🇪🇸 Cesc Fàbregas

[mikeholiday 209]

I just saw this at WAGNH

Ramires:The main reason for our problems?I think so

By KingdomofEden on Apr 12, 2015, 9:28a 2 2 Flag

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Signing Fabregas heralded a new era for Chelsea.It was a sign of intent from Mourinho,that we would no longer be the team that relied largely on fast counter attacks.It signaled that not only will we use counter attacks,but we would also seek to control the game with posession.

Were we succesful?For large parts we were.When we had Matic at full fitness(not tired),Oscar at full fitness and Fabregas at full fitness,we almost always succeeded with this game plan.

In the first half of the season,there were only around 2-3 games where we faced problems with this approach post Man City/Swansea games.This was when someone like Fellaini would begin marking Fabregas. Fabregas being inexperienced in the pivot would be unsure about how to deal with it.The only other instance was when Matic was absent against Newcastle.

However cracks began to appear early Jan,when we lost to Spurs.In that game one could clearly see that the players were tired after an intense schedule and simply incapable of carrying out the high pressing approach they normally do with success.

Things changed for the first time,after the Liverpool game.In the first leg we didn't use Oscar(who has linked very well with Fabregas and Matic).We placed Mikel,and the failure to purposefully threaten was expected.

In the second leg,Liverpool consumed all their energy in the first 50 minutes,and somehow we couldn't deal with it. Ramires was introduced,we played better.People were initially glad at the arrival of Ramires.Cesc Fabregas got injured and missed some matches.We were unable to control matches like we used to.And people were clamouring for Fabregas' return.

Return he did.But this time,he did not have Oscar for company like he used to.Instead he had Ramires,a player he does not gel with at all,Matic suffered his moment of madness against Burnley and things became worse.

Matic returned against Psg. But again we had Ramires involved. So the problems were-

1)Matic returning a bit jaded

2)Ramires,who is simply not suited to posession play like Oscar and Willian are.

Result we conceded the control of the match to a 10 man PSG.My question to WAGNHERS is:How many times has Ramires played and we actually controlled the match?I dont remember any.People say that Cesc has suffered a dip,but I feel him being paired with Ramires is the reason for the same.

You may say,that I am exaggerating.But today against QPR you could see the proof again.Oscar was brought on and we immediately looked better and more fluid.Many people are saying Cesc has suffered second half of the season dip.Has he?He never had Oscar and Matic in full fitness for company.To top it all,Costa also also looked a bit jaded in recent matches. Cesc's so called drop in form is not an accident.It is a direct consequence of these two factors.

1)Being paired with Ramires

2)Costa being a bit jaded since his ban

What do you think?Please feel free to comment.How do you think we should go about the transfer window?

I don't buy it personally. I remember Chelsea V Swansea early in the season. John Terry own goal in the first half. Costa equalises just before the break.

Halftime Rami on for Shirley. Changed the match. Costa gets his hattrick one of which was assisted by Rami.

Chelsea v Soton. Rami on for Matic in the second half. Mourinho himself said that that stopped Soton's counters.

Teams just seem to really shape up their defense really well against us since the turn of the year. But then again, i only watch Chelsea games and top4 sides' matches... Conclusion: I don't think Rami is shit. He's just a different player who offers something else.

[Special Juan 28,141]

Like already said, he wasn't great but he was the match winner.......That will do me.

[Blue Armour 4,448]

I just saw this at WAGNH

Ramires:The main reason for our problems?I think so

By KingdomofEden on Apr 12, 2015, 9:28a 2 2 Flag

 TWEET SHARE

Signing Fabregas heralded a new era for Chelsea.It was a sign of intent from Mourinho,that we would no longer be the team that relied largely on fast counter attacks.It signaled that not only will we use counter attacks,but we would also seek to control the game with posession.

Were we succesful?For large parts we were.When we had Matic at full fitness(not tired),Oscar at full fitness and Fabregas at full fitness,we almost always succeeded with this game plan.

In the first half of the season,there were only around 2-3 games where we faced problems with this approach post Man City/Swansea games.This was when someone like Fellaini would begin marking Fabregas. Fabregas being inexperienced in the pivot would be unsure about how to deal with it.The only other instance was when Matic was absent against Newcastle.

However cracks began to appear early Jan,when we lost to Spurs.In that game one could clearly see that the players were tired after an intense schedule and simply incapable of carrying out the high pressing approach they normally do with success.

Things changed for the first time,after the Liverpool game.In the first leg we didn't use Oscar(who has linked very well with Fabregas and Matic).We placed Mikel,and the failure to purposefully threaten was expected.

In the second leg,Liverpool consumed all their energy in the first 50 minutes,and somehow we couldn't deal with it. Ramires was introduced,we played better.People were initially glad at the arrival of Ramires.Cesc Fabregas got injured and missed some matches.We were unable to control matches like we used to.And people were clamouring for Fabregas' return.

Return he did.But this time,he did not have Oscar for company like he used to.Instead he had Ramires,a player he does not gel with at all,Matic suffered his moment of madness against Burnley and things became worse.

Matic returned against Psg. But again we had Ramires involved. So the problems were-

1)Matic returning a bit jaded

2)Ramires,who is simply not suited to posession play like Oscar and Willian are.

Result we conceded the control of the match to a 10 man PSG.My question to WAGNHERS is:How many times has Ramires played and we actually controlled the match?I dont remember any.People say that Cesc has suffered a dip,but I feel him being paired with Ramires is the reason for the same.

You may say,that I am exaggerating.But today against QPR you could see the proof again.Oscar was brought on and we immediately looked better and more fluid.Many people are saying Cesc has suffered second half of the season dip.Has he?He never had Oscar and Matic in full fitness for company.To top it all,Costa also also looked a bit jaded in recent matches. Cesc's so called drop in form is not an accident.It is a direct consequence of these two factors.

1)Being paired with Ramires

2)Costa being a bit jaded since his ban

What do you think?Please feel free to comment.How do you think we should go about the transfer window?

What problems? Ramires barely plays these days. He happens to start one match and now he's the source of problems....Don't quite understand what the author is trying to prove, unless he's talking about the QPR match alone.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

What problems? Ramires barely plays these days. He happens to start one match and now he's the source of problems....Don't quite understand what the author is trying to prove, unless he's talking about the QPR match alone.

While many of us see us overplaying our starters as the reason for our poor form due to fatigue, he says disrupting the usual Matic-fabregas-oscar combination made Fabregas's and our performance worse

[nadavTKL 1,787]

While many of us see us overplaying our starters as the reason for our poor form due to fatigue, he says disrupting the usual Matic-fabregas-oscar combination made Fabregas's and our performance worse

Well.... isnt that obvious that our main problem is to keep possesion? and its also clear we dont have any descent replacements for Matic-Cesc-Oscar-Willian-Hazard. Mikel, Ramires, Cuadrado, all three arent suited for possesion football, so naturally they're disrupting our game when they play. So Jose had to play the 5 i mentioned again and again in some periods during the season (the best periods) because other players doesnt fit, it wouldnt be the same with them.

But, than Oscar started to play badly, to be inconsistent, so we saw Ramires more and more. And another thing is that Mourinho doesnt trust this five, Matic-Cesc-Oscar-Willian-Hazard, in a lot of situations, mainly in big away games but not just those. So again, enter Ramires instead of Oscar/Willian and again the possesion game goes to hell. Why he doesnt trust them? i think the problem is Oscar. Oscar is a technically gifted player compare to Cuadrado or Schurlle, but not technically gifted enough to play in a crowded central midfield. He loses possesion too much and cant help Cesc when we play against top teams who presses our midfield, he cant take some of the responsibilities of Cesc when the opponent press Cesc hard. Teams know Cesc is our playmaker and our only one. Thats why we need someone else to play next to Cesc, not Oscar, someone who's good as Cesc on the ball, like Koke, Gundogan or Pogba.

Again about Ramires, when Mou playes him vs a proper team, Mou basically gives up on possesion. He basically says: "Ok, i cant control the ball with Oscar-Cesc, Oscar wont help me, so i'll drop Oscar and get Ramires in, that way we'll at least defend better. We wont have the ball a lot, but that would have been the same case with Oscar anyway... i sink".

[Oscar 441]

Cesc not making the shortlist is outrageous. He is also the new signing of the year over Sanchez.

[Jase 43,479]

And no word about his performance yesterday, especially in helping to set up the goal while being put under pressure?

[Barbara 15,149]

And no word about his performance yesterday, especially in helping to set up the goal while being put under pressure?

shhh.... we can't let the myth die that he can't perform in big matches or second halves. Why are you trying to sneak a doubt in such well cemented convictions?

I think he's heading to his best form again. Yesterday was a step down the last couple of matches imo, but the body gets tired over time and the preciseness of the pass, what his brain tells his feet to execute isn't as it used to be anymore at this point. He isn't a dribbler, he's a passer (I still laugh when I remember @Styles tried to convince us over and over again Cesc is an average passer, LOL - which fits just well with most of his views anyway), his vision is incredible and he sees a pass and a play seconds before the ball even reaches him, but for him to execute that pass with the precision he did early in the season his body has to be as sharp as possible. It happens to any player with this set of skills. I think what put a damper on him was the Terry injury in January. But you can see he's getting back to his usual the last month or so.

Also as the COC goal was finally given to Costa, it means the assist is now Cesc's, right? and what an assist that was

I can't wait for him to do some magic next weekend - and God, I think I want it more than anything else at this point. Let's just push the dagger deeper in the arse's little hearts.

[Styles 9,790]

shhh.... we can't let the myth die that he can't perform in big matches or second halves. Why are you trying to sneak a doubt in such well cemented convictions?

I think he's heading to his best form again. Yesterday was a step down the last couple of matches imo, but the body gets tired over time and the preciseness of the pass, what his brain tells his feet to execute isn't as it used to be anymore at this point. He isn't a dribbler, he's a passer (I still laugh when I remember @Styles tried to convince us over and over again Cesc is an average passer, LOL - which fits just well with most of his views anyway), his vision is incredible and he sees a pass and a play seconds before the ball even reaches him, but for him to execute that pass with the precision he did early in the season his body has to be as sharp as possible. It happens to any player with this set of skills. I think what put a damper on him was the Terry injury in January. But you can see he's getting back to his usual the last month or so.

Also as the COC goal was finally given to Costa, it means the assist is now Cesc's, right? and what an assist that was

I can't wait for him to do some magic next weekend - and God, I think I want it more than anything else at this point. Let's just push the dagger deeper in the arse's little hearts.

Find the quotes; let's provide some context. Otherwise please stop chatting shit.

[didierforever 7,349]

shhh.... we can't let the myth die that he can't perform in big matches or second halves. Why are you trying to sneak a doubt in such well cemented convictions?

come on barbara. u just cant say that the cesc drops in the second half of the season is a "myth".

dont exactly know if he has physically fallen off or something else, but no one can deny that he has looked like a shade of the 2014 cesc a lot of times in these previous months.

[Barbara 15,149]

come on barbara. u just cant say that the cesc drops in the second half of the season is a "myth".

dont exactly know if he has physically fallen off or something else, but no one can deny that he has looked like a shade of the 2014 cesc a lot of times in these previous months.

he does - but isn't there a context? Wasn't he injured? Didn't he stay some time in the sidelines and have ever since slowing walking toward his best? I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm just questioning this is a sacred rule that rinses and repeats every new season.

People stopped bringing up the 'don't play big matches' because he's played well in some of the big matches we played this year... the same will happen if he has a healthy second half of season. The thing is many times he doesn't. I thought he'd have here this season because he said we 'fixed' his long-term injury and played without pain for the first time in years. I didn't count with one of our own players injuring him (and Remy, lol), but of course, that's a risk any player is subjected to.

I'm not denying what happened, I'm denying the rule and the fact people don't analyze the context.

[Barbara 15,149]

Find the quotes; let's provide some context. Otherwise please stop chatting shit.

Not a big fan of this transfer but good luck to him.

Much better than Paulinho, so there's that I suppose.

He's balding, he doesn't really have much choice.

Agreed. Hopefully Van Ginkel gets some minutes too.

A Matic-Fabregas midfield isn't going to work in my opinion.

Thought he looked a little bit like Mata yesterday, very slow and weak off the ball.

I know you guys are bored of me saying this already but Fabregas is ridiculously slow, I've seen fat people running for the bus move quicker than him. And while he's excellent at making through balls his general passing really isn't that good.

His general passing isn't that good?

I think you're overestimating his slowness and I don't think you've watched Cesc Fàbregas enough (and I don't mean this in a patronizing or derogative way) if you say he isn't a general good passer... I'm surprised to read that...

I agree completely with Mourinho. He's the key we were missing in our puzzle (it's easy to talk about striker, because we played with only one last season - and that's summing all three we had together, meaning we had half of one with Samuel and a quarter of one with either Torres or Ba). He takes us to a new level. People label Mourinho as defensive all the time, but a team to afford, need and want a player of Cesc's caliber isn't a team defensive oriented. It's a team willing to take risks, to want to bring it to the next level. His speed on the ball and off the ball isn't that much important when we have a high press system that proved to work really well and players that can offer him cover. We have pace-y players to make runs to receive his balls, so he isn't missed there either. We missed a brain when we had a lot of muscles and a tad of geniality with Hazard, but Cesc is definitely the brain we've missed. We lost that with Mata and Mata didn't do it the way Cesc does (not better, not worse, just differently, although Cesc is way more versatile than Mata). Hazard can have his fun moments of a genius more freely now, there's someone behind him doing all the thinking. Schurrle can hopefully run and move smartly because there's someone to catch him. Oscar can share the burden of being creative (as it isn't natural to him) with someone else. (and for God's sake, I'm not even remotely implying Eden or any of our other AMs don't think, they do, it's just Cesc is a brilliant, fast mind that sees the whole story in his head in seconds, before executing it).

So he can make excellent through balls but can't do simple passes... Hmm.

His general passing is more than fine. Some mistakes, sloppy and misplaced passes are to be expected when he expects his teammates do different things, since we play completely differently from Barcelona or even Arsenal.

He is pretty slow, you're right, but everyone has known it for ages, so I'm not sure why you bring it up. I doubt Jose failed to notice that he isn't a speed monster before signing him.

His general passing isn't that good?! Wow, just wow. I can't even...

He is slow, his general passing isn't that good and his dribbling, whilst not bad, isn't spectacular either. I'm thinking we may just have spent 30m on a slightly improved Mikel, silly board. If not his passing, what does he offer then?

OK, not another peep out of me on Fabregas. We will revist this again in a few months/end of the season. I hope he proves me wrong.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Is 8 months enough time to revisit it? btw your last answer were to mine and other posts I quoted along. Yep, definitely the context.

You were wrong even about his haircut. Just admit your own words, man. Everyone has a chance of being wrong about their opinions, even more their predictions. At least you said you hoped he proved you wrong. He did just that

[Laugh1ngMan 393]

The problem for Cesc is the lack of runners. he needs people to move when he has the ball but only our striker does this and it doesnt pose great danger anymore, hence he stopped being as influential as the first half of the season.

Early in the season we had at least Schurlle to help out and i can even remember Hazard started doing some off the ball movement, which was lacking in his game and i aplauded him for it.

But all that has come to a stop for some reason or another. Especially in games where we are being pressed since our passing is so bad our AM's have to drop so deep to help out, that in turn Cesc hardly ever has someone to pick out.

I remember him trying a couple of through passes against QPR for Drogba but that wasn't working for obvious reasons.

I was hoping Cuadrado could at least give us that, and he has shown some of that movement but his all round game has been too suspicious too give him playing time at these crucial moments.

[Styles 9,790]

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Is 8 months enough time to revisit it? btw your last answer were to mine and other posts I quoted along. Yep, definitely the context.

You were wrong even about his haircut. Just admit your own words, man. Everyone has a chance of being wrong about their opinions, even more their predictions. At least you said you hoped he proved you wrong. He did just that

I've only now just realised what an incredibly sad individual you are, but let's entertain this.

First of all I don't understand what the first four or so quotes have to do with his passing, and especially the balding comment but whatever.

Now the reason I asked for quotes is because this:

I know you guys are bored of me saying this already but Fabregas is ridiculously slow, I've seen fat people running for the bus move quicker than him. And while he's excellent at making through balls his general passing really isn't that good.

Does not equal average passer.

Here's some context: in the very same quote, which I believe is supposed to be the smoking gun, I said he is excellent at making through-balls. That's clearly not the trait of an average passer.

Fabregas, however, can be incredibly sloppy in possession at times which is what I was attempting to put across in that post. Fabregas has just come off a period of form where he gave the ball away cheaply a lot in games. I still stand by that comment that his general passing, especially when pressurised, leaves a lot to be desired.

So, me trying to convince people 'over and over' again that Fabregas is an 'average passer' has amounted to one actual post taken out of context and a few others that have nothing to do with anything. Pathetic.

[Barbara 15,149]

I've only now just realised what an incredibly sad individual you are, but let's entertain this.

First of all I don't understand what the first four or so quotes have to do with his passing, and especially the balding comment but whatever.

Now the reason I asked for quotes is because this:

Does not equal average passer.

Here's some context: in the very same quote, which I believe is supposed to be the smoking gun, I said he is excellent at making through-balls. That's clearly not the trait of an average passer.

Fabregas, however, can be incredibly sloppy in possession at times which is what I was attempting to put across in that post. Fabregas has just come off a period of form where he gave the ball away cheaply a lot in games. I still stand by that comment that his general passing, especially when pressurised, leaves a lot to be desired.

So, me trying to convince people 'over and over' again that Fabregas is an 'average passer' has amounted to one actual post taken out of context and a few others that have nothing to do with anything. Pathetic.

I had fun doing it... and you gave me exactly the kind of response I expected. My biggest fun? I didn't remember in your posts you said we should revisit it in a few months or at the end of the season. PRI.CE.LESS.

You said his general passing isn't really good. If you want to say that isn't the same as saying average passer okay... It's semantics really. Average is something that isn't good or bad, just a 5 or 6. People called you on that, but back then when no one could be proved right or wrong about his career at Chelsea, you didn't try to correct anyone saying it was absurd for you to say he was good at something so difficult and not good in something so simple as passing in general. Back then you didn't try to make your post look like you weren't degrading his general pass, you stood by your own words and even challenged us to revisit the topic a few months later or at the end of the season. Now that we had, that's the kind of answer you provide. As I said, completely expected.

The first four quotes are for my amusement and to prove another part of what I said in my original post today. All things you've been right in your firm and superior views of football. You had more posts about this subject somewhere. You even concluded saying you wouldn't say anything else about it because people were picking on you. You said in other threads I won't look for. Admitting for their mistakes is a beautiful quality not many people have. Now putting the blame over other people, well, let's say this is the average reaction - but imo this average reaction isn't really very good, but that's only my opinion.

[iseah100 5,612]

I like him better with hair.

[Polo7 3,496]

I've only now just realised what an incredibly sad individual you are, but let's entertain this.

First of all I don't understand what the first four or so quotes have to do with his passing, and especially the balding comment but whatever.

Now the reason I asked for quotes is because this:

Does not equal average passer.

Here's some context: in the very same quote, which I believe is supposed to be the smoking gun, I said he is excellent at making through-balls. That's clearly not the trait of an average passer.

Fabregas, however, can be incredibly sloppy in possession at times which is what I was attempting to put across in that post. Fabregas has just come off a period of form where he gave the ball away cheaply a lot in games. I still stand by that comment that his general passing, especially when pressurised, leaves a lot to be desired.

So, me trying to convince people 'over and over' again that Fabregas is an 'average passer' has amounted to one actual post taken out of context and a few others that have nothing to do with anything. Pathetic.

You got shat on mate. How about not talking and saving yourself any more embarrassment.

[Styles 9,790]

I had fun doing it... and you gave me exactly the kind of response I expected. My biggest fun? I didn't remember in your posts you said we should revisit it in a few months or at the end of the season. PRI.CE.LESS.

You said his general passing isn't really good. If you want to say that isn't the same as saying average passer okay... It's semantics really. Average is something that isn't good or bad, just a 5 or 6. People called you on that, but back then when no one could be proved right or wrong about his career at Chelsea, you didn't try to correct anyone saying it was absurd for you to say he was good at something so difficult and not good in something so simple as passing in general. Back then you didn't try to make your post look like you weren't degrading his general pass, you stood by your own words and even challenged us to revisit the topic a few months later or at the end of the season. Now that we had, that's the kind of answer you provide. As I said, completely expected.

The first four quotes are for my amusement and to prove another part of what I said in my original post today. All things you've been right in your firm and superior views of football. You had more posts about this subject somewhere. You even concluded saying you wouldn't say anything else about it because people were picking on you. You said in other threads I won't look for. Admitting for their mistakes is a beautiful quality not many people have. Now putting the blame over other people, well, let's say this is the average reaction... I mean, not the bad or the really good, just the average.

Incomprehensible waffle like the vast majority of your posts.

If you want to me address something you just have to ask nicely; there really is no need for all the passive-aggressive posting that you do.

OK, not another peep out of me on Fabregas. We will revist this again in a few months/end of the season. I hope he proves me wrong.

Fabregas has proven me wrong for the most part just like I, er, hoped he would.

There are clearly some issues with the midfield still but Fabregas has had a largely successful season for the club.

I rarely even speak about Fabregas on here. I genuinely can't remember making a Fabregas related post recently, and I'm pretty sure I haven't posted in this thread that much either so I don't understand what the whole point of this is.

If you want to engage me in some sort of argument or whatever that's cool but please do better than this. This is pathetic, even for you.

[Styles 9,790]

You got shat on mate. How about not talking and saving yourself any more embarrassment.

Yeah man, I'm actually embarrassed for even having this silly back and forth.

Oh well, it's Sunday so that's my excuse.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

And no word about his performance yesterday, especially in helping to set up the goal while being put under pressure?

Don't forget that he ran his tits off. Impressive pressing, took up the slack from the lack of striker power.