Jorginho

[BlueLyon 9,359]

9 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Did you watch him at Napoli? He hit long passes a lot but he had movement in fdrnt of him. Also Luiz hits a lot of the passes you would see Jorginho do at times too because he has that ability where as at Napoli, Albiol and Koulibaly played a lot less penetrating vertical passes.

Its the same way Cesc looked ineffective in a deeper role here under Sarri because everyone stands still and wants the ball to feet so they can take a million touches... likes of  Barkley, Ruben, Eden, Willian and Morata still all guilty of this in the final third far too often, not quick enough with our combination play, not enough third man runs. Also regarding movement off the ball, Pedro and Kante (huge improvement this season in this regard) are really the only guys who make constant off the ball movements. Where as at Napoli, the likes of Mertens, Callejon, Hamsik and even Allan would make runs off the ball, even if they didnt get it straight away it would to free up spaces and opportunities to play quick combinations with third man runners.

For all the doubters of Jorginho, if he played for City you would all be creaming your pants because they have good rotations and good movement off the ball in the final third. Plus their system would mask any defects he has, although defensively he has really come on a lot since his first game for us.

Sorry but he never hit many long passes, even in napoli, at least when I saw him play. I didnt watch many games though, so I decided to check his stats at he had around 2,5 last season too. 

Also, if you compare Cesc and Jorginho in europa league where we faced poor opposition and therefore neither has excuse to deliver; Cesc averaged 8 long passes compared to Jorginhos 2.

Jorginho can hit them long balls but he is doing it very rarely.

[El P. 1,354]

I would really like someone who watched him more at Napoli to elaborate more about his long passing. It always seemed to me that he had very good long pass in him at Napoli.

Also, both Fifa and PES are giving him 87 value for long pass, which is very good, I guess this must mean something?

[LAM09 6,744]

Why is it extremely alarming? For me what is extremely alarming is our inability to get into goalscoring positions and to score goals, which of course also reduces the number of assists.

He's a DLP, isn't he?

I get the fact that runs aren't being made around him as much as we would like, but that hasn't stopped Luiz completing almost twice as many through balls.

Our midfield needs to offer more than just retention.

[Magic Lamps 11,653]

for those who have not already seen it (sorry if repost) there is an excelletn analysis of Jorginho's impact on the team, strengths and weaknesses. Really gave me some food for thought, cos I am still rather indifferent on him. On the one hand, i get the cycling posession, intelligence, team organization stuff but on the other hand is offensive and defensive direc timpact is very limited

 

[The Skipper 20,593]

2 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

for those who have not already seen it (sorry if repost) there is an excelletn analysis of Jorginho's impact on the team, strengths and weaknesses. Really gave me some food for thought, cos I am still rather indifferent on him. On the one hand, i get the cycling posession, intelligence, team organization stuff but on the other hand is offensive and defensive direc timpact is very limited

 

If the Paredes rumours are true and we do sign him, one could argue that Paredes, if he learns the role correctly, could usurp Jorginho’s spot in the team because he has more of an ability to directly impact offensive and defensive plays. If we do sign him, it’s important he understands he needs to get to Jorginho’s level with some of the categories you mentioned above (intelligence, team organisational stuff etc.) - if he nails that down he has Jorginho beat in that department of ‘direct impact’ that you mention so could then potentially become the starting regista in the team. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

31 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

If the Paredes rumours are true and we do sign him, one could argue that Paredes, if he learns the role correctly, could usurp Jorginho’s spot in the team because he has more of an ability to directly impact offensive and defensive plays. If we do sign him, it’s important he understands he needs to get to Jorginho’s level with some of the categories you mentioned above (intelligence, team organisational stuff etc.) - if he nails that down he has Jorginho beat in that department of ‘direct impact’ that you mention so could then potentially become the starting regista in the team. 

They are realy similar aint they. 

Fun fact, Paredes was coached by Sarri back in Empoli.

EDIT: no he was not, I was miss informed by website. After checking the years myself, Sarri left the summer Paredes came.

[Tautvix 1,321]

Such a nothing player he is. Mistake after mistake, slower than Alonso, zero creativity 

But of course, give a pass to a defender and Sarri and co go have a wank.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,919]

1 minute ago, Tautvix said:

Such a nothing player he is. Mistake after mistake, slower than Alonso, zero creativity 

But of course, give a pass to a defender and Sarri and co go have a wank.

Somebody is going to bring some passing statistic out to prove how good he is, but I dont want to hear it. This guy, his lack of effort, and how weak he makes our midfield look fails the eye test whenever there is any sort of pressure.

[Special Juan 27,424]

He's been absolute shite.

[Milan 17,853]

Bring back Makelele!

[The Mak 4,459]

Suicidal player to have in front of the defence. Presses high up the pitch and vacates so much free space to attack when he inevitably fails to win the ball. About as stupid as asking Fabregas to be the only CDM. Ridiculous tactics.  

[Stats 7,053]

On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 6:08 PM, Tautvix said:

Controlling games? Without creating chances to score? That's not controlling games.

 

Jorginho only passes back... Haven't seen a single good pass forward from him this season.

You see that pass for Willian he created straight after Newcastle scored? Had that been Pedro or Willian, would most likely be in the back of the net...

[Jase 43,479]

Part of me desperately want to see the people suffer a meltdown over Jorginho had he gone to Man City and done well under Guardiola. Those same fellas who are criticizing now would be the same ones bashing the board for messing up on this transfer. Not saying Jorginho has been perfect because he hasn't but it's easy to forget that this is only his first season in English football and he's operating in a clueless side when going forward. Sure he has messed up passes when he shouldn't but those criticizing him for not passing forward, have you seen movement from the attacking players on a consistent basis? How is Jorginho supposed to pass forward when the players in front of him are just standing around waiting to receive the ball at their feet rather than getting onto them?

Also, to those comparing Jorginho with Fabregas, going from a starter to a squad player can sure change people's perception. I don't want to start a debate on who's the better player but it's so easy to forget that while Fabregas has his qualities, his performance level went south like from 2015 onward. There were plenty of complaints how he didn't dominate games and was getting caught out, repeatedly, in defensive situations but because he hasn't been a first team player in ages, people suddenly think he's this perfect midfielder, capable of playing accurate passes every single time and does no wrong on the pitch. He certainly wasn't. Rewind back 3-4 years and I'm sure there are plenty of complaints about Fabregas basically going downhill.

Jorginho hasn't been perfect but he is less of an issue compared to the more glaring ones we have in the team. Hell, you might even argue that Sarri is doing him no favors by making us play non-existent attacking football and average players to try and implement that style. It's pathetic that we're living at a time when people are constantly finding problems all over the place when there more specific ones to worry about and fix. 

[communicate 2,703]

He was awful today. Unless it was a injury or fatigue. He was our worst performer. 

[Fernando 6,455]

24 minutes ago, communicate said:

He was awful today. Unless it was a injury or fatigue. He was our worst performer. 

Fatigue. 

[Special Juan 27,424]

15 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Fatigue. 

Fatigue comes from not resting or dropping players, Sarri is directly to blame from not resting/dropping players.

[Fernando 6,455]

2 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

Fatigue comes from not resting or dropping players, Sarri is directly to blame from not resting/dropping players.

No better options. 

Get the man better players. 

[Special Juan 27,424]

Just now, Fernando said:

No better options. 

Get the man better players. 

Had chance to rest Jorginho for Fabregas in certain competitions didn't do it. Had the chance to rest Alonso for Emerson, didn't do it. Had the chance to rest Willian/Pedro for CHO has hardly done it. 

Whilst we need better players the rotation has been fucking horrific.