The Mourinho Thread

[Korea 734]

I give Mourinho this season and next to win the title. However, realistically, 2015-2016 season.....

The team makeup isn't a Mourinho team. Next season, with pretty much everyone on Chelsea involved with the world cup, I expect a late transition as well. However, by 2015, Mourinho should have no excuse of not winning the league by than or at least coming close....

He knows what type of Cms he needs, so Im assuming he has a plan either in Jan or the summer to get a cm.

[darrus 422]

The overreactions about people overreacting have become bigger than the overreactions themselves!

That probably sums up this thread and this board.

Fact is we're definitely a team in transition and the reasons were already named - up to last year main players were the same as 5-6 years ago, now we have an almost full 'change of guard'. Fact is - Roman knew the man he is calling to build him a team, knew his preferred tactics and ways of playing and still appointed him as a manager. And Mourinho (Benitez, Guardiola, Klopp, any other name) is not in the team to keep players happy or adjust to their needs. Coaches are either appointed to get results NOW!! or to create long term project.

Everyone loves using Barcelona as an example, but most forget that before going up they went through the abysmal period while building the system. Then they got a bit lucky with the generation they had - it's really one in a million coincidence to get Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Puyol and others at your academy basically at the same time. But the main thing - now that they have their system of play players that don't fit, no matter how great they are, are quickly shipped out. Eto'O, Ibrahimovich, Villa as examples.

So it's either you get a bunch of players, stick them somewhere on the field where each of them feels more comfortable, build the play around it and get something out of the season. Problem in this is that next season you're probably going to get different players and will have to adjust your tactics to them. Or you create a system - sure, again based on what you have in front of you, but the point is in the system you remove any player, replace him with another one and it still works.

Now everyone knows that Mourinho is building from the back - solid defence, quick counter-attacking and compact in the middle with some interchangeable positions and posisbility to change scheme during the match. Wether the players will get it and wether it works we'll se in spring - only then it will become clear if we're up to something or the season is lost. Right now when we're in prime position in League Cup, with another cup not even started, first place in CL group and in worst case 7 points off the 1st place in the table with 11 matches out of 38 played it's still too early to declare that it's not working. That the team is not playing as good as the fans would like and we're dropping points when we are not supposed to, yes, fair point. Some personal decisions too (I'll still take Oscar over Mata as #10 any day but Lampard should be benched I think).

Though I object when people say we're getting lucky results. 1 time is lucky, 2 times is coincidence, 3 times is already a rule. It's not ideal to survive by last minute goals or forced mistakes by opponents but with team in transition (no matter how many people here dislike the word ) we get results the way we can, the main thing we are getting them. Mourinho's teams are always judged by his second season with Chelsea1 being an exception. First season is a build-up, and again at the end of season we'll see if it builds up to something or not.

I for one refuse to start overreacting in November. Though the temptation is great I must admit.

[Kojo 4,676]

Yes, transition. We won the Champions League playing very much the same football we were playing under Mourinho with almost the same spine. Years of failing to develop a new identity or even an evolution of the old has left us with a gap that we're still trying to bridge.

The funny thing is I think we're still very much in the title race, and we're almost certainly going to qualify for the next stage of the Champions League so quite why the need for panic when the team we were all expecting to be challenging for the title have lost to Cardiff and lost to us, are currently losing to Sunderland I don't know.

Do you know what transition means?

Transition is what Man City went through in 2010-2011, when they couldn't play football for shit, they where forming a team, then the next season they won the title.

Yes obviously a team is going to get better as the season progresses, that's if the players are kept and coming into there primes. You keep saying it as I'm panicking, I'm really not, I still think we will challenge for the title, that's if November doesn't beat us. We are not in transition at all, last season we where, this season we have played much better. But we only shown it in the first few games, we can still come back into it.

But if this season is just another test season then what is the point? It's just another season wasted, WE HAVE TO CHALLENGE FOR THE TITLE. If we don't then this season is an instant disaster.

[Heisenberg 1,824]

Spot. Fucking. On.

The Mikel/Lampard debate is the perfect example of this. The simple fact is neither is perfect for what we need but if neither of them performs then the club suffers. Most would love for Mikel to put in the type of performance he did against Everton week-in and week-out, but he doesn't. Similarly we'd like Lamps to put in the type of performances he did at points this season.

The fact that some can't even wait until the end of the match to post an 'I was right' comment is laughable.

What most of us recognise is that we've lacked managerial stability to provide and identity for this club. That identity won't come overnight, but we have a great man in charge who loves this club. Kneejerk reactions and individual agendas aren't what I'd call supporting this club.

Fuck you you are great !

[Kojo 4,676]

That probably sums up this thread and this board.

Fact is we're definitely a team in transition. Fact is - Roman knew the man he is calling to build him a team, knew his preferred tactics and ways of playing and still appointed him as a manager. And Mourinho (Benitez, Guardiola, Klopp, any other name) is not in the team to keep players happy or adjust to their needs. Coaches are either appointed to get results NOW!! or to create long term project.

Everyone loves using Barcelona as an example, but most forget that before going up they went through the abysmal period while building the system. Then they got a bit lucky with the generation they had - it's really one in a million coincidence to get Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Puyol and others at your academy basically at the same time. But the main thing - now that they have their system of play players that don't fit, no matter how great they are, are quickly shipped out. Eto'O, Ibrahimovich, Villa as examples.

So it's either you get a bunch of players, stick them somewhere on the field where each of them feels more comfortable, build the play around it and get something out of the season. Problem in this is that next season you're probably going to get different players and will have to adjust your tactics to them. Or you create a system - sure, again based on what you have in front of you, but the point is in the system you remove any player, replace him with another one and it still works.

Now everyone knows that Mourinho is building from the back - solid defence, quick counter-attacking and compact in the middle with some interchangeable positions and posisbility to change scheme during the match. Wether the players will get it and wether it works we'll se in spring - only then it will become clear if we're up to something or the season is lost. Right now when we're in prime position in League Cup, with another cup not even started, first place in CL group and in worst case 7 points off the 1st place in the table with 11 matches out of 38 played it's still too early to declare that it's not working. That the team is not playing as good as the fans would like and we're dropping points when we are not supposed to, yes, fair point. Some personal decisions too (I'll still take Oscar over Mata as #10 any day but Lampard should be benched I think).

Though I object when people say we're getting lucky results. 1 time is lucky, 2 times is coincidence, 3 times is already a rule. It's not ideal to survive by last minute goals or forced mistakes by opponents but with team in transition (no matter how many people here dislike the word ) we get results the way we can, the main thing we are getting them. Mourinho's teams are always judged by his second season with Chelsea1 being an exception. First season is a build-up, and again at the end of season we'll see if it builds up to something or not.

I for one refuse to start overreacting in November. Though the temptation is great I must admit.

Oh my god learn what transition actually means.

Stop using it as an excuse, if we don't challenge for the title then the season has been a disaster, end of.

We have spend far too much money, Hazard, Oscar, Mata, Torres, Mikel, Luiz, Ramires, Cole, Terry, Ivan, Cech and Cahill have been here for long enough to know who they are in this club, a transition season is when a new team is built from scratch, the only team that are in transition this season are Spurs, they have bought a new team, we haven't. We've only added more players with Willian, Schurrle, De Bruyne and Eto'o, and only one of them is a starter.

[AndersonBLUE 819]

Oh my god learn what transition actually means.

Stop using it as an excuse, if we don't challenge for the title then the season has been a disaster, end of.

We have spend far too much money, Hazard, Oscar, Mata, Torres, Mikel, Luiz, Ramires, Cole, Terry, Ivan, Cech and Cahill have been here for long enough to know who they are in this club, a transition season is when a new team is built from scratch, the only team that are in transition this season are Spurs, they have bought a new team, we haven't. We've only added more players with Willian, Schurrle, De Bruyne and Eto'o, and only one of them is a starter.

You define transition when a club buys a new set of players. It can also mean when a club changes it's philosophy, which is exactly what Chelsea is doing right now. And the thing is, we are still in the title race, despite what some people think.

[Kojo 4,676]

You define transition when a club buys a new set of players. It can also mean when a club changes it's philosophy, which is exactly what Chelsea is doing right now. And the thing is, we are still in the title race, despite what some people think.

How has it changed it's philosophy?

The clubs prime target has been to play attacking football rather than counter attacking football since 2011-2012 season when AVB first started.

We are not in transition, we are set and ready to go, yes we will get better, but we have to challenge for the title and now is the time.

[AndersonBLUE 819]

How has it changed it's philosophy?

The clubs prime target has been to play attacking football rather than counter attacking football since 2011-2012 season when AVB first started.

We are not in transition, we are set and ready to go, yes we will get better, but we have to challenge for the title and now is the time.

It changed it's philosophy when FFP came in and signing a manager on a 4 year deal. And from the performances, you can tell there is change happening off field.

[Barbara 15,149]

I disagree with the main point. Lower fan expectation? This is a team which finished 3rd last year. Added more players and brought in a great manager. Expectations are to do better than last year and that's normal. Doesn't mean the fans are spoilt. Sure, the fans should have more patience but the expectations of challenging for the title are fine. Not over-ambitious at all

Ofcourse the gameplay can be a lot better and with time, it will be, but transition isn't an excuse for not doing better in the league this year. Jose wants to build a dynasty but we shouldn't take a step backwards from last year. It's pretty much the same team, only better now. Oscar, Mata, Hazard have had a year of English football under their belt. Schurrle, Willian were added to challenge them/give depth. Pretty much no other changes and with the same base formation 4-4-1-1 or 4-2-31 whichever it is

this is a team whose manager and executive have been saying that they're aiming the future first, the identity, then the rest. We finished 3rd, 14 points behind, so if we finish 8th only 10 is progress. You're treating this whole deal in such a simple and naive way... it's not just that simple because no matter who the manager is, when there's a change in command it's expected to come struggles with. Look at Pelegrini, Moyes, Ancelotti... If things were as simple as you're implying, football wouldn't be what it is.

We are spoiled, it doesn't mean being spoiled is bad. That's the thing you and Raphael took from my posts. I'm not judging anyone. Anyone can support the team the way they please, I don't care and it doesn't even bother me too much). It's unusual for me to have people being so proud to be right about the bad (and that's coming from someone from a country where managers are exchanged a few times a year in many teams - a few times a year, I'll repeat) and asking for manager heads, but overall, we support our players. I read in so many posts we should get rid of Luiz, Mata, Hazard, Mourinho, Torres, Mikel, Lampard, etc. As if they didn't belong to the club, as if they were so bad (or were so deprived of chances by Mourinho) that they should all leave in January or maybe receive the Malouda treatment. It's a feeling of overreaction, I never said people don't have a right and shouldn't overreact. The only person in all my posts I come nearly to judge was you (but never implied what kind of fan you are, just your opinion about what we're facing here)... Denying we're in transition seems just like that to me, denial, as you said with all words we aren't in transition right now. Being in transition isn't an excuse to the lack of titles, but it's a very natural and valid reason for struggling. Football isn't simple like that.

And said who to rebuild a new thing you don't have to take steps back? Maybe it's possible to do without it, sometimes it isn't. Our so amazing legacy from last year is a EL title we struggled more to win than the UCL title we beat Barcelona and Bayern. So what's so great from Chelsea last year that Mourinho should make sure is kept? If the best managers in world (or any manager) could always handle to just fix what's bad without affecting what's good, their lives would be much easier! Sorry if I think your view of this isn't realistic. The day football is as simple as you're making it out to be I'll lose all interest and will stick with volleyball.

[Sheva. 5,373]

Our team is good enough to win the league, our manager is one of the best around. Transition is an excuse for losers.

[darrus 422]

Oh my god learn what transition actually means.

I guess you should follow your own advice.

Buying players doesn't mean being in transition. If Barcelona or Ajax buys 22 new players they will still be playing the same way and getting some sort of results because the way of playing will stay the same. We don't have this sort of identity so new coach, new system and new players means time for building a team. The same is happening with City and MU this season.

If you think that sticking 15 good players and good coach in the same team means instant automatic results you seriously need a reality check - or just go study recent history of Real Madrid which is a great example of how amazing players and good coaches guarantees you nothing.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Our team is good enough to win the league, our manager is one of the best around. Transition is an excuse for losers.

The thing is the people saying we're in transition are also saying our manager is one of the best around and that our squad is probably good enough to win the league so it's not like these ideas are mutually exclusive.

[Kojo 4,676]

It changed it's philosophy when FFP came in and signing a manager on a 4 year deal. And from the performances, you can tell there is change happening off field.

That makes no sense at all, so FFP has changed everything has it? and Mourinho has?

Last time I checked we have been playing 4-2-3-1 since Di Matteo first came in, and we've playing attacking football since AVB came in, so you're just talking out of your arse hole mate. There is no change, we have gotten better but the philosophy hasn't changed, they have adapted into there own roles, they are more fluid they understand each other more.

That's what happens when you improve, there is in no way at all a transition, absolutely no way.

[Kojo 4,676]

I guess you should follow your own advice.

Buying players doesn't mean being in transition. If Barcelona or Ajax buys 22 new players they will still be playing the same way and getting some sort of results because the way of playing will stay the same. We don't have this sort of identity so new coach, new system and new players means time for building a team. The same is happening with City and MU this season.

If you think that sticking 15 good players and good coach in the same team means instant automatic results you seriously need a reality check - or just go study recent history of Real Madrid which is a great example of how amazing players and good coaches guarantees you nothing.

Read my other post, now there is a reality check.

[borriske 330]

It just seems so illogical to me. We started being a team in transition under AVB when were trying to adapt a totally different style of playing. Problem then was, besides Mata, we didnt have the players then to really implement it. RDM and benitez afterwards were merely stop-gaps, but were buying players according the same philosophy. Now, we do have the players to make it work, but hire a manager who now tries to revert to the old tactics, and unsurprisingly, for now it doesn't work.

[AndersonBLUE 819]

That makes no sense at all, so FFP has changed everything has it? and Mourinho has?

Last time I checked we have been playing 4-2-3-1 since Di Matteo first came in, and we've playing attacking football since AVB came in, so you're just talking out of your arse hole mate. There is no change, we have gotten better but the philosophy hasn't changed, they have adapted into there own roles, they are more fluid they understand each other more.

That's what happens when you improve, there is in no way at all a transition, absolutely no way.

If you really think that the owner just told Mourinho: 'follow what AVB did please' then there really is no point posting. You can tell there is a new system in play as Hazard and Mata are more defensive. Maybe you should watch a couple games and look instead of just being the token forum 'bad ass MF' thing you got going.

[Kojo 4,676]

If you really think that the owner just told Mourinho: 'follow what AVB did please' then there really is no point posting. You can tell there is a new system in play as Hazard and Mata are more defensive. Maybe you should watch a couple games and look instead of just being the token forum 'bad ass MF' thing you got going.

Oh my word, where did i say that?

I said the club has had the philosophy of attacking since AVB came in, they don't want to play counter attacking football anymore, it's been a well known fact that Abramovich wants to play attacking football. Watch the games? You signedu p for this forum at the start of last season, it's obvious to me that you have only just started watching Chelsea recently, otherwise you would have knowledge of the past Chelsea.

And learn what transition means whilst your at it. If we are in transition then so are City too. So is almost every club in the premier league.

[AndersonBLUE 819]

'Watch the games? You signedu p for this forum at the start of last season, it's obvious to me that you have only just started watching Chelsea recently, otherwise you would have knowledge of the past Chelsea.'

Did you really just write that? Just lol. Oh and you need 10,000 posts to qualify for knowing about Chelsea's history, so you're a bit short of the mark mate