Willian

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,919]

20 minutes ago, Vybzkartel said:

The common factor in those 2 premier league wins is actually Willian not staring. IN Conte's Chelsea Psdre started majority of the games. In the Mourinho title it was Schurrle who was starting most games. 

Come on now you and i both know Mourinho loved Willian nearly as much as he loved Ivanovic

 

He was a big part of both those squads.

[kc_blue 265]

1 hour ago, Robchels said:

 I don't disagree that willian should be sold and that Chelsea may be holding to him for too long. I am trying to understand what the clubs want with him... what he offers at the moment, what they want, and we don't want to lose.

Personally I feel like Willian flatters to deceive.  He has a great engine, great close control, he can carry the ball with relative ease.  The problem always seems to come when he gets to the final third.  At 30 and having played professionally for as long as he has, I would expect for him to have a better understanding of when to pass and when to drive past defenders and shoot.  It just seems to take him a second or two to make a decision and that's more then the split seconds usually afforded in real time to be successful.  I like Willian and yet he frustrates me almost more then any other player we have for this reason.  You look at him break away and you think here it comes, and just as quickly it's there it goes.  Again, and again, and again.  Not to mention his stop the ball and allow defenders to get into position specialty.  Sorry, I've gone off on a bit of a rant.

I think Barca see that he has good close control, he can resist pressure and carry the ball.  In there system, which I think is more possession based then what Sarri's was at Napoli and supposedly what we are working towards here, he's great for them.  He can hold the ball, control it in tight spaces and keep it circulating for them.  I honestly think he probably brings more to the table for Barca then he does us as I don't think we really want to just hold onto the ball.  We want to move it quickly forward and open up the defense with quick passes and movement rather then holding it and slowly probing.  Although that does describe the way we've been playing lately.  He just doesn't make quick enough decisions for a quick tempo attack in my mind.

All that being said, he's been playing for a long time and he's been part of Chelsea for a long time.  We have a coach who is at his highest profile job ever and has been here for 6 months and had really no preseason what to speak of with the team.  We are also known for not having patience with managers so I can understand his reluctance to let Willian leave while we're in a fight for 4th and having injuries left, right, and center.  It could very well be Sarri's job on the line and as much as we may want CHO to be starting every game or most of them the rest of the season I can kind of understand why Sarri would hedge on keeping the veteran Willian around.

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

I saw a comment on Reddit that made me re-examine Willian's potential transfer to Barcelona.  People are asking why they would want him, and others saying that Barca and Man Utd want him so he must be good enough.

I think it's about fit.  Barcelona already have goals in the team.  So, they don't need Willian to be a top provider for them, in that regard.  People are looking at his goals and assists and making judgements about Willian based on that, because we really need goals in this team.  From a defensive stand point, I really don't see much criticism.  In that match against City, I though he was really good.  Against teams like Southampton who want to park the bus and give us 70% of the ball...Willian's offensive ineptitude is front and centre.  

For a team like Barcelona, his goals and assists output wouldn't really matter.  They have Messi, Suarez, Dembele.  They are typically playing a 442 these days, and if Dembele is going to be a creator, the other winger had better have a defensive motor, and it would be nice to possibly chip in here and there which he can do.  When compared to the Dembeles and Hazards and Salahs, Willian looks poor.  Compared to guys like Arda Turan, he's pretty good.

[Henrique 9,133]

The team cannot afford to lose William. Simple as that, not because he is superb, but because at the moment the squad is so weak that William is an essential player.

[Fernando 6,463]

21 minutes ago, Henrique said:

The team cannot afford to lose William. Simple as that, not because he is superb, but because at the moment the squad is so weak that William is an essential player.

An essential player to do nothing?

CHO has offer more in late game then Willian. 

Playing him is like playing with one less player. 

[Costa19 858]

10 minutes ago, Henrique said:

The team cannot afford to lose William. Simple as that, not because he is superb, but because at the moment the squad is so weak that William is an essential player.

Yeah. Can't belive how people can be mad at Sarri for saying he don't wanna lose Willian. It's like people think we can compete with only Hazard and Pedro as wingers since CHO probably will go. And then even if CHO stays we can't survive on only 3 wingers. We need Willian.

[lucio 5,418]

10 minutes ago, Costa19 said:

Yeah. Can't belive how people can be mad at Sarri for saying he don't wanna lose Willian. It's like people think we can compete with only Hazard and Pedro as wingers since CHO probably will go. And then even if CHO stays we can't survive on only 3 wingers. We need Willian.

thats why malcolm was offerd in the deal. Rlc or barkley could also play on the wing at need. No reason why we couldn't buy another winger at short notice either.

[Henrique 9,133]

18 minutes ago, Fernando said:

An essential player to do nothing?

CHO has offer more in late game then Willian. 

Playing him is like playing with one less player. 

The only thing CHO offer right now is that he is a Chelsea player wanted by Bayern.

[Costa19 858]

1 minute ago, lucio said:

thats why malcolm was offerd in the deal. Rlc or barkley could also play on the wing at need. No reason why we couldn't buy another winger at short notice either.

Have you watched Malcom play last 6 months? I haven't since he only played like 97 minutes totally according to Transfermarkt. I understand why Sarri might be reluctant to that boy since we fighting for top four and already have a thin squad.*
RLC is injured for 1+ month.

[kc_blue 265]

16 minutes ago, Henrique said:

The only thing CHO offer right now is that he is a Chelsea player wanted by Bayern.

Can't really agree with this.  He has offered a different option to what we have been using on the wings most of the season.  I don't want to go overboard on him but in the past 2 games he's shown enough to continue to get minutes and deserve them.  

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

On ‎10‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 7:50 PM, eemanyooel said:

I can't comprehend who is more insane...Barca or Chelsea board?

Neither.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

23 hours ago, Fernando said:

Seriously? 

I don't want to watch any more of this. 

We are definitely run by idiots. 

Not a single established fact, and that's before we even attempt to understand what factors might influence the decision. None of us have any clue what, if anything, is going on yet so many know that the club is wrong and stupid and wicked. A strange thought process.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

23 hours ago, whats happening said:

it's like someone is purposefully fucking with us

Yes, but I wonder if you mean that in the same way I do.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

23 hours ago, Costa19 said:

I mean why would we accept Malcom + cash? It's not £50M in cash + Malcom but more likely £10-15M + Malcom. He is shit and haven't played much in Barcelona. We would weaken our already thin squad. 

Edit: If it were £50M straight up front then im sure we would accept it. 

I don't agree with your assessment of Malcolm but it's a breath of fresh air to read a post which shows signs of logic having been applied. Whatever happens has a reason for it. Almost always it's a reason we'd all agree with if only we knew the real situation.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

22 hours ago, kc_blue said:

Maybe they are rejecting the Malcom make weight and want more cash?  I'm really reaching here I know.

No you are not. You're assessing the 'information' available and, applying an actual thought process, you are asking, what, if anything, might really be going on here. I hope this approach catches on but I'm not hopeful.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

15 hours ago, Robchels said:

It's funny and all, but dismissing the little information and insight that we, supporters, have into the business does not make much sense to me.

The market is telling us something: we have one of the very top clubs making bids for a player that many here detest.

Maybe, just maybe, he's not such a horrible player? No, he hasn't been effective in the final third, but clubs (and big ones at that) clearly see value in whatever the fuck he does.

 

14 hours ago, Robchels said:

Yeah we prob know better, right?

money, coaches, agents, academy, who needs them!? they pay millions to these quacks while they could just ask question here on this forum... the specialists here would promptly answer and for free too! 

Thank you. Little by little my faith is being restored. We all lug these big heavy brains around with us, we might as well put them to use eh?

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

11 hours ago, Vesper said:

Dig deeper.

The offer was £5m plus Malcom. They said that equalled £50m for Willian. 

Bullshit. Malcom is worth (after a big fail) less than the £37.5m they paid for him. Lets say we reduce him by HALF the amount they are reducing Willian valuation (65m to 50m was the drop for him) so 7.5m drop for Malcom valuation

That makes Malcom worth £30m. So.... £30m value plus the £5m cash

Means they are only offering fucking £35m for a player (Willian) whom only 6 months ago they offered £65m cash!

£30m drop in real offer value v six months back! They trying to give us the Catalan bolloxing.

 

We don't know that this is the reality of course but at least it would explain the published stories without having to rely on the board being certifiable morons. This makes your scenario seem more likely to me. It also leaves room for negotiation. 

[Vesper 28,815]

2 hours ago, Costa19 said:

 We need Willian.