Lack of English players in the squad

[LDN Blue 7,903]

But I trust us to fuck it up and not produce any regular first team members out of this crop of talented youngsters.

Do you? I've seen too many come and go to faith faith now smh

I feel like Bamford, RLC, Baker, Brown etc will all end up on a rubbish loan somewhere. Their hype will die down and they'll be swallowed up into the abyss of our failing academy.

..Would loved to be proven wrong.

[lionsden 4,689]

Do you? I've seen too many come and go to faith faith now smh

I feel like Bamford, RLC, Baker, Brown etc will all end up on a rubbish loan somewhere. Their hype will die down and they'll be swallowed up into the abyss of our failing academy.

..Would loved to be proven wrong

You read that wrong. "I trust us TO fuck it up" meaning I have no faith or confidence i our ability to turn any of these youngsters into a proper first team player at Chelsea so We actually agree with each other.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

You read that wrong. "I trust us TO fuck it up". We actually agree with each other.

My mistake

It's such a massive frustration. That's why I simply can't get excited about these young players anymore. It's just unfair to see how good players are and not being nurtured appropriately.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Well when did we sign last english player? Was it Cahill in jan 2012?

Thats 3 years since we brought home player and its terrible.

As much players like Barkley will cost a fortune and might never make it here, we will NEED to buy few of them to fill homegrown quota, but also to have some english blood here. It would be sad not to have any of them even if we win all kind of titles.

While Ox and Sterling look like best among young players, they will never be sold to us.

Then we have Stones who I believe wouldnt get in our team anytime soon. Zouma is already youngster to play here. Barkley or Prowse would add some midfield creativity and would fit bench well, but not much more than that unless they seriously improve. But not sure if its worth 30m for another bench player. Clyne IMO is best choice we can buy atm and would fill well to replace aging Iva. But even Clyne who is good player, will have to step big time to be starter here.

All said, we will have to spend 30m on english player or two, and even if they rot on bench for rest of their career.

[DYC. 7,542]

My mistake

It's such a massive frustration. That's why I simply can't get excited about these young players anymore. It's just unfair to see how good players are and not being nurtured appropriately.

It's the same thing over and over again. A new group of 'highly talented' youngsters are making some kind of impact at youth level, and fans get all excited and predicting those players to make it through. It doesn't happen. And then a new group comes through and fans claim these (some) youngsters will make it. Ask them about the old group and you'll hear 'oh, they weren't good enough'. And so it goes on.

I stopped getting excited after the Bruma, Kakuta etc. generation, and now I honestly don't care anymore. The club would have to make a conscious decision to try to develop first team players through the youth academy. That's clearly not the case. And you need a good bit of luck as well. You can't develop a Marco Van Basten or a Lionel Messi. Or even a player like Seedorf or Schweinsteiger. Ajax are famed for their academy but it's been a while since they've had a top player come through their ranks. Barca had their golden generation, but it's not the same now either. But the difference is, if they do spot a huge talent in the youth , they'll work very hard to make sure that player makes it. Whereas, only a Messi-esque talent has a shot here I think.

Edit: They do develop squad players regularly though. Utd and Arsenal do the same. That's something I'd like to see at Chelsea.

Anyway, I've learned to accept the current situation. If we get to see more situations like with Zouma, that's fine too. Young players growing up at Chelsea and eventually forming a strong bond with the club. The club really needs to work on those death loans though. It's obviously not a effective way of helping youngsters really develop. Neither do they feel a need to make it at Chelsea per se.

[Tomo 21,681]

Nathaniel Clyne is staring us in the face.

Re the youth promotion, last time we tried giving youth a high role in the squad before their time our squad stagnated and we were in a mess for 4 years. Im all for giving youth a chance, but when I hear we should ditch experienced players like Mikel and throw an untested youngster in............

[Tomo 21,681]

It's the same thing over and over again. A new group of 'highly talented' youngsters are making some kind of impact at youth level, and fans get all excited and predicting those players to make it through. It doesn't happen. And then a new group comes through and fans claim these (some) youngsters will make it. Ask them about the old group and you'll hear 'oh, they weren't good enough'. And so it goes on.

I stopped getting excited after the Bruma, Kakuta etc. generation, and now I honestly don't care anymore. The club would have to make a conscious decision to try to develop first team players through the youth academy. That's clearly not the case. And you need a good bit of luck as well. You can't develop a Marco Van Basten or a Lionel Messi. Or even a player like Seedorf or Schweinsteiger. Ajax are famed for their academy but it's been a while since they've had a top player come through their ranks. Barca had their golden generation, but it's not the same now either. But the difference is, if they do spot a huge talent in the youth , they'll work very hard to make sure that player makes it. Whereas, only a Messi-esque talent has a shot here I think.

Edit: They do develop squad players regularly though. Utd and Arsenal do the same. That's something I'd like to see at Chelsea.

Anyway, I've learned to accept the current situation. If we get to see more situations like with Zouma, that's fine too. Young players growing up at Chelsea and eventually forming a strong bond with the club. The club really needs to work on those death loans though. It's obvious not a effective way of helping youngsters really develop. Neither do they feel a need to make it at Chelsea per se.

Bruma was a wreck every time I saw him play, he had a glorious chance at Hamburg to put his name in the hat and spectacularly blew it.

With the loans, Tibo and to an extent Sturridge show that great loans will be rewarded.

[DYC. 7,542]

Bruma was a wreck every time I saw him play, he had a glorious chance at Hamburg to put his name in the hat and spectacularly blew it.

With the loans, Tibo and to an extent Sturridge show that great loans will be rewarded.

There was plenty of hype surrounding Bruma at youth level. Even achieving a little first team football. That was my point. It's always a completely different game when you play with the big boys.

Tibo doesn't count. First choice GK at a club like Atletico as a teenager. Obviously a rare talent. Sturridge did well at Bolton, yeah. But for Sturridge, there are like a hundred players with very disappointing loan spells. And Sturridge was dropped, and eventually let go of course, very quickly after a dip in form, a normal occurrence for any young player. Not a great example of giving young players chances.

[Tomo 21,681]

There was plenty of hype surrounding Bruma at youth level. Even achieving a little first team football. That was my point. It's always a completely different game when you play with the big boys.

Tibo doesn't count. First choice GK at a club like Atletico as a teenager. Obviously a rare talent. Sturridge did well at Bolton, yeah. But for Sturridge, there are like a hundred players with very disappointing loan spells. And Sturridge was dropped, and eventually let go of course, very quickly after a dip in form, a normal occurrence for any young player. Not a great example of giving young players chances.

Yeah but you have to show something, Bruma got a chance against Newcastle and was an absolute train wreck, Nail Ranger and Shola Ameobi terrorised him, he was never going to get a shot after that.

The point about Tibo is he didn't get to where he is by having things laid on a plate, he worked hard and kept it up, when he went to Athletico any spell off dodgy form and Sergio Asenjo was in.

Yeah we let Danny go in the end but his loan at Bolton earned him a higher spot in our squad, he wasn't getting games despite Malouda and Anelka stinking the place out and he came back as a trusted member of the squad. Then he got a move to Liverpool who rumour had it were considering him when Bolton took him but choose against it due to his lack of expierence and instead opted for Carroll.

Loans separate the men from the boys, in my opinion.

[DYC. 7,542]

Yeah but you have to show something, Bruma got a chance against Newcastle and was an absolute train wreck, Nail Ranger and Shola Ameobi terrorised him, he was never going to get a shot after that.

The point about Tibo is he didn't get to where he is by having things laid on a plate, he worked hard and kept it up, when he went to Athletico any spell off dodgy form and Sergio Asenjo was in.

Yeah we let Danny go in the end but his loan at Bolton earned him a higher spot in our squad, he wasn't getting games despite Malouda and Anelka stinking the place out and he came back as a trusted member of the squad. Then he got a move to Liverpool who rumour had it were considering him when Bolton took him but choose against it due to his lack of expierence and instead opted for Carroll.

Loans separate the men from the boys, in my opinion.

Courtois started 37 games in La Liga, 15 games in EL. He was first choice from the go. Again, he was a phenomenal talent. And Sturridge was a missed opportunity. I just hope Zouma doesn't suffer the same fate.

Going out on loan is not the problem. But those constant loans are horrible, especially when it's a new team every year. Even experienced players sometimes need a year, sometimes even two to make an impact.

And if a player goes out on loan and ends up hardly playing, something obviously went very wrong.

[Laylabelle 9,296]

The issue with loans is it seems a case of loan after loan and thats it off they go.Not given the chance to see what they can do with us rather then somewhere else

[lionsden 4,689]

Courtois started 37 games in La Liga, 15 games in EL. He was first choice from the go. Again, he was a phenomenal talent. And Sturridge was a missed opportunity. I just hope Zouma doesn't suffer the same fate.

Going out on loan is not the problem. But those constant loans are horrible, especially when it's a new team every year. Even experienced players sometimes need a year, sometimes even two to make an impact.

And if a player goes out on loan and ends up hardly playing, something obviously went very wrong.

Absolutely hit the nail on the head. this is the crux of the issue.

[Reddish-Blue 2,224]

I don't get the point of constant loans....if a young player isn't going to make it, sell him off like Bruma

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,742]

I don't get the point of constant loans....if a young player isn't going to make it, sell him off like Bruma

One good loan spell vastly increases the selling price of the player. It is all good business.

[LukakutoStamford 779]

As the profile of the PL has increased so has the talent. The PL outside of Bayern, RM and Barca is the prime destination. The problem with English football is mostly at the grassroots level, but the other troubling aspect is that English players don't go to foreign leagues all that often. As I've mentioned before the U21 and the championship league and leagues below are poor places to put prospects. Much better to put a player in Belgian pro league or the Eredivisie to develop than languish in the U21s or the championship. Of course you can just stick players on some scrub team in the top league, but if you sent some top English talents to Anderlecht/PSV/Ajax at say age 12-14 I think we'd see more top English talented developing properly.

Fix the problems at the bottom put a much greater emphasis on choosing a national play style and then put a focus on talent development ahead of winning.

[robsblubot 3,225]

Look, I am far from Mikel's biggest fan. But if rather have him on the bench than a 33yr old Gareth Barry. Henderson is the only English CM that is better than Mikel.

Kane has only looked good for 6months, chill out before saying he's the real deal. Remember all the fuss about Wilshere, Townsend and even Sterling to a certain extent?

It's like Ryan and a few others have said. Whatever way you want to cut it, the quality if English players coming through ATM is horrifically low. And even the ones who could be good enough will be ridiculous transfer fees which in the days of FFP we can't afford.

If you made a realistic combined squad of Chelsea + Any English players then let's be honest it'd look like this:

Courtois, Azpilicueta, JT, Zouma, Luis, Matic, Fabregas, Hazard, Willian, Cuadrado, Costa.

Subs: Cech, Ivanovic, Cahill, Henderson, Sterling, Oscar, Sturridge.

And Henderson, Sterling and Sturridge would all fetch £40M+ price tags on a good day.

I was always a big fan of having English players in our team. But until English players become better (better coaches and PL B teams needed IMO) then I'd much rather have no Englishmen and actually win some trophies than have 4/5 in the starting 11 and become a team like Spurs.

Agree to disagree on mikel. For me there is nothing he does better than Barry and 100 others. Keyword here is 'better' because if the international inst significantly better than the local product then why is he there?

Some of these youngsters will become good players perhaps great like sterling, but to have them you gotta buy them young. And we havent been doing that - doesn't seem important to the club.

[Henrique 9,133]

It's the same thing over and over again. A new group of 'highly talented' youngsters are making some kind of impact at youth level, and fans get all excited and predicting those players to make it through. It doesn't happen. And then a new group comes through and fans claim these (some) youngsters will make it. Ask them about the old group and you'll hear 'oh, they weren't good enough'. And so it goes on.

I stopped getting excited after the Bruma, Kakuta etc. generation, and now I honestly don't care anymore. The club would have to make a conscious decision to try to develop first team players through the youth academy. That's clearly not the case. And you need a good bit of luck as well. You can't develop a Marco Van Basten or a Lionel Messi. Or even a player like Seedorf or Schweinsteiger. Ajax are famed for their academy but it's been a while since they've had a top player come through their ranks. Barca had their golden generation, but it's not the same now either. But the difference is, if they do spot a huge talent in the youth , they'll work very hard to make sure that player makes it. Whereas, only a Messi-esque talent has a shot here I think.

Edit: They do develop squad players regularly though. Utd and Arsenal do the same. That's something I'd like to see at Chelsea.

Anyway, I've learned to accept the current situation. If we get to see more situations like with Zouma, that's fine too. Young players growing up at Chelsea and eventually forming a strong bond with the club. The club really needs to work on those death loans though. It's obviously not a effective way of helping youngsters really develop. Neither do they feel a need to make it at Chelsea per se.

Kakuta reminds me of years ago when I joined this forum. I was saying we should go and get Neymar, and people were saying Lukaku and Kakuta were better players.

Its shocking to realize that Kakuta still is 23, it feels like he is 35. The few matches he started were terrible, easily the 2nd worst players I have ever seen playing for Chelsea since I started watching games more than 10 years ago (the worst was Lukaku, by far).