The Hiddink Thread

[Blue Colored Sky 1,807]

14 hours ago, Robguima said:

Not so sure about bottom of the table, but agree sacking Jose immediately improved morale. However, the transformation wasn't that sudden to me at least.

But, even in your own argument, the difference is not Hiddink, but the fact that he is not Mourinho, as I pointed out earlier.

In other words, would ANY other manager be able to do similar as Hiddink, or perhaps better? We don't know.

Besides, what we need is a manager, not a coach. We need a guy who can help revamp this weak squad. Like I said before, Hiddink is a waste of time as most tampon managers are. Using a temp manager is even more baffling when you consider we don't have a target perm manager yet.

Didn't you already cross one option saying that

a) transformation wasn't so sudden which provides that simply not being Mourinho wasn't a factor ? Continuing that way,  other factors has to play. Players may get fitter, may regain confidence, may have freedom in play, tactic was shaped a bit and few other players playing now. Which happened progressively under Hiddink and not as sudden I underline it again, which gives Hiddink the benefit of the doubt that he stimulates this by his own good work ?

[robsblubot 3,228]

1 hour ago, Blue Colored Sky said:

Didn't you already cross one option saying that

a) transformation wasn't so sudden which provides that simply not being Mourinho wasn't a factor ? Continuing that way,  other factors has to play. Players may get fitter, may regain confidence, may have freedom in play, tactic was shaped a bit and few other players playing now. Which happened progressively under Hiddink and not as sudden I underline it again, which gives Hiddink the benefit of the doubt that he stimulates this by his own good work ?

No, I've been emphasizing that it's not a single factor. Precisely the opposite of saying Hiddink is the main factor.

There was progression under jose as well. I just think (Henrique's point) that Jose leaving gave certain players a short-term morale boost, but the fitness levels had already been going up naturally. As I wrote before, I actually disagreed with Henrique who believed sacking Jose was necessary. We don't have a competitive squad, so we could be in the process of rebuilding already instead of playing the same senior players - many of which won't be here next season. 

BTW, it is very difficult to give shape to unfit and/or unwilling players. I've seen teams lose their shape (with the same players) during the break many times before. Perhaps not as drastically though - that's why I also think Jose losing the players was also a factor.

I did not say Hiddink was doing a bad job... my point remains that perhaps other managers would've been able to accomplish the same. He's been getting results against weaker opposition and getting by, or losing, against better opposition. So, a good job? yes. He's managing an expensive squad - far more expensive than Everton's and Tottenham's, so can we say he is really overachieving with this crop of players?

If we say Hiddink is overachieving (doing a great job), which implies the players are really lacking and not worth their valuations, because the results have only been decent, how can we then say Jose was underachieving back then when the same players had been far more unfit? 

 

@Muzchap fair point... he knows the club too so no need to adapt to the structure and staff. However, by the same logic shouldn't we have kept Jose then - who has done a much better job than Hiddink ever did? That's why these correlations don't work so well in football: too many variables.

[Fernando 6,376]

58 minutes ago, Robguima said:

No, I've been emphasizing that it's not a single factor. Precisely the opposite of saying Hiddink is the main factor.

There was progression under jose as well. I just think (Henrique's point) that Jose leaving gave certain players a short-term morale boost, but the fitness levels had already been going up naturally. As I wrote before, I actually disagreed with Henrique who believed sacking Jose was necessary. We don't have a competitive squad, so we could be in the process of rebuilding already instead of playing the same senior players - many of which won't be here next season. 

BTW, it is very difficult to give shape to unfit and/or unwilling players. I've seen teams lose their shape (with the same players) during the break many times before. Perhaps not as drastically though - that's why I also think Jose losing the players was also a factor.

I did not say Hiddink was doing a bad job... my point remains that perhaps other managers would've been able to accomplish the same. He's been getting results against weaker opposition and getting by, or losing, against better opposition. So, a good job? yes. He's managing an expensive squad - far more expensive than Everton's and Tottenham's, so can we say he is really overachieving with this crop of players?

If we say Hiddink is overachieving (doing a great job), which implies the players are really lacking and not worth their valuations, because the results have only been decent, how can we then say Jose was underachieving back then when the same players had been far more unfit? 

 

@Muzchap fair point... he knows the club too so no need to adapt to the structure and staff. However, by the same logic shouldn't we have kept Jose then - who has done a much better job than Hiddink ever did? That's why these correlations don't work so well in football: too many variables.

I think it's obvious my friend. You are wasting your time arguing, Mourinho lost the players just like he did at Madrid. 

You just need to see how Oscar and Mikel are talking about Hiddink. This was the same attitude and atmosphere many years ago when Hiddink took over Scolari. 

Sorry you can say all this about the players being professional and all but in reality it never works like that. People who work for an ass of a manager will more then likely will do a half ass job then as to opposed people who liked their boss. 

Mourinho was the problem and I'm glad he was sacked. Mourinho is a genius in short term but he can't hold down a team for much longer because of his personality, ego and way of treating players. 

[Adnane 1,101]

I never implied it was 100% on Guus. 

We will never know if it is Mourinho's departure, the player taking their responsibilities, Guus' choices or a simple continuity to the progress we had been already showing under José, though I think it is a combination of everything. 

But you can't help but wonder, what would've happened if Mourinho had made a few choices in the start of the season, like bringing in Mikel to the team ? Using natural Fullbacks ? Calming things down in pre-match pressers ? We surely would've done better right ? Well, that's what Guus is doing =)

[Fulham Broadway 16,406]

I am a big fan of hiddink. He did well here last time and he's doing well again.

He tries the kids, gets results, restored confidence in the first team and gives them freedom to play decent football.

Our managers don't last here, there doesn't seem to be a stand out option in the summer, so give him a 1 year deal.

 

 

[Last Sicarius 610]

Since media doesnt look at us like likely target to  make some shitstorm, our players looks like feel free of any stress. Guus made very good work and his emotionality  is opposite than Mourinho.

But after this season we need trainer with big hand, which will must have made a lot of changes in team. We need some class player and our youngs needs to gets some minutes. Now we can see that Baba can play only when we dont have any other choice and RLC doesn't get any minutes even when we are winning 4-1 with reserve City squad. But i can see a bit of hope, exactly i mean Traore. He is very good alternate for Costa. We need to discard FlacaoI(he is still here?) and make some profit about Remy.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Last Sicarius
correction

[Laylabelle 9,300]

2 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

I am a big fan of hiddink. He did well here last time and he's doing well again.

He tries the kids, gets results, restored confidence in the first team and gives them freedom to play decent football.

Our managers don't last here, there doesn't seem to be a stand out option in the summer, so give him a 1 year deal.

 

 

Yeah there is no point giving him a longer contract as that usually is the kiss of death

[robsblubot 3,228]

7 hours ago, Fernando said:

I think it's obvious my friend. You are wasting your time arguing, Mourinho lost the players just like he did at Madrid. 

You just need to see how Oscar and Mikel are talking about Hiddink. This was the same attitude and atmosphere many years ago when Hiddink took over Scolari. 

Sorry you can say all this about the players being professional and all but in reality it never works like that. People who work for an ass of a manager will more then likely will do a half ass job then as to opposed people who liked their boss. 

Mourinho was the problem and I'm glad he was sacked. Mourinho is a genius in short term but he can't hold down a team for much longer because of his personality, ego and way of treating players. 

Preaching to the choir... I absolutely agree Mourinho has a problem as a manager and that is long term group management. He's completely incapable of pulling a Ferguson at any club.

BTW, I don't even like Jose... not even about how defensive he is, but his dislike of possession.

Oscar is prob playing the worse football of his career and Mikel is playing the same way he has always played - in the last 10 years at the club. I won't go there as I don't want to offend anyone. The diff is that while before he wasn't good enough to start, now he is. That tells us more about our roster than anything else really.

Ironically, the difference was that Jose was trying to recover some players by sticking with them: e.g. Matic. While Hiddink picked Mikel instead which improved things a bit short term because of initial Matic's poor form. That was then though and at the moment Matic has already upped his game and IMO Mikel's selection is hurting the team in big matches. However, big matches don't matter this season too much do they?

BTW, Matic's poor form was caused by the same poor fitness levels all around - big guys get even slower when unfit.

Also, as pointed out before, Hiddink handling of youth has been as bad as Jose's. Baba only played because Hiddink had no other choice.

 

[Muzchap 8,966]

12 hours ago, Robguima said:

No, I've been emphasizing that it's not a single factor. Precisely the opposite of saying Hiddink is the main factor.

There was progression under jose as well. I just think (Henrique's point) that Jose leaving gave certain players a short-term morale boost, but the fitness levels had already been going up naturally. As I wrote before, I actually disagreed with Henrique who believed sacking Jose was necessary. We don't have a competitive squad, so we could be in the process of rebuilding already instead of playing the same senior players - many of which won't be here next season. 

BTW, it is very difficult to give shape to unfit and/or unwilling players. I've seen teams lose their shape (with the same players) during the break many times before. Perhaps not as drastically though - that's why I also think Jose losing the players was also a factor.

I did not say Hiddink was doing a bad job... my point remains that perhaps other managers would've been able to accomplish the same. He's been getting results against weaker opposition and getting by, or losing, against better opposition. So, a good job? yes. He's managing an expensive squad - far more expensive than Everton's and Tottenham's, so can we say he is really overachieving with this crop of players?

If we say Hiddink is overachieving (doing a great job), which implies the players are really lacking and not worth their valuations, because the results have only been decent, how can we then say Jose was underachieving back then when the same players had been far more unfit? 

 

@Muzchap fair point... he knows the club too so no need to adapt to the structure and staff. However, by the same logic shouldn't we have kept Jose then - who has done a much better job than Hiddink ever did? That's why these correlations don't work so well in football: too many variables.

Good point, but it's like magnets - Jose's personality was pushing things away, Guus is overly positive (like seriously, the dude must much MDMA all day), and his personality clicked better with the players. 

The problem with Jose is the perception of Jose a miserable, bitter, twisted ego maniac. That's how I see him, I don't doubt he is a decent man and I know and have seen he is a great manager, but his pettiness (rightly or wrongly) caused a negative vibe. 

Guus is and will be the perfect tonic, don't get me wrong if we were losing every week and he was still being 'optimistic' I know that would also piss me off  

i will always be of the belief that had Mou stayed, we wouldn't be in the position we are now, watching and finally enjoying some matches this season, for whatever reason the magic of MOURINHO - upped and disappeared like a fart in the wind

[robsblubot 3,228]

45 minutes ago, Muzchap said:

Good point, but it's like magnets - Jose's personality was pushing things away, Guus is overly positive (like seriously, the dude must much MDMA all day), and his personality clicked better with the players. 

The problem with Jose is the perception of Jose a miserable, bitter, twisted ego maniac. That's how I see him, I don't doubt he is a decent man and I know and have seen he is a great manager, but his pettiness (rightly or wrongly) caused a negative vibe. 

Guus is and will be the perfect tonic, don't get me wrong if we were losing every week and he was still being 'optimistic' I know that would also piss me off  

i will always be of the belief that had Mou stayed, we wouldn't be in the position we are now, watching and finally enjoying some matches this season, for whatever reason the magic of MOURINHO - upped and disappeared like a fart in the wind

hehe because he's NEW!!!

Wait long enough and his so great demeanor will be poison in the locker room... especially when results don't come. Players will be like, "is this dude even alive?! We are getting crushed out there! do something!"  Benitez was like that too - always calm and composed.

Alex Ferguson and Wenger are exceptions - for different reasons. The norm is that they don't last long because as soon something gets stale in the locker room, the quickest and easiest way to freshen the air is always to replace the manager.

[Cech's helmet 220]

He's handling the Pato situation in a very odd way. So the guy can't even play for 20 minutes?

[kmk108 1,186]

6 minutes ago, Cech's helmet said:

He's handling the Pato situation in a very odd way. So the guy can't even play for 20 minutes?

What's the point? If he's not 100% fit and performing better than Traore, it's a waste of space on the bench.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

This clueless old clown continues to play Hazard and Willian on the wrong wing. How daft do you have to be not to realize that Hazard is much better on the left. Ditto Willian. Play Hazard on the left and Willian on the right. Fucksake, you old shite. 

[Fernando 6,376]

24 minutes ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

This clueless old clown continues to play Hazard and Willian on the wrong wing. How daft do you have to be not to realize that Hazard is much better on the left. Ditto Willian. Play Hazard on the left and Willian on the right. Fucksake, you old shite. 

This clueless clown is still better then Mourinho. 

Even though we are not the best in the world he has brought back a fighting mentality. We don't lose that easily which is good. 

[DYC. 7,542]

Guus Geluk, ik denk dat ik van je houd.

[Barbara 15,149]

1 minute ago, DYC. said:

Guus Geluk, ik denk dat ik van je houd.

if that's you calling him lucky, shall we keep him in the technical staff just for lucky charm effects?

[Last Sicarius 610]

6 minutes ago, Fernando said:

This clueless clown is still better then Mourinho. 

Even though we are not the best in the world he has brought back a fighting mentality. We don't lose that easily which is good. 

So true, with Mourinho we probably wont win, maybe draw.  Guss are doing good job in our club so far if we consider our start in season.

[MefiX19 1,092]

5 minutes ago, DYC. said:

Guus Geluk, ik denk dat ik van je houd.

What's this? Some alien codes or something?