Mikel John Obi

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Er not at all... Why should a defender score? Stop twisting my words...

Where did I say you said that? I was making a comparison between Mikel not playing key passes and Cole not scoring, the common aspect of the two phrases being "it's not their job".

Mikel is supposed to: A) Provide defensive cover provide an outlet for defenders

Agree, but what does that have to do with his lack of key passes that we were discussing?

So yes, as a COUNTER attacking team, he should be doing more with the ball, so should Ramires. Instead our attacking players fall deeper and deeper to get the ball meaning less space/time on the ball and everything gets broken down. That's my point, be interested to see how wrong I am

Again that is besides our discussion. I really don't want to get into why at least one of the forwards should drop deep to get the ball right now.

You complained about Mikel not playing enough key passes. My reply was that a) it is not his job and b ) the passes Mikel plays are just important as key passes because without them we would not have possession for the front four to play key passes.

Just to illustrate on whose job it is to play key passes, Oriol who is supposedly better than Mikel and more 'creative' has an average of 0.2 key passes per game. So he only plays one "decent" pass every 5 matches?! http://www.whoscored.com/Players/90780/Show/Oriol-Romeu

[Muzchap 8,966]

Where did I say you said that? I was making a comparison between Mikel not playing key passes and Cole not scoring, the common aspect of the two phrases being "it's not their job".

Agree, but what does that have to do with his lack of key passes that we were discussing?

Again that is besides our discussion. I really don't want to get into why at least one of the forwards should drop deep to get the ball right now.

You complained about Mikel not playing enough key passes. My reply was that a) it is not his job and b ) the passes Mikel plays are just important as key passes because without them we would not have possession for the front four to play key passes.

Just to illustrate on whose job it is to play key passes, Oriol who is supposedly better than Mikel and more 'creative' has an average of 0.2 key passes per game. So he only plays one "decent" pass every 5 matches?! http://www.whoscored.com/Players/90780/Show/Oriol-Romeu

The smiley face fucked up my A and B points and as on iPad couldn't be arsed to fix...

Mikel is an 'outlet' he should be playing through to the top 4 players...

Romeu has had zero game time in comparison, so unfair to use that stat.

IF an attacking player has to drop deep, that REDUCES our attacking threat... ?

I can't be arsed to repeat everything I said, but I'm positive a World Class DM would make us a better team...

[The only place to be 11,313]

Could we put the spotlight on how Hazard asks the ball here ? He's jogging sidesteps waiting for the ball onto his feet.

We should make a DVD out of it and show it in football schools around the world.

I can kinda forgive the loose pass, although not really.

The standing still afterwards (which I'm pretty sure I've mentioned to you before and you've brought up Hazard asking for it then too) is unforgivable.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

The smiley face fucked up my A and B points and as on iPad couldn't be arsed to fix... Mikel is an 'outlet' he should be playing through to the top 4 players...

I thought by outlet you meant a player they can always pass to and trust to keep possession under pressure which btw Mikel is the best in the league, along with Toure, at.

Mikel should pass to the top for but with out risking loosing possession. A pass is played by two player: the passer needs to spot the pass and the receiver needs to create the space for the pass. When the front four are between 7-8 players Mikel can't find them without a huge chance of wasting possession so he gives the ball back.

Romeu has had zero game time in comparison, so unfair to use that stat.

Fine scrap that. Tiote who is apparently "BOSS" and the popular choice for replacement of Mikel and has 0.3 key passes per game in the PL.

IF an attacking player has to drop deep, that REDUCES our attacking threat... ?

Not necessarily. If he attracts a defender or two with him he can create space for others. And even if it does reduce our attacking threat, by keeping possession it reduces the opponents' attacking threat much more.

[Muzchap 8,966]

I thought by outlet you meant a player they can always pass to and trust to keep possession under pressure which btw Mikel is the best in the league, along with Toure, at.

Mikel should pass to the top for but with out risking loosing possession. A pass is played by two player: the passer needs to spot the pass and the receiver needs to create the space for the pass. When the front four are between 7-8 players Mikel can't find them without a huge chance of wasting possession so he gives the ball back.

Fine scrap that. Tiote who is apparently "BOSS" and the popular choice for replacement of Mikel and has 0.3 key passes per game in the PL.

Not necessarily. If he attracts a defender or two with him he can create space for others. And even if it does reduce our attacking threat, by keeping possession it reduces the opponents' attacking threat much more.

Cool

I'm not a Tiote fan btw...

I'm more Busquets...

I think Mikel + attacking quarter + Ramires need to work harder in training to create space, if he then plays them in, I will be happy.

If he doesn't #angry

He has improved massively over last season, but still think we need a 'vision' passer to play alongside him... Or replace him, depending on above

[The only place to be 11,313]

I already explained how it wasn't at all a mistake from him in the recent pages. No need to recall common sense again and again.

Weird that he felt compelled to apologise for it - you should've told him it was a mistake at all. Clearly you knew more about it than he did (that isn't sarcasm either - I genuinely think that most posters on this forum have better tactical sense than Mikel).

The funny thing is that I think you and I agree on what Mikel should do in the team - we just differ on his effectiveness at it and I have strong reservations about his character to play in such a demanding role on the pitch.

[The only place to be 11,313]

You raised some fair points, I expect more from Mikel in that current role and I genuinly think it's a matter of confidence rather than ability to play that odd pass.

I just can't stand "he's shit" "he's unable to do so" "he's useless"

Basically he lost the ball, in the storm he felt the need to apologize. I don't think that was a good reaction, nor Robbie's press conf "we know he made a mistake, let's move on" considering that wasn't a genuine mistake, and even less only Mikel's mistake

I don't think he's shit or useless. I think he's actually done well considering it's not a position he came to until his 20s, but it's one of the toughest positions on a pitch to master and players will often revert to what is natural and not what they've learnt, especially in pressure situations. He may become better over time, but we are talking about a player with well over 200 first-team appearances now.

Say we had a Busquets who could play in a DM role similar to the one he plays at Barca. I think Mikel would be a decent player alongside him but with less of the defensive responsibilities, kinda like the role Ramires plays. In fact I think he could be something special there as he could indulge his natural attacking instincts a bit more. But I simply think that the more defensive role we ask him to play is too much for him. He certainly has his good moments but that position is all about consistency, reliability and alertness and they are not the words I think of when I think of Mikel.

[Blue Armour 4,436]

You haven't even spotted the sarcasm... You must be so nervous

Nonsense for nonsense. You mean Mikel passes backwards most of the time, figures shows it's false. So I decide to do like you, deny facts and figures with my own opinion

I just have one question Seb..You say that the forward players are sometimes not in good positions to receive the ball so Mikel can't make the pass...

I agree with that, but why does he have to remain static? If he actually moved with the ball to draw some of the opposition away from their marked targets, his targets could become free for the pass...

[Kojo 4,676]

You haven't even spotted the sarcasm... You must be so nervous

Nonsense for nonsense. You mean Mikel passes backwards most of the time, figures shows it's false. So I decide to do like you, deny facts and figures with my own opinion

How about this, your big posts aren't 98 percent bull shite, and you don't have people thinking your some big scout, when you're not some fool who has been proved wrong dozens of times and posted nonsense analysts.

Oh shit sarcasm, oh and watch out if you didn't get it at first, of course you're just nervous aren't you, because i forgot you must be nervous when you don't notice dodgy french sarcasm.

[zolayes 14,489]

How about this, your big posts aren't 98 percent bull shite, and you don't have people thinking your some big scout, when you're not some fool who has been proved wrong dozens of times and posted nonsense analysts.

Oh shit sarcasm, oh and watch out if you didn't get it at first, of course you're just nervous aren't you, because i forgot you must be nervous when you don't notice dodgy french sarcasm.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Well yeah, stats are obviously helpful in some criterias i suppose that's obvious.

But i think additional information and your own conclusion should come with your point rather than just throwing a stupid stat in there. Because that's just stupid, you can't just use a stat to back up your point, not in that way anyhow.

Sadly some people don't actually watch the match and go and pick 90% pass completed stats and comment mikel is good. Forgetting that 89% where to ashley cole or ivanovic.

That's why most websites get the post match player ratings wrong, bcos they just collect stats and don't watch the match.

[robsblubot 3,595]

I happen to think that, right now, DM is a position Chelsea could improve on.

Now, this improvement may come from Mikel and Romeo, or perhaps different players.

Without having the fitness levels data, that Chelsea coaches certainly do have access to, it's difficult to know how they are progressing physically and tactically. The fact they've let Essien go and bet on Mikel speaks volumes.

I think Mikel has gained some pace lately, but sometimes he seems a bit off as of lacking dynamism. His work rate could be improved on.

You could make a case for most of Chelsea squad that they'd be top 10 in the world in their respective positions (personal preferences aside), but Mikel would be a difficult sell for a top 10 spot. Essien at his best was easily top 10. Ironically we've won the CL without him... It's always the team.

It's all relative to the team and the system; the manager would be very welcome to find a system in which Mikel excels.

[Blue Armour 4,436]

I happen to think that, right now, DM is a position Chelsea could improve on.

Now, this improvement may come from Mikel and Romeo, or perhaps different players.

Without having the fitness levels data, that Chelsea coaches certainly do have access to, it's difficult to know how they are progressing physically and tactically. The fact they've let Essien go and bet on Mikel speaks volumes.

I think Mikel has gained some pace lately, but sometimes he seems a bit off as of lacking dynamism. His work rate could be improved on.

You could make a case for most of Chelsea squad that they'd be top 10 in the world in their respective positions (personal preferences aside), but Mikel would be a difficult sell for a top 10 spot. Essien at his best was easily top 10. Ironically we've won the CL without him... It's always the team.

It's all relative to the team and the system; the manager would be very welcome to find a system in which Mikel excels.

Very good post, and sums up my stance regarding Mikel.

Mikel has a lot of attributes that should be appreciated, but he has had his shortcomings and as he features more often in the starting eleven its becoming more apparent.

The fact remains that from the squad he is the best option for the role he plays, but that role is crucial and the team does suffer from it in certain situations.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

You could make a case for most of Chelsea squad that they'd be top 10 in the world in their respective positions (personal preferences aside), but Mikel would be a difficult sell for a top 10 spot. Essien at his best was easily top 10. Ironically we've won the CL without him... It's always the team.

Maybe you could make a case for Cole and Cech as top-10 at their positions, but that's about it. Mikel is not the best defensive midfielder in the world, but he's actually closer to elite than what we have at a lot of positions. We could improve at DM just like we could improve virtually everywhere, but people are generally too hard on Mikel. Some of the criticisms are legitimate (for example, I think he can speed up his decision making sometimes), but some of them are a lack of understanding of what a defensive midfielder is supposed to do. His job is one of the least sexy jobs on the pitch. It's about positioning, safety, cover, and so on. Wanting a dynamic player to come in and play the position won't work. You need am unexciting, smart player there. The bottom line for me is that we can be elite with Mikel as our defensive midfielder (we were) but we have a number of positions where I don't think we can win if we don't improve (Ramires as deep-lying midfielder, Luiz/Cahill at CB, need long-term striker, etc...).

[robsblubot 3,595]

Maybe you could make a case for Cole and Cech as top-10 at their positions, but that's about it. Mikel is not the best defensive midfielder in the world, but he's actually closer to elite than what we have at a lot of positions. We could improve at DM just like we could improve virtually everywhere, but people are generally too hard on Mikel. Some of the criticisms are legitimate (for example, I think he can speed up his decision making sometimes), but some of them are a lack of understanding of what a defensive midfielder is supposed to do. His job is one of the least sexy jobs on the pitch. It's about positioning, safety, cover, and so on. Wanting a dynamic player to come in and play the position won't work. You need am unexciting, smart player there. The bottom line for me is that we can be elite with Mikel as our defensive midfielder (we were) but we have a number of positions where I don't think we can win if we don't improve (Ramires as deep-lying midfielder, Luiz/Cahill at CB, need long-term striker, etc...).

I think people here don't give enough international credit... do you know how difficult it is to start for Brazil? Certainly more difficult than to pick an England spot. I'm not dissing England, but it's just the sheer number of players that Brazil have at their disposal. Many of which play at top sides, like Chelsea. It's actually quite sad because it's a continental country with a single sport: football.

Granted, we have many young players now; even Luiz and Ramires are a bit green, esp concerning top level football. But that's how you improve your squad without breaking the bank. You cannot buy the final product every time; it's just too expensive even for Roman, not to mention the other guys may not want to sell their best players. BTW, moments of brilliance like the one Ramires had against Barca is what makes a player special in my book. Ramires was also MOTM for Brazil in the last world cup and was Suspended for the Holland game.

Chelsea are short in the middle, no argument there. They need cover too.