Cesc Fàbregas

[DH1988 1,275]

Barca goals were different from arsenal goals in fairness but I do feel the whole team is guilty of not having a pop especially with deflections, goalkeeping errors and the dodgy flight the balls can take.

04/05 season galore.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

In games like this he should take more responsibility and take the shot on. I remember at Arsenal and Barca he scored at least 10-15 goals per season. Why can't he do this for us?

After 2009, he played higher up the pitch all the time for Arsenal. That's when he started scoring goals. When he played a deep-lying playmaker like he does for us, he barely scored any goals for Arsenal too - only assisted a lot.

He plays #10 for us only occasionally. He scored against Stoke just the previous match he played #10. As long as he plays in the pivot most of the time, don't expect him to score many goals for us.

[Eidur the Spider 4,515]

The man is an absolute joy to watch and that post-match interview impressed me even more (which I didn't think was possible). He's all about the team. Cesc is ours for many years to come and I'm fecking delighted. Wizard of a footballer.

[Barbara 15,149]

With Fabregas playing as well as he does in the number 10 role, we should consider going for another player to partner Matic, maybe a Pogba or someone. He just offers so much more creativity, nimbleness and guile than Oscar in that role, especially away from home. He also loses the ball much less. If we can't get Pogba then maybe a cheaper option.

Definitely. I'm starting to agree with all you guys. We need one more signing.

Whether it's a Cesc alike to replace him in the pivot without compromising how we offensively dominate games and dictate rhythm when Cesc is there or we sign someone to the RW.

We're falling short because whereas Cesc is amazing, unbelievable and incredible versatile, he can still only play one position at a time. Some times today I saw Mikel playing higher than Matic and I wanted to slam my head on the wall.

If we have a better AM - a more creative one - Oscar and Willian can rotate the remaining position according to the profile of the match. Oscar should play home games because he links up better with Cesc and Hazard than Willian can even dream of. Willian for some of the away games and definitely in the bigger matches.

If this player doesn't come, and we have to move Cesc to #10 then we need another someone years light better than Mikel to play alongside Matic.

I feel if Ramires was fit we'd be playing him in the pivot and I suppose it'd be better. Whereas he's way more wasteful than Mikel, he has 2-3 insights of good things in the whole match. It takes Mikel 50 matches approximately to come up with one good insight in the attack. I'm far from being Ramires' biggest fan, but I admitted then and I state in present time based on how he started the season - back then he was better than anyone among Willian, Mikel, Schurrle and who else we might think about playing in the RW or alongside Matic. Hopefully he'll recover fully soon and will carry on from where he's stopped. The problem is, when Ramires is in bad form, he's even worse than Mikel.

[Hybrid Angel 2,130]

Captain material this guy.

[Hybrid Angel 2,130]

What I liked about his interview was that he spoke like a proper leader. One example is how he reponded when the interviewer asked him about the reaction: "I liked the reaction. I'm happy with the players." If someone like Cahill was here, with no disrespect to Gary, I assume he would have replied by saying, "We reacted very well."

These little things can you the differences in true leaders. I also loved when he said he doesn't care about assists and he just wants Chelsea to win.

I didn't like him when he first joined, but every day I love him more and more. Great attitude, positive, and upbeat.

And one last thing, the man has got charisma in him.

[Strike 7,218]

With Fabregas playing as well as he does in the number 10 role, we should consider going for another player to partner Matic, maybe a Pogba or someone. He just offers so much more creativity, nimbleness and guile than Oscar in that role, especially away from home. He also loses the ball much less. If we can't get Pogba then maybe a cheaper option.

I think this is the difference this year. Fabregas keeps everything ticking

and i agree with getting a midfielder in. personally, i would get Schneiderlin or someone similar - a regulator in midfield. Would have been useful in matches like yesterday

[Special Juan 27,429]

I was talking about him being buy of the summer, at this rate buy of the decade.

[Shakez 755]

I was talking about him being buy of the summer, at this rate buy of the decade.

I agree. The only thing i dread is the fear of him slumping post-january, though i doubt it.

[DH1988 1,275]

What a player.

That interview, sealed it. Blue.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

The real test awaits now. He always had gone down in second half of season, hopefuly he keeps the form through whole year.

[!Hazard! 3,394]

We got the best playmaker on the planet for the price of Fellaini. Insane deal.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

What I liked about his interview was that he spoke like a proper leader. One example is how he reponded when the interviewer asked him about the reaction: "I liked the reaction. I'm happy with the players." If someone like Cahill was here, with no disrespect to Gary, I assume he would have replied by saying, "We reacted very well."

These little things can you the differences in true leaders. I also loved when he said he doesn't care about assists and he just wants Chelsea to win.

I didn't like him when he first joined, but every day I love him more and more. Great attitude, positive, and upbeat.

And one last thing, the man has got charisma in him.

Great point. He is a natural leader and though the imagined captaincy hierarchy goes down to Terry - Cech - Drogba, I think he should be instated as VC from next season onwards.

[Stats 7,056]

He had some great games for Arsenal against Tottenham. Hope that can continue on Thursday.

[Barbara 15,149]

Oh I'm so infatuated with the guy - that goes without saying. And when I say those things is strictly football wise. What's there not to love about this player? The contribution, the passion he shows, he gives his everything, the way he speaks, behaves. He's perfect for us (and would have been for any other team in the world that isn't tiki-taka BS-based. Hello, Arsene).

13 assists in 19 matches is absolutely insane, absolutely insane. He could definitely have 3-4 more because I remember players missing some sitters or clear cut chances created by him. He's not the best signing since I'm a fan because there's a certain guy named Eden Hazard - who I think will the best player to have ever worn a Chelsea shirt when he's on his peak, but if we talk about immediate impact, about fitting like a glove, about being what we need the most, than he is the best signing we've done in the last 13 years. Hazard already is amazing, but I think he's nowhere close to what he can give us, so he'd always be a very good signing in the short term and an immense signing in the long term.

And that's the crazy thing about Cesc... I also believe the best is yet to come. Of course he doesn't have a very high ceiling, but I believe he has two different ceilings at the moment. One, technically and tactically - I believe he can and will still improve as a player. He's at the best form of his career imo, but when you compare his last season with Barça and even with us, you see improvement. So it feels like he's still improving, it feels like he has reached that place of stability at the top, when the guy constantly play well, but you feel like he's not improving anymore. Also, he's under one of the best managers in the world in terms of developing senior players. a lot is said about Mourinho's limitations developing youth, but there's no denying he improves a lot first team players - especially tactically.

Another ceiling he has is chemistry wise. The linkup play between him and Oscar has been growing (and fast if you ask me). This understanding between them still has a long way to go, they've been playing together for only five months now and I have no doubts it'll get much, much better. As important as a player being at the top of his technical and tactical abilities is having a perfect understanding with his peers.

Now onto the myth that he doesn't perform in the second half of the season. Supposing it comes to life, who cares? This guy already influenced directly 12 of our matches so far. If he doesn't influence another one, this is already 1/3 of the league. That's more than we could 'demand'. He already has 13 assists - which is the same amount as the top assister last season. This is already a season long contribution, so even if he doesn't impact directly any other game until the end of the season, he'll deserve some credit if we win the league. It doesn't matter if it's concentrated, spread out, the beginning, the middle or the end of the season.

That said, I'd love for him to break Henry's record - because he deserves it. According to the official site (through the fantasy data) as well as ESPN, he had 20 assists in the league in the 2007/08 season, although people always only mention Henry. Maybe there's an assist that others don't consider? Or it considers penalties drawn? Either way, I'd love for him to have at least 21, but that has nothing to do with him HAVING to keep it up. If he keeps it up, it'll be great, but I'd say he's already done a lot to deserve all credit for the title if we win it. Oh and btw, in the same season, he had 10 assists from Aug-Dec and 10 assists from Jan-May. Just sayin'.

[FabHazard 655]

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Oh I'm so infatuated with the guy - that goes without saying. And when I say those things is strictly football wise. What's there not to love about this player? The contribution, the passion he shows, he gives his everything, the way he speaks, behaves. He's perfect for us (and would have been for any other team in the world that isn't tiki-taka BS-based. Hello, Arsene).

13 assists in 19 matches is absolutely insane, absolutely insane. He could definitely have 3-4 more because I remember players missing some sitters or clear cut chances created by him. He's not the best signing since I'm a fan because there's a certain guy named Eden Hazard - who I think will the best player to have ever worn a Chelsea shirt when he's on his peak, but if we talk about immediate impact, about fitting like a glove, about being what we need the most, than he is the best signing we've done in the last 13 years. Hazard already is amazing, but I think he's nowhere close to what he can give us, so he'd always be a very good signing in the short term and an immense signing in the long term.

And that's the crazy thing about Cesc... I also believe the best is yet to come. Of course he doesn't have a very high ceiling, but I believe he has two different ceilings at the moment. One, technically and tactically - I believe he can and will still improve as a player. He's at the best form of his career imo, but when you compare his last season with Barça and even with us, you see improvement. So it feels like he's still improving, it feels like he has reached that place of stability at the top, when the guy constantly play well, but you feel like he's not improving anymore. Also, he's under one of the best managers in the world in terms of developing senior players. a lot is said about Mourinho's limitations developing youth, but there's no denying he improves a lot first team players - especially tactically.

Another ceiling he has is chemistry wise. The linkup play between him and Oscar has been growing (and fast if you ask me). This understanding between them still has a long way to go, they've been playing together for only five months now and I have no doubts it'll get much, much better. As important as a player being at the top of his technical and tactical abilities is having a perfect understanding with his peers.

Now onto the myth that he doesn't perform in the second half of the season. Supposing it comes to life, who cares? This guy already influenced directly 12 of our matches so far. If he doesn't influence another one, this is already 1/3 of the league. That's more than we could 'demand'. He already has 13 assists - which is the same amount as the top assister last season. This is already a season long contribution, so even if he doesn't impact directly any other game until the end of the season, he'll deserve some credit if we win the league. It doesn't matter if it's concentrated, spread out, the beginning, the middle or the end of the season.

That said, I'd love for him to break Henry's record - because he deserves it. According to the official site (through the fantasy data) as well as ESPN, he had 20 assists in the league in the 2007/08 season, although people always only mention Henry. Maybe there's an assist that others don't consider? Or it considers penalties drawn? Either way, I'd love for him to have at least 21, but that has nothing to do with him HAVING to keep it up. If he keeps it up, it'll be great, but I'd say he's already done a lot to deserve all credit for the title if we win it. Oh and btw, in the same season, he had 10 assists from Aug-Dec and 10 assists from Jan-May. Just sayin'.

You realy changed opinion on this guy

Not just how you look at him then and now, but also his history. Before he was officialy ours, you said that he isnt good enough to play here, that he dipps in form, that he isnt big game player etc. Now you say that all that was because he was playing in wrong system.

Oh them girls

---

I disliked him too before as a person, not realy as player (I was realy hoping we will buy him before he joined barca). And now I like him as person too. But thing is, let wait before making too big opinions on specific players. I have my reservations on him, first I want him to play at least full season here, see what we achieve and what role he plays in it. Then I will wank on him etc. He is in good form, but to say he is best transfer ever is funny IMO. Atm I rate Drogba, Lamps etc much better transfers for sheer fact of their influence in us winning stuff. ATM Cesc won nothing with us yet and I will start with this jumping on bandwagon then.

I know if someone performs fantastic, your expectations grow in sky. And the bigger expectations, the bigger dissapointment. So lets just wait how he does in longer run first.

[Barbara 15,149]

You realy changed opinion on this guy

Not just how you look at him then and now, but also his history. Before he was officialy ours, you said that he isnt good enough to play here, that he dipps in form, that he isnt big game player etc. Now you say that all that was because he was playing in wrong system.

Oh them girls

---

I disliked him too before as a person, not realy as player (I was realy hoping we will buy him before he joined barca). And now I like him as person too. But thing is, let wait before making too big opinions on specific players. I have my reservations on him, first I want him to play at least full season here, see what we achieve and what role he plays in it. Then I will wank on him etc. He is in good form, but to say he is best transfer ever is funny IMO. Atm I rate Drogba, Lamps etc much better transfers for sheer fact of their influence in us winning stuff. ATM Cesc won nothing with us yet and I will start with this jumping on bandwagon then.

I know if someone performs fantastic, your expectations grow in sky. And the bigger expectations, the bigger dissapointment. So lets just wait how he does in longer run first.

I think you're very much confused about my instances on Cesc...

I used to hate Cesc Fabregas as a football player (which has nothing to do with his qualities as a player) and I admitted as much when the rumors started (I just linked a few of my posts in the Willian thread a couple of days ago). I never forgave him for the things he did to our players (Lamps and Michael especially) and I hated how he was always saying shit about Mourinho and us. I hated him simply because I thought he was a cunt. I didn't rate him as high as some people did around here, the same way I didn't rate Diego Costa. I admit being wrong on my perception of their quality more than once.

Now, I've always said he was never suited for Barcelona. ALWAYS, since day one because even a blind could see that. He was played out of position, he had to be kept at the shadow of Iniesta and Xavi and although he has a big range of passing, he is way too direct for that style of play. In my first non-hateful post in the speculation thread (that I linked in the Willian thread on the weekend) I summarize how I felt about the situation and I mentioned that he's better suited for #8, not #10, that he wasn't suited for Barcelona and that he was definitely improvement from what we had. I even defended he wasn't as bad defending as some were claiming.

So I think you probably read my post on the Willian thread and jumped to conclusions wrongly... All my posts pre-love and post-love are along the same lines. I still believe he's a better #8 than #10, I still believe he isn't suited for tiki taka, I still believe Barcelona's managers were stupid and while I haven't forgiven him for what he's done in the past against our players, club and manager, I decided to use selective memory and simply forget about those episodes.

And I made my point very clear - and you seem to have misunderstood that too - I said he was the best immediate impact signing we've done in 13 years. I don't see any other player that has impacted our play and completely changed us from day one as he had. It took him one bloody month to adapt (remember when he was struggling to partner with Matic and offer us defensive stability in the pivot). Few players impacted us as fast as he had, but imo, none to the extent he had.

edit: and I could even say that I love him now, despite being a cunt, because he's our cunt. But that's the thing about Cesc. It seems like he calmed down, he matured in the last couple of years. He isn't the cunt he used to be. He isn't attacking players, managers, clubs like he did inside and off the pitch. I think coming to work with Mourinho taught him a life lesson. It was probably very awkward for him in the first days, he probably realized that he should respect everyone and keep his opinions to himself so he doesn't find himself in that position again - to work and recognize the quality of people he used to badmouth. Mourinho is no saint and provoked a lot (still does, but much less lately than back then). So I feel like he grew with this experience and now he's showing only the passion, which is good. But I would love him the same if he was still the same cunt he used to be, because he'd be our cunt

edit2: realized I linked all different posts in the Willian thread, although they're all in the same page in the Cesc's speculation thread.

The only bit I think I'd rephrase differently is that he isn't a #10. I mean, he can play as a #10, I've been saying as much since the beginning too, but what I meant in this initial post was that if we signed him it would be for play as a #8 (or #7 as Mourinho called, lol) because that was and is imo his genuine position and how Mourinho saw him. He wasn't signing a #10, he was signing a #8.

so here it is

I'll kill Jose myself if we switch to a 4-3-3 and he doesn't play Oscar as the third mildfielder... kidding about the killing part, but I'd be pissed. That's his best position currently imo.

Oscar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ramires

******************************************************************************************************************

things I read in those odd 20 pages I've just read (post by post) and my take on them

1) Cesc and nobody is replacing Lamps. Lamps as a Blue is not replaceable, as a midfielder Cesc isn't the kind of player to replace him either. different kind of #8s imo

2) Cesc is a #8, not #10 and definitely not a false 9, no matter who decided to play him there. Barcelona have been a mess since the last Pep season there. They've got 3 managers in the last two seasons and it's a transition moment for them as their key players started the descending years of their careers (Puyol, Iniesta, Xavi) in addition to Messi having more physical issues in the last two seasons than usual

3) Cesc isn't as bad defending as some of you make him out to be

4) Cesc is even less amazing as most of you make him out to be. A good player and although as I stated I hate him, but I can recognize his qualities. I wish we had someone like Modric instead (even though Mou underused Luka in RM and he played much better at Spurs and under Carlo than under Mourinho).

Now I think there are some important information some seem to have overlooked or forgot based on what Mourinho said early in the season from July-November.

He was signed to make us one of the best teams in the world, with an offensive style. Some may argue that he's the wrong man for the job, but his second season at RM had one of the most successfully offensive and dangerous teams I've watched. He can do it, he just won't sacrifice his defensive solidness for that. He needs and will always pursue a solid defense so he can afford having a more offensive team. I'm not saying he's absolutely the right guy for the job, but dismissing his offensive capabilities, tactics and systems and labeling him as a defensive guy is something worth of our rivals fans and his haters. He's made mistakes, but I think he can see them and I believe he can get the right team for what he wants next.

Why am I talking about it? Because I don't think we need two overly defensive pivot players (such as Ramires and Matic or Mikel or whoever more you want to add here) for 75% of the matches we play. We can work with Matic and a B2B ahead of him just fine. I think Ramires is a B2B, as much as Lamps and Cesc also are although the three of them have completely different qualities and styles. Oscar offers a lot of support to our pressing midfield and if we move to a 4-3-3 (my biggest prayer for next season, right after a reliable striker) he can offer even more, while also supporting the attack. I can see us playing 4-3-3 against stronger sides with Matic-Ramires-Oscar and all other matches (about 75% of them) either with a 4-2-3-1 with Matic-Cesc or even the same 4-3-3 except with an inverted triangle of Matic with Oscar and Cesc ahead of them.

So I don't expect Mourinho to sign another Matic-like player to play by his side (also he already has a defensive guy on Ramires, to a lesser degree). I expect someone like Modric or Lamps (would rather a Modric), but how many of those are really available?

I can't stand Cesc, I don't think he's that great, but he is definitely major improvement from what we have in the pivot currently. And no, I don't think he offers Oscar, Hazard or Willian any competition for the #10 and Mourinho doesn't play false 9, especially with a real 9 coming for sure - thanks God for that.