Super Frank Thread

[Jase 43,479]

6 minutes ago, Blues11 said:

Does Frank ever make halftime adjustments? We never switch formation or throw different looks at opposing teams during the break. All I ever see him do is call for the two Wingers to swap sides on occasion, like that's really going to throw them off... 

Tactically he just keeps on coming up short and the players are playing with no confidence. I want to see him do well being a legend of the club, but it doesn't look very promising.

No, he doesn't. He just stands on the touchline, hands crossed and looks passive and quiet. And god knows what even Jody Morris is doing as well. 

[Special Juan 27,419]

Has Morris ever left the dug out apart from going home.

[Strike 7,212]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

The season still being alive doesn't mean things are going well under Lampard. It's not as if the recent concerns came about because of the bad run. They are the wider concerns and have been there since Lampard took over and the bad run just reinforced them. We can't be 18 months into Lampard's tenure and after spending more than 200 million+ last summer, be worse than last season with no improvement, no identity, no style of play etc. 

The season could be dead if things don't change ASAP and while it's great to qualify for the Champions League knockout stage, I don't get this idea of parading it like it's something to celebrate when it's only the Round of 16 (we're not Arsenal FFS!) and not even quarter finals, semi finals or final. We used to consistently reach the knockout stage 10-15 years ago but we now have someone like Matt Law parading a Round of 16 qualification like it's some sort of success? The standards have really fallen! Based on current form, we'll lose to Atletico and get KOed from the Round of 16 again (so much for my optimism when the draw was made, HA!).

I don't know if Matt Law watches all of our games (he's a Villa fan after all) but fans who watch the team week in week out have a better sense of what's going on. It's like when pundits and journalists thought Willian was great here but he wasn't and it took them until he went to Arsenal to realize it.

I think its more to do with the admission that the club will give Lampard more time to turn this and sack him only when things are completely out of hand

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

I think its more to do with the admission that the club will give Lampard more time to turn this and sack him only when things are completely out of hand

Admission from who? 

Right now, is there any actual evidence or sign to suggest that Lampard will turn things around? Because I think we're at the point where we're just hoping he will turn things around, should he remain, rather than have any actual confidence in him doing so. Either we look to make the change or risk the season going bust by the end of January if we get a few more bad results. 

[Strike 7,212]

15 minutes ago, Jason said:

Admission from who? 

Right now, is there any actual evidence or sign to suggest that Lampard will turn things around? Because I think we're at the point where we're just hoping he will turn things around, should he remain, rather than have any actual confidence in him doing so. Either we look to make the change or risk the season going bust by the end of January if we get a few more bad results. 

Lot of journos saying that as much as people are writing off Lampard, the board will wait before a potential sack. It was only after the city result that the first few pieces about Lampard's job being under threat were out.  Its plausible that they give him till Leicester and then take the call when they have had time to figure out their main managerial target.

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, Strike said:

Lot of journos saying that as much as people are writing off Lampard, the board will wait before a potential sack. It was only after the city result that the first few pieces about Lampard's job being under threat were out.  Its plausible that they give him till Leicester and then take the call when they have had time to figure out their main managerial target.

But the City result also revealed that they have been thinking of the change for some time now. It hasn't just happened because of that result. The board also seem to share the same concerns that most fans have about Lampard. 

We obviously need wins ASAP but at the same time, we also need to see progression beyond than just results. Let's say if we beat Fulham and Leicester but the performances were unconvincing like in the recent West Ham game, then what? 

[Tomo 21,733]

One thing that shouldn't get lost in all of this is appointing Frank when we did was the correct decision, with the unique circumstances we faced of losing our game changer with no chance of replacement meant we needed a man who would look at the bigger picture and wouldn't just try and shithouse a top four spot, and as it turned out Lampard achieved that while setting us up long term. Unfortunately it doesn't look like he's going to be the one to take us back to the top himself but make no mistake if/when we get there he'd have played his part.

Last season was a fantastic achievement no matter what way it's spun, people can spill this guff of "we're Chelsea we shouldn't be happy with just top four" and this season I'd agree, but last season that was the ceiling of what our squad was capable of and expecting a squad not capable of doing any better to do better because "we're Chelsea" is the exact same type of delusions of grandeur we use to scold Liverpool fans for having. If our squad do the best that they are capable of then they (and the manager) should be praised for that.

This season however the job looks too big for him, he's almost looking like one of those managers who overachieve when the pressure isn't too high but then cranks when the pressure is raised (the expectations of last season compared to this is a rough equivalent of moving to a medium sized club to huge club). At the start I wasn't convinced by the performance but gave the benefit of the doubt it was the Covid situation causing the strange performances (even Bayern were looking erratic at that point) and the run we went on of wins and clean sheets looked like he finally may have cracked it but let's not get things twisted, since the Krasnador game at home things have been awful. Yes it's easy to say it's only a month but there was worrying signs before then but difference then there was also good signs that gave us hope he'd straighten out and the greenness will disappear and the promising aspects of his management would become more dominant, however unfortunately the total opposite has happened.

It's not the fact we ain't getting results at the minute (results wise we had a bad start last season but I was delighted with the performances and knew the results were going to come) it's the fact there's nothing there in performances. We have talent all over the pitch and we're resorting to throwing in crosses in the box, when was the last time we played genuine combinations through the middle creating serious chances? And without change it will get worse as more and more managers realize that's our only source of scoring and create tactical counters to cut it off. If we had a shit squad I'd potentially be inclined to wait and see if Lampard could improve with better players (ala OGS after he signed Bruno Fernandes) but the reality is, we have a first Xl that should at the absolute minimum be comfortably top four. Can any one say hand on heart they're confident we will win at Fulham? Or any league fixture on the horizon? When that happens with the talent we have then there's only one place to look and that's the coaching team.

We still have a chance of top four, heck given how crazy this season is I wouldn't even bet against us creeping into the title race if we picked up some momentum but I just can't see how it will happen under Frank, structurally we look absolutely desolate in ways I've only seen worse under the Mou meltdown and Scolari and that's just not acceptable with the quality we have. I hope this ages terribly and Frank turns this round and gives us a long term run as manager (nothing will make me happier) and as I've said he's more than played his part in what will hopefully be a journey back to the top, but my priority is always what's best for the club and as much as it hurts to say, I don't think that's Frank in charge.

[Superblue 6,370]

42 minutes ago, Tomo said:

One thing that shouldn't get lost in all of this is appointing Frank when we did was the correct decision, with the unique circumstances we faced of losing our game changer with no chance of replacement meant we needed a man who would look at the bigger picture and wouldn't just try and shithouse a top four spot, and as it turned out Lampard achieved that while setting us up long term. Unfortunately it doesn't look like he's going to be the one to take us back to the top himself but make no mistake if/when we get there he'd have played his part.

Last season was a fantastic achievement no matter what way it's spun, people can spill this guff of "we're Chelsea we shouldn't be happy with just top four" and this season I'd agree, but last season that was the ceiling of what our squad was capable of and expecting a squad not capable of doing any better to do better because "we're Chelsea" is the exact same type of delusions of grandeur we use to scold Liverpool fans for having. If our squad do the best that they are capable of then they (and the manager) should be praised for that.

This season however the job looks too big for him, he's almost looking like one of those managers who overachieve when the pressure isn't too high but then cranks when the pressure is raised (the expectations of last season compared to this is a rough equivalent of moving to a medium sized club to huge club). At the start I wasn't convinced by the performance but gave the benefit of the doubt it was the Covid situation causing the strange performances (even Bayern were looking erratic at that point) and the run we went on of wins and clean sheets looked like he finally may have cracked it but let's not get things twisted, since the Krasnador game at home things have been awful. Yes it's easy to say it's only a month but there was worrying signs before then but difference then there was also good signs that gave us hope he'd straighten out and the greenness will disappear and the promising aspects of his management would become more dominant, however unfortunately the total opposite has happened.

It's not the fact we ain't getting results at the minute (results wise we had a bad start last season but I was delighted with the performances and knew the results were going to come) it's the fact there's nothing there in performances. We have talent all over the pitch and we're resorting to throwing in crosses in the box, when was the last time we played genuine combinations through the middle creating serious chances? And without change it will get worse as more and more managers realize that's our only source of scoring and create tactical counters to cut it off. If we had a shit squad I'd potentially be inclined to wait and see if Lampard could improve with better players (ala OGS after he signed Bruno Fernandes) but the reality is, we have a first Xl that should at the absolute minimum be comfortably top four. Can any one say hand on heart they're confident we will win at Fulham? Or any league fixture on the horizon? When that happens with the talent we have then there's only one place to look and that's the coaching team.

We still have a chance of top four, heck given how crazy this season is I wouldn't even bet against us creeping into the title race if we picked up some momentum but I just can't see how it will happen under Frank, structurally we look absolutely desolate in ways I've only seen worse under the Mou meltdown and Scolari and that's just not acceptable with the quality we have. I hope this ages terribly and Frank turns this round and gives us a long term run as manager (nothing will make me happier) and as I've said he's more than played his part in what will hopefully be a journey back to the top, but my priority is always what's best for the club and as much as it hurts to say, I don't think that's Frank in charge.

Completely agree with everything you've said.

It's very raw at the moment and I think given time people will look back at Lampard's time here in a more positive way with regards to last seasons achievement of getting top 4 and the longer term rebuilding job he's done of the squad through the academy and transfer market.

I'd love nothing more to see my club be successful under one of its biggest legends and personally one of my all time favourites. But realistically the head has to overule the heart and this season so far has been unacceptable.

I felt there was some progress earlier in the season with regards to significant improvements to our set pieces at both ends of the pitch and our defensive shape that would help set us up for a successful season. But our attacking play has got progressively worse which has really come to a head since the Leeds game. At the time when we went behind early against Leeds I had nothing but confidence we'd still win the game but just a month later I wonder where the goals will come from and like you said, I'm not very confident about the Fulham game. Unfortunately as our attacking play has spluttered along, old problems have arisen at the back too such as defensive mistakes and being caught naively on counter attacks.

As a couple of people have mentioned, there have been a couple of times in recent weeks where we've had free weeks finally in between games but if anything we've been worse after which would suggest problems in the coaching department.

I think ultimately the club trying to ride through this now becomes nothing more than a stay of execution and a change in the manager and coaching setup is needed for the long term outlook of the club. 

Whilst most have been completely reasonable with criticism levelled at Lampard's management and separated that from his legendary status as a player, a couple of people on this forum are nothing short of a disgrace with some of the rubbish they spew which is usually reserved by plastic fans on twitter. If the inevitable happens, hopefully it can be done in the most respectful of ways. The club will get a media shitstorm for it, but we've rode out far worse in the past.

[Jype 6,398]

2 hours ago, Tomo said:

One thing that shouldn't get lost in all of this is appointing Frank when we did was the correct decision, with the unique circumstances we faced of losing our game changer with no chance of replacement meant we needed a man who would look at the bigger picture and wouldn't just try and shithouse a top four spot, and as it turned out Lampard achieved that while setting us up long term. Unfortunately it doesn't look like he's going to be the one to take us back to the top himself but make no mistake if/when we get there he'd have played his part.

Last season was a fantastic achievement no matter what way it's spun, people can spill this guff of "we're Chelsea we shouldn't be happy with just top four" and this season I'd agree, but last season that was the ceiling of what our squad was capable of and expecting a squad not capable of doing any better to do better because "we're Chelsea" is the exact same type of delusions of grandeur we use to scold Liverpool fans for having. If our squad do the best that they are capable of then they (and the manager) should be praised for that.

This season however the job looks too big for him, he's almost looking like one of those managers who overachieve when the pressure isn't too high but then cranks when the pressure is raised (the expectations of last season compared to this is a rough equivalent of moving to a medium sized club to huge club). At the start I wasn't convinced by the performance but gave the benefit of the doubt it was the Covid situation causing the strange performances (even Bayern were looking erratic at that point) and the run we went on of wins and clean sheets looked like he finally may have cracked it but let's not get things twisted, since the Krasnador game at home things have been awful. Yes it's easy to say it's only a month but there was worrying signs before then but difference then there was also good signs that gave us hope he'd straighten out and the greenness will disappear and the promising aspects of his management would become more dominant, however unfortunately the total opposite has happened.

This 1000%.

Last season Lampard did a good job under difficult circumstances and has done a lot of ground work in making the squad better in the post-Hazard era. I will always give Lampard a lot of credit for that and still maintain the opinion that he was the right hire at the time but all along I've had my doubts over his long-term future. He was primarily brought in to steady the ship, implement some of the academy youngsters and start the rebuild of a slowly ageing squad filled with players brought by many different managers and different play styles.

No top class manager would have accepted the job in time of a transfer ban with a declining squad and Sarri sure as hell wouldn't have integrated the academy boys into the squad. Sarri also would probably not have gone for the likes of Havertz, Chilwell etc. this summer and instead gotten players who fit his system better, but in case of things still going tits up under Sarri the squad would most likely have been much worse off than it is now under Lampard's rebuild.

If Frank is sacked soon and someone else comes in to save the season, I will always remember fondly the important work Frank did in setting up the team for future success but if he stays long enough for top4 spots to go out of reach and gets knocked out in the CL, his managerial legacy at the club will turn sour really quickly and missing out on the CL spots for next season will again set the team back significantly because the squad can't be strengthened due to the financial losses and some players may even have to be sold to balance the books.

I say get it over with ASAP and let the next manager prepare a couple weeks before the next tough league game (Leicester on January 19th). FA Cup and Fulham should be winnable under pretty much anyone as interim coach.

[milka 3,344]

 

Brendan Rodgers – 3/1

Thomas Tuchel – 5/1

Julian Nagelsmann – 6/1

Massimiliano Allegri – 7/1

Rafa Benítez – 10/1

John Terry – 12/1

Nuno Espirito Santo – 14/1

Gareth Southgate – 20/1

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Looking at the tactical performance of Chelsea just annoys me. See how we were destroyed in the middle with city players occupying spaces between the lines. Just pure tactical schooling 

 

[DDA 9,689]

Brendon Rogers would be a fantastic shout in my opinion. He is a very good manager. I wanted him instead of Frank in the first place. 

[lucio 5,418]

Whilst I like Rodgers set up, I’m worried how his Liverpool and Leicester both bottled their positions spectacularly 

[killer1257 3,282]

Brendon Rogers would be a fantastic shout in my opinion. He is a very good manager. I wanted him instead of Frank in the first place. 

I think he does not like Chelsea anymore. I think he said that Chelsea is a big club and sacks managers frequently, so the next manager comes in and has a squad with the same problems before and those managers don't have much time to fix it. I think he also said that he will not come to Chelsea because it would destroy his career lol. True.

 

Brendan needs time and trust. Chelsea fans and the board don't give you that

 

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[ChelseaFanUK 1,014]

None of us 'want' Frank to be sacked, we just understand that from a perspective of looking at Lampard the manager in black and white... he is too inexperienced for the job and its beyond him, IMO.   We all want him to succeed, because he is Frank Lampard, the club legend

But you have to forget about that when judging him and deciding if he should stay on.  Is Frank Lampard a potential premier league winning manager? Not for me.   Does his squad, ideally, need a more seasoned and experienced manager? Id say yes.  I'd also say Jody Morris does fuck all and should be replaced, too - even if Frank stays

 

IF Frank goes and i still hope he doesnt, i have to be honest...... it'll be Tuchel IMO

[kellzfresh 7,229]

This debate is an interesting perspective of what happened in the match.

Do the experienced players take charge and decide that things are not working and call teamates to come back and sit deep. Or is it the managers fault for not saying anything or making any tactical changes when his team is being battered for 20 mins straight?

 

[Jase 43,479]

9 minutes ago, kellzfresh said:

This debate is an interesting perspective of what happened in the match.

Do the experienced players take charge and decide that things are not working and call teamates to come back and sit deep. Or is it the managers fault for not saying anything or making any tactical changes when his team is being battered for 20 mins straight?

 

Both but I would place greater emphasis on the manager to lead the way. I don't think you will see managers like Klopp, Guardiola, Mourinho etc just stand on the touchline with the arms crossed and look passive and quiet when things are going horribly wrong on the pitch. Said it before that I don't think Lampard will be a manager who screams and shouts on the touchline BUT since he's always saying that this team is young, inexperienced etc, he needs to come out of his shell a bit more and help provide leadership and guidance. I don't know if he's expecting the players to solve problems on the field like he, Terry, Drogba etc used to do but it's clear that the current players are not capable of that (yet maybe). He - and even his coaching staff like Morris - needs to do more from the touchline to help the team. He can't keep on doing nothing and then turn around and blame them after a bad result. 

[Blues Forever 1,232]