🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Mason Mount

[Randomshit 10]

8 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Look guys @Puliiszola is back with different account. 

11 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Look guys @Puliiszola is back with different account.

 

Why? Did he also call you out on your asenine agenda too?

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

By watching the games.

Dont start with this you spent about half a season defending someone who couldn’t control a football or score in a barrell full of fannies, so this is a bit bold from you 😂

Although I would say, ironically, without Mount we are probably similar to how we look without playing Werner under Tuchel in recent times.

No no. Just curious. Thought if you're bring the stats, I have some to throw at you too! lol

And couldn't control a ball? Sure looks that way of late...

[Supermonkey 38]

Mount has improved for me. In that green patch we had he was our best player but he's still sub par in the final third. His finishing is consistently quite poor. 

However his passing and dribbling have improved. I think playing a little further back is his best position. Think of the FA Cup semi final when he played through Werner who got the assist. The assist for the assist. 

If he continues to improve his passing and shooting in the final third he's golden. 

 

[NikkiCFC 8,319]

7 minutes ago, Randomshit said:

Why? Did he also call you out on your asenine agenda too?

No aganda. I praised him when needed. I put stats above and I never saw counterarguments. I am really open for debate about Mount, I want someone to change my mind but I see nothing. I tried so hard to like him.

Btw why you call yourself in 3rd person singular form? 😂

[Randomshit 10]

6 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

No aganda. I praised him when needed. I put stats above and I never saw counterarguments. I am really open for debate about Mount, I want someone to change my mind but I see nothing. I tried so hard to like him.

Btw why you call yourself in 3rd person singular form? 😂

Here is a stat for you, we scored 58 PL games in 38 PL games. 

That's not a typo. That's the truth. All of those stats are meaningless because we as a team have failed to score and convert chances. Put in haaland instead of Werner and mount would have atleast 5-10 more assists. In top 10, only arsenal scored fewer. 

Those 6 goals are more than 10% of our PL goals, understand? You are trying to take away shit from him because he scored againat relegated teams, yet we dropped 5 points to wba. 5!!!! Someone else scores those "Apparently" pointless goals against Wba and we would not have needed help from spurs to get CL.

The fact that a very high majority of fans think he was our best player of the season should be indicative of the kid's quality. Not some random poster trying to boost his ego. 

The stats you posted are pointless given how poor our attack and specially goal scoring all aroind has been. Look at the % of goals he has scored and assisted and you get far better picture of reality.

[NikkiCFC 8,319]

3 hours ago, Randomshit said:

Here is a stat for you, we scored 58 PL games in 38 PL games. 

That's not a typo. That's the truth. All of those stats are meaningless because we as a team have failed to score and convert chances. Put in haaland instead of Werner and mount would have atleast 5-10 more assists. In top 10, only arsenal scored fewer. 

Those 6 goals are more than 10% of our PL goals, understand? You are trying to take away shit from him because he scored againat relegated teams, yet we dropped 5 points to wba. 5!!!! Someone else scores those "Apparently" pointless goals against Wba and we would not have needed help from spurs to get CL.

The fact that a very high majority of fans think he was our best player of the season should be indicative of the kid's quality. Not some random poster trying to boost his ego. 

The stats you posted are pointless given how poor our attack and specially goal scoring all aroind has been. Look at the % of goals he has scored and assisted and you get far better picture of reality.

You could not pick better name for yourself 😂

You are making it as he is some creative force and put all the blame on Timo. 10 more assists? Lol. Go watch Werner compilation of misses and of 20+ big chances he missed you will see just 2 passes coming from Mount.

Yes, Timo stole so many assists from our players but Mount does not deserve special mention there.

Through balls are great indicator of players creativity. 

Last 2 season in PL:

KDB 45

Maddison 25

Tielemans 24

Jorginho 20

Kovacic 17

Buendia 17 (just one season)

Kane 19

Salah 23

Pogba 14

Bruno 20 (season and a half)

David Luiz for example had 12 just last season.

Zieych has 5 in 1177 mins this season.

Caballos has 13 while not being regular for Arsenal last 2 seasons. Ndombele and James Rodriguez 8 just this season in very limited time.

Many, many other players with double digits here... I got tired of writing...

Do you know how many through balls Mount has while playing AM for top4 team in around 6000mins last 2 seasons? 

6! Six! 3 last season, 3 this season. So one through ball every 1000mins (around 11 games).

You can blame others all you want but 8 different players have more open play assists in our squad this season ahead of MM. 

Last season 10 players.

This season he had just one open play assist in the league. Same as 2 GKs!

Overall one open play assist in 2000 mins and one through ball in 1000mins. Yes, great creativity!

Again, MM name is not important, but considering his position and minutes played that player in Chelsea squad should be there in top3, top4 players in the league. Which KDB, Bruno, Maddison, Salah are...

Mount? Not in top100! Do you see the difference? 

 

[Simon1991 233]

 

@NikkiCFC can you please stop cherry picking stats to support your agenda? Through balls, really? Kovacic/Jorgi up there, i guess they're highly creative players then.

Just to add my grain of salt to this debate, which i am not sure why we're having in the first place but moving on.

To the people who don't rate Mount, i am just going to say this. Forget about our opinion of Mount as fan, forget about the POTY. How do you explain ALL his coaches rate him so much? Lampard, Tuchel, Southgate, all the pundits, undroppable in their eyes, why is that? Undroppable in the eyes of the people who know about this game.

Please go ahead and explain why that is.

 

[NikkiCFC 8,319]

On 24/05/2021 at 19:50, Simon1991 said:

 

@NikkiCFC can you please stop cherry picking stats to support your agenda? Through balls, really? Kovacic/Jorgi up there, i guess they're highly creative players then.

Just to add my grain of salt to this debate, which i am not sure why we're having in the first place but moving on.

To the people who don't rate Mount, i am just going to say this. Forget about our opinion of Mount as fan, forget about the POTY. How do you explain ALL his coaches rate him so much? Lampard, Tuchel, Southgate, all the pundits, undroppable in their eyes, why is that? Undroppable in the eyes of the people who know about this game.

Please go ahead and explain why that is.

 

Pretty much the same as Willian. Every manager and pundit liked him so much. But we know the truth.

When you think about it, they are like clone players. Now under Tuchel MM plays almost the same position as Willian. Both taking set pieces, very bad in the final 3rd, both attacking players praised for defensive work, work rate more than attacking abilities. They even have similar dribbling, Willian is faster and that is it. I see the same people who were bashing Willian for years now praise Mount to the heaven. It is weird and only one explanation really...

They are biased because he is academy, poster boy, Lampard successor... Willian last season for example for Chelsea had better season than MM this season when he is voted poty.

I did not saw any rival fans go crazy over Mount. But I saw many Chelsea, United fans go WOW over Foden, Grealish...

And Southgate is as clueless as Lampard tbh. Maddison for example this season has more goals and assists than Mount in around 1500 mins less, so why is he not on this 33 players list?

 

 

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

5 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Pretty much the same as Willian. Every manager and pundit liked him so much. But we know the truth.

When you think about it, they are like clone players. Now under Tuchel MM plays almost the same position as Willian. Both taking set pieces, very bad in the final 3rd, both attacking players praised for defensive work, work rate more than attacking abilities. They even have similar dribbling, Willian is faster and that is it. I see the same people who were bashing Willian for years now praise Mount to the heaven. It is weird and only one explanation really...

They are biased because he is academy, poster boy, Lampard successor... Willian last season for example for Chelsea had better season than MM this season when he is voted poty.

I did not saw any rival fans go crazy over Mount. But I saw many Chelsea, United fans go WOW over Foden, Grealish...

And Southgate is as clueless as Lampard tbh. Maddison for example this season has more goals and assists than Mount in around 1500 mins less, so why is he not on this 33 players list?

 

 

Mount at has consistently produced better numbers tho. Mimimum number of goals Mount has per season in the past 4 years is 8. Willian only beat that tally twice in his career. Willian played in weaker leagues like Ukraine and Russia, hardly produced better numbers. Mount on the other hand shot the Eredivisie to pieces. We bought Wilian when he already was a finished product. Mount still has time on his side.

[Mário César 1,257]

mount is hyped, just like reece james, for example

good squad player but no more than this.

to win titles we need a better players to start a game. its nice to have reece/mount to rotate in some games because its almost impossible to have the same quality in the field and in the bench. 

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

1 minute ago, Mana said:

...no..just no he hasn't.

This is what I mean by people bigging Mount SO much.

13 goals 10 assists is a very good return.

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

2 minutes ago, Mana said:

Actually he scored 9 in the league, don't know where you got 13 goals.

And you're talking as if he turned the club he was in to a powerhouse. They finished 6th.

No I didn't. I did nothing to infer anything about how his goals influenced Vitesse's league position.

Got the stats from transfermarkt

13 goals, 10 assists in 2900 mins. For a midfielder that is an impressive record. It does not really matter if those goals came in the league or in the cup as the level there is low anyway but still good for a then 19 or 20 y.o. coming to a new country.

https://www.transfermarkt.de/mason-mount/leistungsdatenverein/spieler/346483

[NikkiCFC 8,319]

17 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

13 goals 10 assists is a very good return.

Exactly his numbers in Chelsea in PL in 2 seasons. (with 2 goals being set pieces and 7 assists). So very similar to Willian.

Not sure why you guys even bring Vitesse to the table?

But ok, I will join to make it more fun.

Bertrand Traore had 17 goals season in Vitesse.

Lewis Baker 15 goals.

Piazon 11 goals.

Did not see them ever getting back to Chelsea and even getting a little chance not to mention starting spot from day one and 4000mins in debut season.

 

Edited May 25, 2021 by NikkiCFC

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

21 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Exactly his numbers in Chelsea in PL in 2 seasons. (with 2 goals being set pieces and 7 assists). So very similar to Willian.

Not sure why you guys even bring Vitesse to the table?

But ok, I will join to make it more fun.

Bertrand Traore had 17 goals season in Vitesse.

Lewis Baker 15 goals.

Piazon 11 goals.

Did not see them ever getting back to Chelsea and even getting a little chance not to mention starting spot from day one and 4000mins in debut season.

 

As I said before, when you produce prime Willian's numbers but at 19-22 you got potential to get better still. Bertrand Traore and Piazon were attackers and naturally should score more. Also overall Mounts performances were probably more accomplished than Piazons and Traores.

I never watched Lewis Baker play but Piazon and Traore got a few peaks and looked outof their depth mostly at Chelsea. Mount impressed immediately in his first few games at Chelsea. Life is not always fair but would you rather have Piazon or Traore instead of Mount here?

I am not even a Mount fanboy, I used to be a critic. I still think we should rely less on him and if we had a better set of attackers he would probably not play that much but I see his value now. To compare him to a fully matured Willian when he is 10 years younger is just not adequate. Willian had years and years to improve and never did. Mount already made more of a progress in 2 years here than Willian did in his entire Chelsea career.  Mount obviously is more of a workhorse than a creator himself and his end product could be better but you can see that it will get better. He gets into good positions consistently, he makes the right choices more and more often just his execution is still a bit off. Willian was held back by his incredible lack of game intelligence. Mount definitely has a sound understanding of the game. he is only held back by his lack of experience at the top level. That is why I can totally see him ending up as a Chelsea great. I really wish we would buy superior talents like Sancho instead but we won't, so we got to stick with what we have. Given this chance, I think Mount is the type of character to take it. He might not have made it here in another era but he is at the right place at the right time.

[Simon1991 233]

3 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Pretty much the same as Willian. Every manager and pundit liked him so much. But we know the truth.

When you think about it, they are like clone players. Now under Tuchel MM plays almost the same position as Willian. Both taking set pieces, very bad in the final 3rd, both attacking players praised for defensive work, work rate more than attacking abilities. They even have similar dribbling, Willian is faster and that is it. I see the same people who were bashing Willian for years now praise Mount to the heaven. It is weird and only one explanation really...

They are biased because he is academy, poster boy, Lampard successor... Willian last season for example for Chelsea had better season than MM this season when he is voted poty.

I did not saw any rival fans go crazy over Mount. But I saw many Chelsea, United fans go WOW over Foden, Grealish...

And Southgate is as clueless as Lampard tbh. Maddison for example this season has more goals and assists than Mount in around 1500 mins less, so why is he not on this 33 players list?

 

 

You really can't see how Mount is a different class from Willian now, can you?

Funny how everything just boils down to goals and assist with you, when there is so much more to this game than just that. What about the defence breaking pass before the assist, what about a progressive run that opened up some space for a teammate? Look i agree that he can be wasteful at times and still has aspects of his game to improve on, but that's exactly what he's been doing the last few years, and he does bring a lot to the table when he plays.

I don't know, I am just having a hard time reconciling with the fact some of our fans can't recognize quality when it's there for everyone to see. At least it's good to know that the people whose judgment actually matters can see it.

I imagine there's not much point in debating further, we just see too different things.

[Jype 6,398]

7 hours ago, Mana said:

Actually my mistake according to Transfermarkt he scored 8 league goals... Those 5 extra goals are from the Conference Play-off League which I have no idea what it is but from what I gathered, it's a pre-season tournament.

Not a pre-season tournament but rather an end of the season play-off for European spots (kind of like Championship promotions) for teams in places 4-7 so they were definitely meaningful games and part of the league season. Mount scored a hat-trick in the semi-final first leg, a goal in the semi-final return leg as well as a goal and an assist in the play-off final which Vitesse won to gain European football. For Vitesse he definitely showed up big time at the most important part of their season. 

Don't know why Transfermarkt show 8 goals for him, but his overall stats for the season according to multiple sources (Soccerway, WhoScored, Wikipedia etc.) are 9 goals and 8 assists in the regular season and 5 more goals and an assist in the European play-off, overall 14+9 in the league. Also worth noting that he took a while to get going (unsurprising for a 19-yo in his first season as a pro footballer) but after the turn of the year he got double digits in goals in less than half a season.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Jype

[DDA 9,938]

Mount has been fantastic this season... at times, he has been the driving force behind our fantastic form leading us into a CL final. 

It's not all about goals and assists you know. Although I would like to see him up these numbers. 

He has a huge influence on the team when playing on the pitch...and that's why he plays almost every game.

 

 

[Jase 43,479]

30 minutes ago, DDA said:

at times, he has been the a driving force behind our fantastic form leading us into a CL final. 

Fixed.

30 minutes ago, DDA said:

He has a huge influence on the team when playing on the pitch...and that's why he plays almost every game.

Judging by some of the results without Mount, one could also argue that we can perform well and win games without him. We have not reached the point (hopefully not ever) where we become useless without Mount on the pitch. 

[Nero 1,872]

 

[Jype 6,398]

Mason Mount, European Champion. Has a nice ring to it.

Created the winning goal today too.