and I do not often use this angle) that NO big team has purchased Telles in the past, not even now (although he does soon turn 28). some reason I cannot easily put my finger on (probably his poor defence, would be my beats guess, but even there, he is hardly pure shite)

I would think PSG eventually buys Telles, the weak Ligue 1 is fine for him, and he can be a massive weapon for them for the next 4 years or so