The Conte Thread

[Jase 43,479]

3 hours ago, pHaRaOn said:

Conte has praised Emenalo before:

"My relationship with Michael was very good as he helped me a lot last season"
http://www.chelseafc.com/news/latest-news/2017/11/five-at-5pm0.html

Back then it was also reported that Emenalo was Conte' close ally
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/chelsea-news-michael-emenalo-leaves-robs-antonio-conte-close-ally-peacemaker-maria-granovskaia-a8041481.html

 

I don't necessarily mean he's lying about his relationship with Emenalo but more of the fact that he's just gonna say whatever convenient to absolve himself of any blame for this season's failure. 

[Unionjack 7,531]

On 14/05/2018 at 9:57 PM, oldportblue said:

Getting a manager that won't whine *every* press conference about the team not being good enough to compete will also help. The players heard it so often that I truly believe it had an averse effect on them and the chase for top 4 (we were clearly good enough to get top 4 and a more positive manager, in terms of tactics and overall demeanor, probably would've gotten it fairly easily this season).

When Conte comes out stating we need to do more in the transfer marker he is whining and it had an averse effect on the team but when Eden comes out stating basically hes gonna fuck off if je doesn't have better players around him hes done the right thing  and peeps dont blame him.

Amazing.

 

13 hours ago, Jason said:

At this point, it's tough to take Conte's words seriously anymore. Anything that comes out from him these days feels more like excuses than anything else. 

Am I in some sort of Groundhog Day dream? What other manager does this remind you of?

[11Drogba 2,000]

1 hour ago, Unionjack said:

When Conte comes out stating we need to do more in the transfer marker he is whining and it had an averse effect on the team but when Eden comes out stating basically hes gonna fuck off if je doesn't have better players around him hes done the right thing  and peeps dont blame him.

Amazing.

If Hazard said this before and after the games almost every week I am sure he would be criticized too.

Also Conte  may not be getting his first targets but he is obviously involved in the process. So he is partly responsible unlike Hazard.

[Unionjack 7,531]

2 minutes ago, 11Drogba said:

If Hazard said this before and after the games almost every week I am sure he would be criticized too.

Also Conte  may not be getting his first targets but he is obviously involved in the process. So he is partly responsible unlike Hazard.

But we have mo idea WHAT the process is. Hes said many times he only gives his opinions WHEN hes asked for them.

And if he was the only one of our managers to have had this problem I;d be all over him too. But we have got a bad record of it.

I remember the 2nd time Mou came and a report about his contract stating he wouldn't have anything to do with players coming or going.

This just has to be one of our prioritis that needs sorting.

I'm wondering if our next manager will contact any of our old ones for ideas on how the board operates. Or has a solicitor to go tru his contract?

I know if I was coming for an interview and seen the headlines, heard the gossip etc I sure would be on the phone to Conte/Mou asking them what went wrong/ Its enough to put any good manager off.

Unless they were vain or cocky enough to think it would be different foe them!

[Adnane 1,101]

1 hour ago, Mana said:

If Conte goes, then we should get rid of the players who are in to player power.

If we compare the 2015 squad with the 2017 squad, here are the usual suspects:

- Hazard
- Willian
- Cahill
- Courtois
- Fabregas

I left out two players - Pedro (Just came in 2015) and Azpi (Has performed well both seasons).

Yes, the Hazard Brigade will raise their pitchforks, but no fucking player is bigger than the club. 

 

That's amazing, we have only kept 5 players in the first team ( active one obviously not the likes of Christensen ) in the last 3 years, considering that in 2015 we had normally assembled a core of players post 2012 transition ready to go for years to come...

There might be a resemblance of lack of consistency then, we formed a strong core for almost 10 years before but we are struggling to have consistent results now because of that same reason.

Let's look at teams like Juve, Bayern or Real Madrid who are for me the most successful ones in the last 5-6 years ( excluding Barcelona because they have an outlier ), the catch is that despite a comparable coach rotation to us ( except maybe Juve ), these teams are keeping their world class players put for a lot of years, hence why any new manager only needs to focus about the winning part. This is a reliable model because it means that your success becomes independent from your manager, and that the players make the team. 

On the other hand, both our board hasn't been consistent enough with their recruitments/sales and these players themselves haven't been performing consistently.

The interesting part is that the massive wave of recruitment in 2012 - 2014 was for this sole purpose, forming a core with the following players : Courtois, Hazard, Willian, Salah Shuerrle, Matic, Fabregas, Costa, Oscar, De Bruyne, Azpilicueta, Zouma, Filipe Luis, etc. We have just tremendously failed at assembling this talent in a consistent time span for the good benefit of the club.

And a reason of that might be our board actually bending too much for managers, the reasons we shipped out talents like Filipe, Salah, and KDB is Mourinho, some players were just not suiting the philosophy of Conte ( Zouma, Oscar... ) and we now find ourselves with a very weak core of players...

All that being said, we are building one now with the additions of Christensen, Kanté, Morata, Bakayoko etc. But if we are to get anything from these guys then consistency should be there, not only from a coaching standpoint ( I have no issues with changing coaches as it provides a different dynamic and room for improvement to the team ) but also in how we handle our transfers. 

Simply put, if players like Morata and Bakayoko are in demand tomorrow we should be saying no and keeping them, if we believed enough in them in the 1st place to invest such a hefty amount of money then we should be equally believing in them and keeping them on the long run ( and I genuinely believe they are indeed good players ). 

[Tomo 21,751]

1 hour ago, Mana said:

If Conte goes, then we should get rid of the players who are in to player power.

If we compare the 2015 squad with the 2017 squad, here are the usual suspects:

- Hazard
- Willian
- Cahill
- Courtois
- Fabregas

I left out two players - Pedro (Just came in 2015) and Azpi (Has performed well both seasons).

Yes, the Hazard Brigade will raise their pitchforks, but no fucking player is bigger than the club. 

Out of interest, what has made you (or any one else who thinks it) come to the conclusion Hazard has an uncontrollable ego and bad attitude? 

[Tomo 21,751]

16 minutes ago, Mana said:

He doesn't have to have an uncontrollable ego or a bad attitude. He can just not be bothered to play on the pitch (like he has a huge number of times in the past 3 years). That's still player power.

That's not true either. People seem to think him not being at his best equals can't be bothered.

[Tomo 21,751]

11 minutes ago, Mana said:

I've seen a handful of games that he doesn't look bothered. I'm not saying every game he's not at his best = not bothered, but there were actual games that he was invisible/did hardly anything.

He took some lessons from Willian.

You could say that with any player. I could probably even cherry pick moments were Kante didn't "look" bothered if i try hard enough, doesn't make it true.

The reality is in such a high level of sport, if Eden was turning it off and on as he pleased he wouldn't be a quarter as good as he is, it's impossible to do such a thing while maintaining a world class level. If Hazard had that type of attitude he would have gone down the route of the likes of Taarabt, Nani, Ravel Morrison, Quaresma and be anywhere from Turkey to Mexico by now.

[Cosmin 2,484]

43 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Out of interest, what has made you (or any one else who thinks it) come to the conclusion Hazard has an uncontrollable ego and bad attitude? 

Well, his actual attitude someone speaks volumes. He looks lazy and like he doesn't give a crap.

Also, his statements lately don't do him any justice either on that aspect.

[akgw13 867]

I definitely have had my issues with Hazard and his attitude but I think we also discount just how heavily we rely on him. Most games if he isnt absolutely humming our attack is useless. That weighs on a player, he is allowed bad games. It just so happens that when he has bad games our attack grounds to a halt. I am curious to see him play under an offensive minded coach with a potential new signing or two and a more transitional midfield. 

He is so isolated in the 352 system with Giroud/Fabregas/Bakayoko combo it must be so frustrating.

[Tomo 21,751]

11 minutes ago, Mana said:

Except Kante is more consistent on being a beast in midfield. Off days happen. Hazard is not consistent at all. As I said before, he hasn't been his best in more games, than he has been at best for the past 3 years.

Impossible? Tell that to Messi, Ronaldo and other actual consistent WC players out there.

I meant it's impossible to switch effort and attitude on and off and suddenly switch it on and be world class whenever you please. If Hazard had such attitude he would have gone down a Ballotelli esque path at best.

Hazard"s only inconsistent if you are judging the consistency line at his very highest level, he's that good that even at 50% he's still most of our attack.

7 minutes ago, Cosmin said:

Well, his actual attitude someone speaks volumes. He looks lazy and like he doesn't give a crap.

Also, his statements lately don't do him any justice either on that aspect.

Literally every interview i have ever seen from him he comes across as a great with excellent character, he evidently gets on well with his teammates and the few occasions he'a a sub he's always talking to his teammates having a laugh etc... Yet you get even a section of his own fanbase talking about him like we have Ballotelli mark 2.

[Tomo 21,751]

4 minutes ago, Mana said:

Maybe that's why he's been sub-par all season. Turned off his effort, and when he tries to turn it back on he struggles. I'm sorry, but we all know Hazard could do way better than he is currently performing. We've seen it before. Unless he can't do it no more.

All season? He produced some of his best displays in a Chelsea shirt in the first half of this season.

4 minutes ago, Mana said:

 

That's because he's unfortunately the only attacking player this season that carries any kind of threat (Willian at one small point though).

Even when he had in form Cesc, Costa and Mata before that he was still the main danger in attack.

[Tomo 21,751]

1 minute ago, Mana said:

...and why did he suddenly turned sub-par in the 2nd half of the season? It's the Costa thing all over again minus the bad ego/drama.

That's why I personally think he's involved in this player power thing.

Not even close to Costa, he looked like he never even played proffesionally before when he fell. Most games Hazard still gives us a threat even when below par, there's the odd game he was bad (Arsenal at home in the cup)  but in general he is usually one of the best on both teams statistically atleast.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

11 minutes ago, Mana said:

When I'm talking about the Costa situation happening again, I meant that a drop of performance has happened for the remainder of the season.

"Butbutbutbut...it's hard to maintain that level!"

Salah did. KDB did. No excuse on that.

Salah and KDB both play in attacking systems and their system isn't completely reliant on them alone. If they aren't in top form other players pick up the slack. That's the problem here. When Hazard isn't on his game there's no one to step in and our attack becomes a dead stick.

I can assure you that both have had dips in form this season you just didn't notice it because some other player would pick up the slack and their team would keep playing well and keep winning. 

The moment Hazard gets a dip in form the entire team performance drops off massively.

[Tomo 21,751]

18 minutes ago, Mana said:

When I'm talking about the Costa situation happening again, I meant that a drop of performance has happened for the remainder of the season.

"Butbutbutbut...it's hard to maintain that level!"

Salah did. KDB did. No excuse on that.

KDB dropped off last season in a similar way Hazard did this.

And to expand on @Belgiannuttcomment re the systems, Hazard being as good as he has been for us is the equivalent of a defender being a rock for a Brendan Rodgers team.