Are we going to finish in the top 4? - Achieved!

[samsemia 4]

I agree. Drogba said in an interview that when Mourinho put up his team selection, he'd fill in CECH - TERRY - MAKELELE - LAMPARD - DROGBA and say 'this is the spine', and then he'd put in the Riccys, Arjens and Tiagos.

We don't have that spine anymore. We don't have those leaders anymore, but we're getting there. We have Cech and Mata, and maybe even Luiz but there's a real lack of leaders which isn't surprising because we're a young team.

But this is where my frustration with Mikel arises from. How is it possible that a guy who has played so many games, over so many years and won so many trophies not grown into a leader in our team? When we talk about captains, does anyone ever raise his name? Think of the other people who have played that position - Makelele, Essien, Ballack, Wisey, Petit, Deschamps, Spackman.....

They were all MEN. We need MEN. We need leaders. When you look at the team now, I don't think you see those guys and it's why we've thrown away leads.

Because Mikel lacks character, that is what is separating him and the rest. He lacks motivation, endurance, and that pure passion that great players must have out on the pitch. He gives us that 1 in 5 games if we are lucky which is why i have pointed out countless times he should be a squad player at best next season if we are to truly challenge for anything.

[Jase 43,479]

Just to make matters interesting, Clattenburg returns to the Bridge this weekend.....

Premier League ‏@premierleague

Mark Clattenburg has been appointed referee for Chelsea v Swansea on 28/04/13.

[samsemia 4]

He will be pressured to be in our favor. Seen it all too many times.

[Styles 9,790]

I agree. Drogba said in an interview that when Mourinho put up his team selection, he'd fill in CECH - TERRY - MAKELELE - LAMPARD - DROGBA and say 'this is the spine', and then he'd put in the Riccys, Arjens and Tiagos.

We don't have that spine anymore. We don't have those leaders anymore, but we're getting there. We have Cech and Mata, and maybe even Luiz but there's a real lack of leaders which isn't surprising because we're a young team.

But this is where my frustration with Mikel arises from. How is it possible that a guy who has played so many games, over so many years and won so many trophies not grown into a leader in our team? When we talk about captains, does anyone ever raise his name? Think of the other people who have played that position - Makelele, Essien, Ballack, Wisey, Petit, Deschamps, Spackman.....

They were all MEN. We need MEN. We need leaders. When you look at the team now, I don't think you see those guys and it's why we've thrown away leads.

I don't see Mata as a 'spine' type of player. He's a luxury player that should be used according to match situations/opposition. He is far from a leader. He would get his minutes drastically cut by Mourinho if he returned and I would bet my life on that.

Mikel yesterday was constantly speaking to the referee and making himself a presence when Carragher and others were trying to bully the ref. He was giving it back and was the only player on our side doing so. He might not be a Ballack but he is far more of a leader than meek guys like Mata. You don't rate him as a player, which is absolutely fine, everybody is entitled to their opinion, but you do go to some extraordinary lengths to criticise him.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I don't see Mata as a 'spine' type of player. He's a luxury player that should be used according to match situations/opposition. He is far from a leader. He would get his minutes drastically cut by Mourinho if he returned and I would bet my life on that.

Mikel yesterday was constantly speaking to the referee and making himself a presence when Carragher and others were trying to bully the ref. He was giving it back and was the only player on our side doing so. He might not be a Ballack but he is far more of a leader than meek guys like Mata. You don't rate him as a player, which is absolutely fine, everybody is entitled to their opinion, but you do go to some extraordinary lengths to criticise him.

I see Mata as a 'spine' figure because I think he's become someone who has stepped up in tough games and lifted the players around him. I also included him in the spine of the team because he plays in the centre and is a nailed-on starter, and if we're talking about Mourinho teams then he's like Ozil in that sense. I wouldn't call Mata meek, but he's one of those guys who is a leader in our team simply because of the example he sets.

As for Mikel, I don't know if he was effectively talking to the ref but he went missing in the second-half (as did Ramires for the first 10 minutes). I don't rate him as a player and I don't rate him as a leader but I think you need to learn to read because I specifically compared him to the people who have played in HIS POSITION. That position requires a leadership and a sense of responsibility that he simply doesn't exhibit on a consistent basis. You go to some extraordinary lengths to disagree with me on things but at least try and understand what I'm saying.

[Leif 6,006]

Santiago is back BABY!!!

Santiago is gone BABY!!!

[Styles 9,790]

I see Mata as a 'spine' figure because I think he's become someone who has stepped up in tough games and lifted the players around him. I also included him in the spine of the team because he plays in the centre and is a nailed-on starter, and if we're talking about Mourinho teams then he's like Ozil in that sense. I wouldn't call Mata meek, but he's one of those guys who is a leader in our team simply because of the example he sets.

As for Mikel, I don't know if he was effectively talking to the ref but he went missing in the second-half (as did Ramires for the first 10 minutes). I don't rate him as a player and I don't rate him as a leader but I think you need to learn to read because I specifically compared him to the people who have played in HIS POSITION. That position requires a leadership and a sense of responsibility that he simply doesn't exhibit on a consistent basis. You go to some extraordinary lengths to disagree with me on things but at least try and understand what I'm saying.

Don't flatter yourself. It's a forum and I responded to a post.

Mikel might not be a leader in comparison to past midfielders but in this team he is one of the more vocal players and yesterday was case in point. He was the only one remonstrating to the ref for his decisions and the reckless tackles from Liverpool players. That's a leader in my eyes.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Don't flatter yourself. It's a forum and I responded to a post.

Mikel might not be a leader in comparison to past midfielders but in this team he is one of the more vocal players and yesterday was case in point. He was the only one remonstrating to the ref for his decisions and the reckless tackles from Liverpool players. That's a leader in my eyes.

Cech got involved too, but if you're happy to say that Mikel is a leader at Chelsea then you're getting the season you deserve.

Me, I think we're better than that and fortunately we seem to have players come through who are born leaders. Anyone who has played team sports knows what a leader is and Mikel ain't. He never was (attitude problems when he first came here) and sadly I don't think he ever will be.

He's a boy with phenomenal physique and good technical skills.

[Styles 9,790]

Cech got involved too, but if you're happy to say that Mikel is a leader at Chelsea then you're getting the season you deserve.

Me, I think we're better than that and fortunately we seem to have players come through who are born leaders. Anyone who has played team sports knows what a leader is and Mikel ain't. He never was (attitude problems when he first came here) and sadly I don't think he ever will be.

He's a boy with phenomenal physique and good technical skills.

Laughable.

Good day to you :tophat:

[The only place to be 11,313]

Laughable.

Good day to you :tophat:

Sorry, are you saying he didn't have attitude problems when he joined the club?

This is you all over - talk shit and then wander off when people get into specifics. Put me on ignore and I'll do the same for you.

[Styles 9,790]

Sorry, are you saying he didn't have attitude problems when he joined the club?

This is you all over - talk shit and then wander off when people get into specifics. Put me on ignore and I'll do the same for you.

Stop being so precious! What's wrong with you man? I'm not going to ignore you. We've debated perfectly well before. I have no issue with you whatsoever.

What specifics are you talking about? We've already addressed the 'attitude problems' nonsense in one of the Chalobah threads. He was late to training when he first joined the club. Big deal. Have you never been late in your life? It's an odd thing to hold against him after nearly 7 years since he joined the club.

[bushman 2,043]

Sorry, are you saying he didn't have attitude problems when he joined the club?

This is you all over - talk shit and then wander off when people get into specifics. Put me on ignore and I'll do the same for you.

Excuse me but is there anyone left here who wants to argue with you?

We all have different opinions, value players differently, you seem to not accept that, why ?

Personally, I also do not think Mata is or should be Chelsea´s leader.

[robsblubot 3,595]

Interesting discussion about Mata and Mikel.

I don't rate Mikel and it isn't because of his attitude, or the lack thereof, but because of his technique, or lack thereof. He's not a terrible player, but he's got deficiencies that make him not good enough at this level. The other top clubs have better options there (except Arsenal because they don't like defending).

Now Mata is even more interesting... prime for discussing. I don't like him that much when he plays centralized like he did yesterday, and am unsure whether I really want him tracking back. He's a terrible marker (like Hazard), but can cross the ball like few others, so I see him more of a forwarder than a midfielder. Therefore, I like him far more on the wing than in the center.

Perhaps our problems are more obvious, say numbers? We just don't have enough players committed to defending at a given time, especially against the top sides. Not sure it's so much about leadership, but more about the lack of steel (same thing?).

[kc_blue 265]

We really don't make things easy for ourselves do we? I think Clattenburg reffing will actually be a benefit for us in the game this weekend. I think the result yesterday just means we no longer have room for error in the final 5 games. Still, if the team stands up and plays the way they can we should still pull out a top 4 finish, probably top 3. Have faith.

[Ollie 4,400]

If we came top 4 and Arsenal come 5th, my happiness will be just as much, if not better than when we won the UCL last season. Must say though my relief would be so high if we do get top 4, it's been a tormentful (New word?) season. And it looked so good after the game at WHL didn't it. Never thought it could go so wrong, i was on cloud 9 after that game, paradise.

[Tomo 21,751]

Just a thought, if we kept Robbie and had the exact same results, would we have accepted that this was a season of transition and what has happened is the best we could have hoped for? I think were that blinded by hate to Benitez we are trying to make out this season has been worse than it actually has been.

Ok Rafa hasn't done himself any favours at times, but reducing the average age of the squad as much as we did was only going to lead to the inconsistent results we have suffered this term.

Maybe we could have done better in some of the cups, but im afraid we have done as good as we could have in the league.

We must prioritize experienced heads this summer, in centre back, midfield and forward.

[Beepu 1,714]

Santiago is back BABY!!!

And Bar Suarez's actions yesterday, we were basically inviting Liverpool on our half the entire last 20 minutes. Our defending was atrocious and we should have put Moses and and left Hazard to cause more problems. Why Torres started is the most illogical consumption I have ever crossed. Are we saving Ba for Thursday FFS?

Well done Torres for bottling it yet again whist better strikers like Sturridge played a huge part. A nice beautiful slap across the face of our boards.

Why on earth would anyone whose banned, come back with another different name that is so obvious and reveal his past identity in which would result in another ban.

[chelseathebest 150]

Some of you say we are only Schurrle and Loanees away from being title contenders.

Tbh, I think that's way too optimistic.

We have some serious problems in our squad. As already stated, we lack leadership. We also lack a few quality players (on certain positions) that are ready to step up the minute they arrive at the Stamford Bridge.

We have a horrible style of play. In attack we have no idea, we just pass the ball to Mazacar and then they do that stupid tika-taka and lose the ball (most of the times).

I also believe that some players like Oscar and Moses are not at the required level.

Oscar is awful at the wings, we should probably try him out at CM. But position is not his only problem. I noticed that he makes mistakes way too often and sometimes he can't pass the ball properly in the easiest situations. He also fails in dribbling most of the times.

He shows signs of his incredible talent every now and then though.

Moses, on the other hand, is useless and brings nothing to our team. Ok, he does some good defending, but in offensive aspect of the game he is a total waste. His decision making is terrible. I know he's young but I doubt he'll ever be a class player.

Furthermore, our bench is so sad. It's so fucking frustrating to see that ugly Benayoun and hopeless Torres on the bench. It'd be sad for any club to have them, let alone a top club like Chelsea.

Then we have Marin. Yeah, I agree he did not play much, but he is certainly not a Chelsea level.

As for Loanees, I believe we have only two who deserved a shot in the first team - Lukaku and KDB.

Lukaku could be a solid striker, but he is definitely not at the first choice striker level yet. So we only have him and Demba (assuming that we get rid of Torres). That doesn't sound like title contender to me, not at all.

In respect of wings, I believe Hazard is a good choice for that position, but he is the only one. Moses, Marin, Oscar - they all are useless on wings. So we also need a winger. I am really happy to hear that Schurrle is probably on his way here. He's definitely better than the three mentioned previously.

Continuing, we also lack a CM. Not really sure about that, but I believe that KDB could be ready to take that spot.

Just look at Bayern. They have a perfect squad, yet they buy Gotze.

Our squad is far from perfect and you think that we are only Loanees away from being a title contenders.

Nah bro, atm we are miles away from that.

Summer transfer window will be crucial for the next season. I hope our Board doesn't do stupid like last time. But even with a few good signings and a proper manager we can hardly be a title contenders next season.

PS. Sorry if I missed the topic.

[Laylabelle 9,536]

Thing is Man U didnt buy many players...but the signings they made espically Van Persie made a whole lot of difference!They've added in ways that have strengthend the team whereas some of ours have been just weird money money signings...

[Bosnian Blue 2,471]

Just a thought, if we kept Robbie and had the exact same results, would we have accepted that this was a season of transition and what has happened is the best we could have hoped for? I think were that blinded by hate to Benitez we are trying to make out this season has been worse than it actually has been.

I can answer you that immediately, as for me: no. Explained many times why I think so.

But on the other hand, I'm absolutely convinced we'd have done better under Robbie, both in cups and in the league.